Starter relay or motor?

[65Valiant273]

We've got a '65 Valiant with the 273 and I just replaced the starter relay after it failed, but now the starter is not engaging and its just spinning freely or briefly engaging and then spinning freely.

Is there any chance that the relay I installed is defective? Could a defective relay cause this problem or is it something wrong with the solenoid/clutch and how could I check.. If it is the starter is there a way I can take it out of the car without using a hoist as it seems to be difficult to get out. (Can't really afford to take it to a shop right now.)

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[cudajim]

Sounds like the starter is not engaging or perhaps there's no tooth left on the ring gear. The starter probably just needs to be pulled and lubed a bit so the bendix gear slides properly.

 

[sargentrs]

While you've got it out, inspect the ring gear teeth and bench test the starter. If gear teeth are bad, rotate the engine by hand to good teeth, put the starter in and try again..

 

[nm9stheham]

Your problem is 99% sure to be in the starter and not the new relay. The relay could possibly be causing a poor connection of juice into the starter, but that is rare. You can test that by using a screwdriver to quickly make the connection between the big lug and the solenoid lug on the starter relay and see if the starter behaves any better.

If the ring gear is worn out (and will likely be so on 4 spots around the gear), you can remove it and flip it over and re-install on most manual trans flywheels.

 

[krazykuda]

I'm gonna go with it's in the starter....

 

[d55dave]

Change the starter.

 

[BillGrissom]

Before you remove the starter, get one from the junkyard ($15) from Dodge truck w/ Magnum 3.2 or 3.9L engine. Half the size/weight and thus much easier to fit in a small block. You will find it interesting to remove the starter. You must get the steering linkage in just the right place to work it thru.

 

[pishta]

Whack the starter with a hammer. If it starts, go buy a new one or remove and inspect. I doubt the teeth are gone, but it may not be fully seated either.

 

[TrailBeast]

Whack the starter with a hammer. If it starts, go buy a new one or remove and inspect. I doubt the teeth are gone, but it may not be fully seated either.

That could do it.

The bendix in OEM starters is built into the drive so it is the starter.

In the "Mini's the bendix is actuated by an electromagnet and then mechanicals move the gear into the flywheel teeth, so diagnostics are different between the two by quite a bit.

 

[65Valiant273]

Before you remove the starter, get one from the junkyard ($15) from Dodge truck w/ Magnum 3.2 or 3.9L engine. Half the size/weight and thus much easier to fit in a small block. You will find it interesting to remove the starter. You must get the steering linkage in just the right place to work it thru.

So I don't necessarily have to take it out to get access? Any tips on getting it out would be awesome as I don't exactly have the best conditions to work on it myself (street). Would those mini starters be a *bolt-on* or would I have to fettle with anything?

:thumleft:Thanks for the help!

 

[Bad Sport]

Have you checked to see if it hasn't come loose?

 

[65Valiant273]

Not so far as I can tell, it seems secure.

 

[BillGrissom]

I don't know what you mean by "access". You can't do much work on the starter without removing it, other than checking the electrical connections. Many here use a mini-starter from a Magnum engine. I put one from an 80 or 90's Dodge truck in my 65 Dart 273, or maybe it was a Grand Cherokee 5.9L. I used the cable from the truck so didn't need to fuss w/ connectors, plus cheap way to get a better cable. I also used the alternator cable & BATT- cable.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Sounds like the starter drive or bendix is bad. They are replaceable but not worth the expense or trouble. But now would be a great time change it to a mini starter.

 

[pishta]

mini bolts right in, you might need to rotate the old starter straight up and down them snake it around the steering linkage to get it out but its doable. Mini is much smaller, faster and stronger.

 

[TrailBeast]

You'll have to mess with the connections on the cable for the starter to get them to line up if you don't use the cable from the truck it comes off of.
I think it only took a little tweaking when I changed mine, as it's not bad or hard to do at all.
You'll love that mini.
They turn the engine over a lot faster, and use less amps than the original starter.