Starter Problems(again)

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NSdartSW

NSdartSW

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I was here looking for help with my starter like 2 weeks ago but I’ve ran into more problems yet again. Last time I had the wrong flex plate for what I’m doing, it’s a ‘72 J head 360 with a 904 in a ‘66 Dart. I got the proper flex plate for the 904 and the bushing for the converter and crank recess difference. My Dad and I got everything pulled out reinstalled and together fairly easily in a day with some minor hiccups but we got it sorted. Now when I hit the key I, again, don’t get my engine cranking over but what almost sounds like a grinding noise. I’m not sure how to describe it well I’ve never been good at stuff like that but it’s definitely different from the noises I got with the wrong flex plate. I tried hitting the starter and solenoid and that again didn’t change anything. My Dad and I have tapped out our knowledge and I need help I’m at a lost. Any helped is much appreciated, thank you in advance.
 
Gonna need pictures, part numbers, video, etc to really help. Help us help you.
 
I have the B&M10239 it’s a stock 904 and converter and a remanned starter from O’Reillys.

That should be a video of it, for being in college I’m honestly not very tech savvy so sorry.
Is there anything else you could need?
 
That’s not a flexplate/converter problem. That sounds more like a dead battery, bad starter solenoid, or bad starter relay type of clicking to me.
 
That’s what I thought I thought flat battery but it read 12.5. So pretty much it’s replace those or is there something else I could to work it out before spending more money.
 
put a volt meter on the battery while turning the key. My bet is it drops to 5-6V.

If it drops like that charge the battery over night

If it was the starter not engaging the flex plate you should hear a motor spinning sound and if it was not throwing out the bendix the same
 
Dana67Dart said:
put a volt meter on the battery while turning the key. My bet is it drops to 5-6V.

If it drops like that charge the battery over night

If it was the starter not engaging the flex plate you should hear a motor spinning sound and if it was not throwing out the bendix the same
Click to expand...
Is there a fix to it dropping voltage or is it just cause the battery’s low?
 
NSdartSW said:
That should be a video of it, for being in college I’m honestly not very tech savvy so sorry.
Is there anything else you could need?
Click to expand...
that video with sound is perfect.

also battery / electronics 101...

a volt meter uses very high resistance when it measures voltage IE no load at all. So if you have a battery that is dead it can still read 12V but the monument you put a load on it, it drops to 5-6 V. Same applies when tracing out circuits an ohm meter will read that the wire has continuity from one end to the other but if it had a load on it, it would have high resistance. think about this scenario.

You have a battery cable that is made up of 50 strands of 20 awg wire (just numbers for illustration) 1 strand of 20 awg can carry 5 amps so 50 can carry 250 amps. You hook up an ohm meter and you read 0.1 Ohms, perfect no resistance in the wire it will start the car.

then you turn the key and nothing happens but a click or a buzz.

You check out the wire end to end and find a spot where all but 1 strand of the 20 awg wire is still connected. The ohm meter said you had continuity which you do BUT that one tiny strand can not carry the load the starter is pulling. The small wire gets hot and its resistance increases and the voltage drops.

bottom line is that a volt or an ohm meter can lie under some conditions. checking a voltage drop never lies.


lastly google "Chrysler Master Tech videos" add a word like "battery" or "starter"

MyMopar. com
 
Oooh ok I see thank that was very helpful. Before the engine swap I was tracing some battery draw. It killed a battery or 2 but I thought I sorted it out, may not tho. Thank you that was very helpful.
 
NSdartSW said:
Before the engine swap I was tracing some battery draw
Click to expand...
got ya.

one issue at a time.

Be sure to check the voltage while cranking after the battery gets charged so if the problem still exists we can rule things out.
 
Can you turn the crank by hand? Pretty loud in the car for a dead battery. Sounds to me more like the starter has the power but the sound is like the converter is binding holding the starter back.

Does the engine try and move at all when making that noise? Are you positive you had the converter in the trans all the way and didn't pull the trans against with the bolts ?? That noise sounds so familiar and I am not going to mention why. I promised I wouldn't tell.

One other thing to check is the top hole on the starter. Some new starters have a larger top hole and require a bushing. Without that the starter can bind if not positioned correctly.

Check the Battery cable at the starter for good contact. Hope this helps.
 
How to do this:

First electrical "CIRCUITS" are called that because they are CIRCULAR---the electrons go 'round and round.

