solid roller

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o1heavy

1974 dart sport
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has any prepped there la engine for a roller cam themselves
thinking of going to a roller cam
looking for people that have and there experience was it worth and difficulty level
 
Your going to have to open up the push rod hole in order to get the push rods in there. To make you life easier I suggest you use a 1.6 ratio adjustable rocker and a smaller cam (will create the effect of a bigger cam with 1.5 ratio rocker arms). To might also need to have the lifter bores bushed. Also which ever cam you use make double sure it has a cast iron intergrated gear and a harden intermediate shaft, otherwise you'll be ripping the motor back apart and redoing the motor again
 
Brian at IMM sells drop in Solid Roller Lifters made to his specs. No need for Bushing the block or grinding. I am using 3/8 Push Rods with RHS LA Heads and I did not need to open up the Push Rod hole at all. Stock Heads with 3/8 Push Rods I am sure you would need to Hog out the push rod holes. 5/16 Push Rods IDK..........
 
I will only run a solid roller in a bushed block. It's the only way IMO to do it right and actually have a safe, 100% result. In a small block it's easy. Bush the block, clearance the tie bars or get the ones that don't need it, run the bronze oil pump drive or run a cam with a standard iron gear, and the rest is basic assembly.
 
I will only run a solid roller in a bushed block. It's the only way IMO to do it right and actually have a safe, 100% result. In a small block it's easy. Bush the block, clearance the tie bars or get the ones that don't need it, run the bronze oil pump drive or run a cam with a standard iron gear, and the rest is basic assembly.

I had some lifter bushings and sold them about 6 mos ago, think I paid $140.00 for them. What is the average cost to have them installed, clearance'd and the oiling holes put in them? I had a shop quote me $650.00? What is the cost were you are at?
 
Last time it was $500 but honestly I don;t do a lot of solid rollers. That was a couple years ago. The bushings themselves were $50. The work is still done on a Rottler F68A and the labor was $450.
 
Last time it was $500 but honestly I don;t do a lot of solid rollers. That was a couple years ago. The bushings themselves were $50. The work is still done on a Rottler F68A and the labor was $450.

The only company I could find was Chenoweth Racing that carried the Lifter Bushings. Do you remember where you got yours at? Now I can't even find the link to chenoweth's parts site.
 
I didn't get them, the shop did. They were undrilled, they drilled the .035" holes. I have no clue where they came from...lol. I can call and get current pricing and maybe the source tomorrow if you want.
 
morrel solid lifters pretty much drop in with the exception being boogered casting in the valley, they dont have the direct oiling but will go some yrs before they need changing and cost lil replace,

The push rod holes have to be enlarged toward the exh side.ime
 
I tubed my block and run a comp 8043 lifter that needs no clearancing.

828's on left - 8043's on right


_DJV9055.jpg
 
I tubed my block and run a comp 8043 lifter that needs no clearancing.

828's on left - 8043's on right


_DJV9055.jpg

My lifters look like the one on the left (I did not tube the block). I spent about 5 hours in the valley with a grinder....grind some, test fit....grind some, test fit.....over and over. When all was said and done, I should have just paid a few more dollars for the drop in style lifters. I did NOT have to enlarge the push rod holes (with 1.5 rockers).

I am very happy that I switched to a solid roller though. The throttle response and power are unreal!
 
Use the 828 and have to grind the block a little, keep it under .420 lobe lift and you should be fine.
 
Its clear that some would rather drop a few hundred more than do a lil grinding.lol

morrels have a lil recessed band with oiling hole to drip the roller pin, but not like the dumb bells the comp 8403/old 273 lifters have..they might HAVE to necessitate a bushed lifter bore so that the oil grove/dumbbell is not exposed 'oil psi bleed off'
 

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Not in my case. I bush for two reasons:
1. If a valvetrain part fails (which is more common with solid rollers - even street rollers) the lifter is easilly forced out of the lifter bore which causes oil pressure loss to the lower end. You cannot shut the engine down fast enough to prevent lower end damage and this is true in big and small blocks. Tubing both lifter gallies will prevent that loss but will not improve the machining accuracy, which is the second reason.
2. It corrects the orientation between the cam and the lifter. It is as common for the lifter bores to be machined a little of as it is deck surface, valve installed hieght, and pretty much any factory machining operation. Bushing, when done properly with the right fixture, blueprints the lifter bore angle which results in a much more stable valvetrain, and a little more power depending how far off things were. That means longer lifter life before rebuilding, less stress on pushrods and rockers, and general happiness.

I've never had to grind more than a few seconds for each pair of 828s but some blocks I know are bad for it and I'm told the R blocks are almost impossible to hand grind without breaking thru. My feeling is anyone spending the dollars for a solid roller equpped engine wants maximum benefit and minimum risk and is not unable to commit to the extra cost of bushing. The additional valvetrain parts will add $400-600 dollars more above the cost of a flat tappet engine. While I believe there are various ways to get it running with a solid roller, there is only one way to do it right. The second best is the tubes in both gallies. At least then it's safe.
 
