Some paint questions for the guys who know paint

[alleyoopmgv]

It isn't the body, I work it until it's straight as a die, it's the clear, most people I've talked to get the dreaded Urethane Wave, even when you flow coat. Not really on hoods and other flat areas where I guess it can flow out better. What type of clear do you use? I use Dupont Chroma Premier, very high solids I guess, probably a contributing factor

Yeah, I know what your talking about. I used to get them years ago. But I haven't for years now, and it's because how I have changed my way of prepping and painting. I know it's a lot of work, but if you do what I do, you wont get the dreaded Urethane Wave.

I use PPG products. My clear of choice is DCU 2021, and that is a high solids clear also.

I hope this helps!

 

[Rob]

Thanks, it's pretty much the way I do it too but I'll follow it to the letter next time, although I use mostly Dupont.

Dupont Epoxy primer

Slicksand poly primer - 1 session usually so I'll bump it up 1

Omni high build, works well and it's cheap - usually 3 sessions

I don't usually use a sealer but the one I'm working on now I'm using a tinted primer at the end, not happy with base coverage

I was just at a car show and saw a great 57 Chev, all new Corvette running gear and suspension, 3200 hour build and it had the Urethane Wave too :munky2:

 

[rednesss]

Your paint gun of choice has a tremendous amount to do with how the clears lay down. Nothing substitutes for a trained hand though. I've been a Sata fan for years, but am starting to love the Iwata 400 and starting to forget about those guys from Germany.

 

[Rob]

Your paint gun of choice has a tremendous amount to do with how the clears lay down. Nothing substitutes for a trained hand though. I've been a Sata fan for years, but am starting to love the Iwata 400 and starting to forget about those guys from Germany.

I use a Sata RP for clear and the Iwata LPH 400 with the orange cap for base. I have the silver cap for clear but I prefer my RP, probably because I've had it longer so I'm more used to it. May have to play around a bit more with the Iwata

 

[daves66valiant]

I'm using the orange cap too for base. The silver cap for clear. The urethane wave that I've been getting is very very slight when I nail it good. Blocks out really easy but wish I could skip this step.

Do you guys add any reducer? 5-10% to get it to flow out more. Doubt it would help much I bet it's more a matter of technique, gun setup, equipment and environment.
Wish I had better technique but teaching myself makes it hard. Just glad I have good tools which has been the differnece maker for me. I'm using a SPI clear which is a very high solids clear. I love spraying it.

I bet you'll like the Iwata the more you use it for clear. I hear the RP is a hoser. The wave is more of a material thickness problem from what I read.
I'm not that fast to use the Sata.

Redness and Rob: Which tip do you use for your Iwata for clear?

Here's a pretty good read when I found a while back
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/urethane-peel-why-we-get-oem-doesnt-74323.html

 

[Rob]

I use the silver cap for clear Dave but I only used it once, didn't like it and switched back to my RP. Now in fairness I need to play with it, I was spraying a complete and didn't figure that was the time to experiment. Before I spray the one I'm working on now I will play with some test panels to see if I can get it dialed in.

Yeah, you can hose it on pretty good with the Sata but it comes out like glass, no OP at all, I mean NONE but there is some wave, not a ton but if you're a picky SOB like me, any is too much.

 

[daves66valiant]

I agree with you. I'm picky too. This is what I've done so far. You can see little bit of wave in these pics. I'm striving for perfection but don't have enough time behind the trigger yet.

First practice panel

Second try with clear on flat panels. Probably hard to tell in the pics, but my second try was better. OF course you can see some of the dust that landed in my clear. Nothing too bad.