THE PATH

The high current goes from the battery neg. POST to the cable CLAMP --through the ground CABLE-to the EYELET TERMINAL at the end of the cable, and bolted to the ENGINE BLOCK. From the block, power goes to the STARTER MOUNTING/ HOUSING, through the motor, through the solenoid switching contacts and to the BIG STUD on the solenoid

From there to the CABLE EYELET on the hot cable, through the CABLE, to the pos. cable battery CLAMP and bac to the positive battery POST

EVERYTHING I capitalized is a suspect for VOLTAGE DROP and drop in the system can be one of them, more than one, or ALL of them.

AND IT CAN BE the battery itself, either down on charge, too small for the job, old and worn out, or with some defect like a bad cell.

WHAT TO DO

Either get a helper or get some battery/ alligator clips and jumper wires and a REMOTE STARTER switch. "Chase" the voltage drop through the system, but START WITH the battery

1...Hold the remote switch in one hand, take your battery probes and stab them hard into the tops of the two battery POSTS. Read the voltage which should be 12.6 or more. Hold the probes in place, crank the engine for 10 seconds and while it is still cranking, read your meter. Voltage should be AT LEAST 10.5.. If not investigate the battery.

2...Still holding the remote switch, stab one probe into the top of the neg battery post and the other into the neg battery clamp. Crank engine, read the meter. You should not read more than .2V. That is 2/10 of one volt. If higher, take it apart and clean the post and clamp, and re-tighten. DO THE SAME for the positive post and clamp

3...Stab one probe into the neg battery clamp, the other probe into the shell of the eyelet on the other end of the cable. Crank engine, read meter. You should not read more than say, .3V---3/10 of one v. Do the same for the positive cable.

4...Stab probe into the engine block or starter mount flange, stab the other onto the big stud on the solenoid. Crank and read. You should have no less than 10.5V and in no case less than 10V

Checking the battery: You need to borrow, steal or go to a place that has a battery load tester. They must be BIG not pocket sized. These have a huge variable resistor called a "carbon pile" and can put an adjustable load on the battery so you can read the amperage drawn and the voltage it draws down to. This will tell you if the battery is "heavy" enough, and has the capacity needed
 
Dana67Dart said:
that video with sound is perfect.

also battery / electronics 101...

a volt meter uses very high resistance when it measures voltage IE no load at all. So if you have a battery that is dead it can still read 12V but the monument you put a load on it, it drops to 5-6 V. Same applies when tracing out circuits an ohm meter will read that the wire has continuity from one end to the other but if it had a load on it, it would have high resistance. think about this scenario.

You have a battery cable that is made up of 50 strands of 20 awg wire (just numbers for illustration) 1 strand of 20 awg can carry 5 amps so 50 can carry 250 amps. You hook up an ohm meter and you read 0.1 Ohms, perfect no resistance in the wire it will start the car.

then you turn the key and nothing happens but a click or a buzz.

You check out the wire end to end and find a spot where all but 1 strand of the 20 awg wire is still connected. The ohm meter said you had continuity which you do BUT that one tiny strand can not carry the load the starter is pulling. The small wire gets hot and its resistance increases and the voltage drops.

bottom line is that a volt or an ohm meter can lie under some conditions. checking a voltage drop never lies.


lastly google "Chrysler Master Tech videos" add a word like "battery" or "starter"

MyMopar. com
Click to expand...
Excellent explanation!
 
PLEASE DO NOT START another new thread with this problem. Keep one thread going so the rest of us can follow what you did, what you tried, etc
 
I can turn it over by hand with the crank I’m gonna let it charge over night and see if the starter needs a bushing when I have time tomorrow.
 
Charging in overnight unfortunately didn’t make a difference I don’t have time other then just try and crank it this morning but I took a peek at the battery cable down to the battery and at the eyeloop it didn’t look spectacular so when I have time I want to look at that.
 
you're going to need 2 sets of ears and eyes. Do the voltage drop while cranking test BEFORE you pull or replace any parts. Costs nothing and tells a lot.
 
We have a jump pack, not sure why I never thought of trying it, definitely will in the morning. I had a thought, the negative cable end, word is slipping my mind right now apologies, has always been kind of loose it’s tightened as much as it gets but I can still work it off with my hand. Could that be causing problems, I imagine it isn’t helping, I’ve been meaning to replace them anyways.
 
NSdartSW said:
We have a jump pack, not sure why I never thought of trying it, definitely will in the morning. I had a thought, the negative cable end, word is slipping my mind right now apologies, has always been kind of loose it’s tightened as much as it gets but I can still work it off with my hand. Could that be causing problems, I imagine it isn’t helping, I’ve been meaning to replace them anyways.
Click to expand...
Yes, replace it asap.
 
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