Dave - you tube the one side and then plug the other side - with a set screw .

the reason for tubing it is to get the oil to go direct to the mains, but the lifters see no oil if you block the other side.

This is well documented in any of the Mopar Engine manuals.


I agree with getting the lifter angles correct - however - you can have them checked for accuracy and save bushing the block if unneeded.
 
I don't tube any of them...lol.
I agree the reason the manuals mention tubing is to try to get priority oiling to the mains. At least the books I've got going back to '78. In that case, not losing oil pressure to the bottom should a failure occur is a side affect of tubing.

I'm defending my position, which is the priority and reason for doing it is not to get all oil to the mains, but to keep oil to the mains should something happen. For me, the redirected oil is a side affect. Not the driving force.
Again, correction is "if needed" only if you ignore the safety issue.
I look at it as safety first. If it helps to understand my position... I've had friend experience this and I've seen it first hand. The priority oil to the mains is needed for high rpm, wide clearance, endurance type engines. The loss of oil pressure due to failure can occur in a 100% street cruiser at low rpm should a rocker break.
 
i dont think you understand that tubing and bushing do the same thing - that is to eliminate all oil from the lifter bores, therefore eliminating the chance of a loss of oil pressure.
 
I think the wording difference here is tube the galley, bush the lifter bores?
 
That and the mains are fed from the lifter galley directly. Not a redirect. .
 
Its clear that some would rather drop a few hundred more than do a lil grinding.lol

morrels have a lil recessed band with oiling hole to drip the roller pin, but not like the dumb bells the comp 8403/old 273 lifters have..they might HAVE to necessitate a bushed lifter bore so that the oil grove/dumbbell is not exposed 'oil psi bleed off'

Never knew about the Morrels until this day. Where did you get those at?
Linkeeeeeeeee??
 
i dont think you understand that tubing and bushing do the same thing - that is to eliminate all oil from the lifter bores, therefore eliminating the chance of a loss of oil pressure.

Thanks Dave. I believe I understand it just fine I'm just not communicating things well enough.
They do not do the same things. Emphasis on plural "S". Similar, yes. Not the same. Tubing both, or tubing/blocking cuts off all oil to the lifter bores. That is a mod that in my experience is for endurance or high rpm drag racing engines. It is not a good mod for an engine that will be expected to idle constantly. You are correct in believing that solid bushings will also do this in exactly the same way.
However, I don't use solid bushings. I use drilled ones. They provide pressurized but metered oil to the lifter bores regardless of whether or not the lifter is in that bore. This keeps the bushing and lifter service life longer, and allows for more oil to the axle of the roller during times of idling. Remember that rollers dont rotate. With no oil, the same spots are withstanding the most pressure for the entire life of the engine. Teh oil hole means constant oil to those areas. I also typically use tighter bearing clearances with lower oil pressure overall so there's not as much oil splashing around at low rpms. This is why I believe bushings control oil better and for a street engine especially. I dont want all the pressure fed oil cut off. I want it controlled regardless of the lifter's position in the bore. It's my opinion and been my experience that an endurance engine that is not expected to idle is fine having the oil supply cut off. Same thing with drag racing engines. This is exactly what the engine manulas talk about. However when they were written, solid rollers were not for street applications.
Hope I explained myself better there. Sorry if I am not.
 
The only company I could find was Chenoweth Racing that carried the Lifter Bushings. Do you remember where you got yours at? Now I can't even find the link to chenoweth's parts site.

Chenoweth is still building engines and selling parts, just not through the website. Their new phone number is (309) 266-5390.
 
Dave - lol...

you can drill the tube out just the same as a bushing - they are two different roads that can - CAN - get you to the same address...

whichever you choose - ie the drilled addy or the non drilled addy.
 
Never knew about the Morrels until this day. Where did you get those at?
Linkeeeeeeeee??

really??

i guess it has been a while since ive done anything with my 410 thread.LOL

I bought them from HERBERTCAMS.COM they spoke highly of them stating that they were a better buy and would last longer than the regular comp stuff with the exception of the direct oiling version. They also stated that morrel actually makes the roller lifter for other labels 'like lunati' and some other..

So basically, if you want to spend 600-800...then buy the comp direct oiling style on the low end...or isky direct oiling w/bushed rollers on the high side.

If i were to buy high end...i would be shinning the comps and buying the isky's....but since im not building a high dollar 410...and also wont be driving it daily...im good with the morrels that will last me 5 or so yrs and only cost $280.

you know me... i dont spend the big bucks...but i DO look into sht real good and buy/use what will actually work and not fall apart next week, no matter what others say about it...lol...ive already debunked quite a few fairy tales told by others.


hope u and urs have a merry christmas. :cheers:

ps, the scorpions look interesting too, but if they are the same design as the morrels...ill just buy the morrels which have been around for many yrs, have a good rep, and cost less.
 
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