 

[Rob]

Looks very good Dave. Unfortunately dust is always an issue, especially for us doing this at home. It's easy enough to sand out usually but sometimes you get the big particles that make a crater, that always chokes me :munky2:

I restored this Camaro for my daughter and you don't see much wave in it but you do see some if you sight down the side and do the bob and weave with your head, more so in person than the picture. It isn't bad at all but I want flawless damnit :-D

 

[Dusterdude72]

I think im going to go single stage acrylic enamel paint and plum crazy purple. Ill get good paint and Ill use the wet look hardener and fisheye remover to get a nice clean paint job out of the deal....I want a clean shiny finish to it but I want to stay true to the area of the car when single stage is what was ran. you can make single stage shine up good and save alot of moey in the process.

 

[Dusterdude72]

Bump

 

[Rob]

Don't use enamel, if you want to go single stage, use Urethane, it's a much better, more durable paint. If there's any metallic in the plum crazy color you should seriously consider base/clear. You can't color sand single stage metallics so what you shoot is what you get.

 

[Dusterdude72]

I have always gone by the old school painting methods and I have color sanded metallic paints before with no problem.....the old method of misting your metallics in the gloss coat to keep it evenly distributed in case of any mistakes. Why do you say urethane over enamel? enamel has more of an eggshell finish too it and is what was used back when. not trying to second guess you here.....I am just saying that I havnt had any problems painting the old school way.

 

[Rob]

Very few people use enamel anymore, the newer Urethane SS paints are just far more durable. Not all new technology is bad. I wouldn't call enamel an eggshell finish, it's as shiney as anything else out there

I painted this Jeep in enamel a long time ago, doesn't look like eggshell to me?

 

[Dusterdude72]

no no no ...I didnt mean eggshell in texture or shine I meant in strength....enamel hardens up nice is what I meant,where as the urethane always has somewhat of a softness to it....the color I am going with is plum crazy purple and it doesnt have alot of metallic to it...not like metal flake or anything,just a little fine grains of metallic. I don't think there should be any problems wet sanding it and buffing it. I just wanted to see everyones opinions on it. back in the day cars were painted with single stage all the time and they shined up great...all depends on how well the job was. by the way good job on that jeep...looks pretty tough.

 

[Rob]

The Jeep was fun, wish I still had it.

Really all I'm saying is Enamel doesn't hold up as well as Urethane which is why most people have switched. Just like most people now use Epoxy primer not Etching primer, just better technology.

 

[clifftt]

$90 per gallon sounds awful cheap, the primer I use cost more than that. I would be leery of it's quality and how long it will last. The old saying of you get what you pay for comes in mind. I would use it if I was throwing together a quick driver but not a car that I care about or investing a lot of time and money into.

I also agree with the others in that this is not the time or area to take short cuts, you will regret it down the road when you have to start over.

If you are spraying a metallic paint, base/clear is the way to go. Single stage urethane is fine for a solid color because you can color sand and buff it with out issues. If you are on a budget then you can spray the trunk and engine compartment with single stage then spray the body with base/clear.

The single stage paint you're thinking of buying may be able to be color sanded and buffed but that is the paint, most paint can be color sanded and buffed once it is cured, you will still get blotching and discoloration when you are done. Metallic lays on the surface of the paint and when you color sand the paint you will cut into the metallic and cause it to look blotchy and if you try and sand out a run, the run will still appear even when the surface is smooth.

Don't know if I could have said it any better. When someone walks up to your car, it's the color and paint that first attracts, otherwise you just walk past it. If you skimp now, you'll regret it later. I used two-stage Sikkens. A gallon of base, sprayed with three coats of color covered the whole exterior and under the hood. I did not spray the undercarriage or interior floors. I still have enough left to spray the dash and some interior trim. It wasn't cheap, but we're talking a difference of a few hundred dollars, not thousands....

 

[Dusterdude72]

thanks for all the advice guys....I ended up starting a different thread somewhere else about my choice of paint because It wouldnt show me this thread for some reason lol....anyhow, I have decided to go basecoat clear coat, I am going to use dupon chromabase paint....if you look up the threads I have through my profile you will find the thread I am talking about and you can see a full list of details of what exactly I plan on using...thanks for all the input,tips and advice guys....appreciate the help