Solid Rollers on a Hydraulic Grind Cam

[dirty white boy]

interesting read...

 

[yellow rose]

If going from a hydraulic roller to a solid roller will he need to do any oiling mods? I thought there was something about a length of tubing crossing from 1 bank to the other in the lifter valley...Edit...or maybe that's for the front main oiling.

Any time you are running a solid lifter the oil to the lifters should be restricted. It's easy to ream the passenger side oil gallery and the block off the oil to the drivers side. Even if you want to run a hydraulic lifter you can drill a 1/16 hole in the tube and restrict oil to the other side.

 

[mullinax95]

Any time you are running a solid lifter the oil to the lifters should be restricted. It's easy to ream the passenger side oil gallery and the block off the oil to the drivers side. Even if you want to run a hydraulic lifter you can drill a 1/16 hole in the tube and restrict oil to the other side.

What would need to be done in the same case scenario with a Magnum engine.
How would oil get to the rockers I guess is what I'm asking?

 

[famous bob]

interesting read...

^^^^^^^^^^
VERY! Are all of the "mrl" lifters Bamm? And do all of them have the smaller wheel ?

 

[Wyrmrider]

And do all of them have the smaller wheel ?
evidently and someone is looking into this
Dodger game last night produced this compendium of comp cam hyd lobes in the 274-276 duration at .006 range both HFT and HR and their listed intensities

5239 276-3 228 140 .3160 Magnum .842 MI 25.7 (12.3/13.4)

5213 276-4 226 136 .3090 Magnum .842

5039 275 223 134 .316 Thumper

5068 276 229 140 .312 Nostalga .842 MI 24.0 (11.6/12.4) same as Purple Plus

Race .842 MI 25.8 (12.9/12.9)

5435 274 230 140 .303 Extreme Energy .842 MI 22.9 (11.1/11.8

5087 274 230 143 .336 XFI .842 MI 23.1 (11.2/11.9)

5964 275 231 149 .350 Extreme Mopar MI 23.1 (11.2/11.9)


X4X4 .904 MI 23.5 (11.3/12.2) softer off seat than XFI

3051 274 220 134 .3200 HE HR MI 28.7 (13.8/14.9) low lift

3109 276 220 138 .3400 HE HR MI 28.7 (13.8/14.9) high lift

3028 275 219 134 .335 Thumper HR MI 29.7 (14.7/15.0)

3314 276 224 145 .335 XE HR small MI 27.1 (13.4/13.7) CRC go slightly inverse

3192 276 224 152 .378 XE HR SBC not for small Journal Buick etc takes more spring
3344 276 224 136 .300 XE HR BBC/Mopar min MI 27.1 (13.4/13.7)

3307 273 224 141 .316 X4X4 HR MI 25.9(12.7/13.2)

3015 274 224 149 .358 XFI HR MI 26.6 (13.1/13.5

13444 275 223 144 .381 QXI HL HR MI 27.4 (13.4/14.0)

13202 274 219 138 .344 HUC marine HL HR MI 28.7 (13.9/14.8

13742 276 221 138 .351 HLO HR big spring required MI 28.4 (14.0/14.4)
You can see that most are designed for SBC but some fit BBC/MOPAR and larger base circles
I did not include any LX or Ford only profiles

 

[Wyrmrider]

Some mentioned that the comp 274 was lacking in low end for their build but ran good mid and up top
here are some suggestions starting with 10 degree less seat duration but trying to maintain similar at 200
some catalog grinds and some .904 lobes where you can spec your own exhaust lobe and LCA
Lift Lobe seat .050 .200 LCA and icl (not all info is available for all vendors)

(seat durations not adjusted) .050 and .200 will look bigger to the engine at the valve with higher ratio rocker

.535/525 265/273 218/226 138/ @200 110/106 LA 1800-5600 1.6 intake rocker

540/506 267/267 220/220 140 / 108/104 smallest H .904 shelf cam 1500-5400 wants headers } 1.6 intake rocker

.522 268 330 136 Bullet CTA 1.6 intake rocker

.445/465 269/277 215/223 112/108 H720031-12 Howard .842 universal profile 1.5 rocker

.513 0.342 269 222 142 HM2223423A .904 HM is Howard 1.5 rocker

.542/ 1.6 .269 222 142 HM2223423A .904 HM is Howard with 1.6 rocker

.528/513 271/279 226/234 110/106 1800-6200 2400 stall Lunati Voodoo 1.6 intake rocker

.553/543 271/281 224/234 112/108 Howard with 1.6 intake rocker

.525 .350 273 226 147 HM2263500 with 1.5 rocker

.560 .350 273 226 147 HM2263500 with 1.6 rocker

.538/534 274/282 224/230 149/154 110/106 XR274HR-10 MI 26.6(13.1/13.5) XE retro fit 6 38 49 1 (7) Comp HR
.525/525 275/287 231/237 149/ 110 comp XE275HL 2000-6000 smallest comp .904 HL grind
Bullet and Lunati have masters at roughly 2 degree intervals and Howard has a bunch

 

[BigBlockMopar]

could you gut the hydros and put in a spacer under the circlip to make it a solid? would have to be pretty accurate..if you or your bro were a machinist. I had a few solids that had a circlip. didnt know why they had it as I have had others that were 1 piece.

I've done just that on my recently built 360.
Some of the crap hydraulic lifters were collapsing, a couple during idling, some collapsed during some sustained higher rpm revving.

Got sick and tired of it (same happened year ago on a bigblock built) and made spacers from simple tubing with I put under the internal piston in the lifter.
'Soft' iron tubing means the material will compress some during operation, so prepared to adjust the valves about every week for the first month orso. Proper metal would be stainless steel which is tougher and will resist the light hammering of the valve lash better.

 

[nm9stheham]

^^^ Very interesting....

 

[lomchivok]

could you gut the hydros and put in a spacer under the circlip to make it a solid? would have to be pretty accurate..if you or your bro were a machinist. I had a few solids that had a circlip. didnt know why they had it as I have had others that were 1 piece.

My experience with the link bar lifters...hughes retro anyway...is that the rivet for the link bar is in the way and stops removal of the lifter guts. I was gonna make a setup lifter out of one but couldn't get it apart without destroying the rivet.

 

[pishta]

My experience with the link bar lifters...hughes retro anyway...is that the rivet for the link bar is in the way and stops removal of the lifter guts. I was gonna make a setup lifter out of one but couldn't get it apart without destroying the rivet.

^^ good to know.

 

[67Dart273]

.535/525 265/273 218/226 138/ @200 110/106 LA 1800-5600 1.6 intake rocker540/506 267/267 220/220 140 / 108/104 smallest H .904 shelf cam 1500-5400 wants headers } 1.6 intake rocker.522 268 330 136 Bullet CTA 1.6 intake rocker.445/465 269/277 215/223 112/108 H720031-12 Howard .842 universal profile 1.5 rocker.513 0.342 269 222 142 HM2223423A .904 HM is Howard 1.5 rocker.542/ 1.6 .269 222 142 HM2223423A .904 HM is Howard with 1.6 rocker.528/513 271/279 226/234 110/106 1800-6200 2400 stall Lunati Voodoo 1.6 intake rocker.553/543 271/281 224/234 112/108 Howard with 1.6 intake rocker.525 .350 273 226 147 HM2263500 with 1.5 rocker.560 .350 273 226 147 HM2263500 with 1.6 rocker.538/534 274/282 224/230 149/154 110/106 XR274HR-10 MI 26.6(13.1/13.5) XE retro fit 6 38 49 1 (7) Comp HR.525/525 275/287 231/237 149/ 110 comp XE275HL 2000-6000 smallest comp .904 HL grind
Bullet and Lunati have masters at roughly 2 degree intervals and Howard has a bunch

I wish to hell I had any idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure YOU know but this is what my mind sees and hears trying to read this ifo

 

[famous bob]

I wish to hell I had any idea what you are trying to say. I'm sure YOU know but this is what my mind sees and hears trying to read this ifo

Same here, I skipped it !

 

[Wyrmrider]

unfortunately the forum software reformats posts
just a simple list sorted by duration @.006 of available cams shorter that those being discussed and with more lift/area- for those that do not want to give up their low end like one of the posters
The two cams being discussed are at the bottom
if that's you just copy into a word file. reformat to line it up pretty and print it
or PM me and I'll send you an e-mail
I do see where you tried to include in a reply it got really bad
hate it when that happens

 

[Mopar Tech]

I have worked as a cam guy in this area and I'd say to wymrrider. Quit posting a bunch of numbers that mean little to nothing.I know you really are trying to help but..... you make my head hurt and I skip your replys. I'm sorry as I know you really mean well. The engine is far to dumb and the numbers are close to junk. Contact your favorite cam grinder with all your needs and move on. There are very few magic cams just some better than others.

 

[stumblinhorse]

I am still not sure why that xr274hr cam is so much more aggressive than the Xe275hl. I get that a roller can be more aggressive ramps, but not sure what make it troublesome. Especially since comp makes a xr280, xr286 and xr292! I am really trying to find a 224-226/230-232 roller for my build. One that should give trouble free break in.

 

[Mopar Tech]

I am still not sure why that xr274hr cam is so much more aggressive than the Xe275hl. I get that a roller can be more aggressive ramps, but not sure what make it troublesome. Especially since comp makes a xr280, xr286 and xr292! I am really trying to find a 224-226/230-232 roller for my build. One that should give trouble free break in.

A hyd roller should not give any break in problems. If your not looking for max HP they are ok.

 

[GeorgeH]

I've done just that on my recently built 360.
Some of the crap hydraulic lifters were collapsing, a couple during idling, some collapsed during some sustained higher rpm revving.

Got sick and tired of it (same happened year ago on a bigblock built) and made spacers from simple tubing with I put under the internal piston in the lifter.
'Soft' iron tubing means the material will compress some during operation, so prepared to adjust the valves about every week for the first month orso. Proper metal would be stainless steel which is tougher and will resist the light hammering of the valve lash better.

Used to do this Harley stock roller lifters. S&S Cycle sold a kit with the pieces to do it. You set them up with normal lash. It just didn't let the lifters bottom out. Worked well once you started getting past .550 lift and 175lbs. on the seat.

 

[Wyrmrider]

Most cam guys do not understand long rod motors
some do for sprint cars but not on the street
they give MOPAR builds SBC grinds
and/or SBC timing, intake close, overlap
which leaves performance on the table
If you want to DIY or double check advice from the tech line get the Controlled Induction Software- it will get you close- very close
I've worked on lots of 4x4 chevys with 6" rods and a couple of 4x4 Mopars and even there they are not the same.
383 chevy vs 383 mopar- classic case where you can get really led wrong
on that Comp HR notice that it is slower off the seat than the HFT and has to make up for it later. Small .700 roller does not help as they can't give it too much early acceleration without going over on the side loading.