Steering All Over the Place at 55mph+

[67Mungo]

I was going the correct way. I flipped the tool to the other side of the control arm. Inside of the arm towards the outside.

As you can see in these pics the damn things are just seized in there.

Y'all have been giving great advice BUT since I'm replacing the UCA's now, if I buy tubular ones do I need the offset bushings in them as well? Any recommendations?

 

[Ironracer]

Man, those things are a Lil Crusty! lol, you can go with the offset bushings I guess to gain even more Caster but I doubt it would be needed, I don't know, @72bluNblu would know more about that tidbit. I want to say some of those come with bushings in them anyhow you could probably get rid of the bushings you got by returning them and offset the cost of the new arms somewhat

 

[72bluNblu]

I was going the correct way. I flipped the tool to the other side of the control arm. Inside of the arm towards the outside.

As you can see in these pics the damn things are just seized in there.

Y'all have been giving great advice BUT since I'm replacing the UCA's now, if I buy tubular ones do I need the offset bushings in them as well? Any recommendations?

View attachment 1716083527

View attachment 1716083528

View attachment 1716083529

First, I totally believe you when you say those shells are seized in the arms. In the picture you posted with the puller, you’re set up to pull the wrong way. You can see in this picture what it looks like as the bushings are removed, you can see what parts are UCA and what part is outer shell here

Here’s a full breakdown, just for future reference, on the removal and replacement of the bushings.
Refurbishing Upper Control Arms (UCA)

Now, that said, new UCA’s. There’s really no need for offset bushings with tubular UCA’s. All the tubular UCA’s I’ve seen have at least an additional +3° of caster built in, some have 4. So you should be able to get plenty of positive caster with the tubular UCA’s just out of the box.

I have used offset bushings in tubular UCA’s, which allowed me to get up to +8° of caster with a set of non-adjustable Magnumforce UCA’s. But even I don’t run that much positive caster. And for how you intend to use the car any of the tubular arms you can buy should have all the caster you need built in.

 

[Ironracer]

First, I totally believe you when you say those shells are seized in the arms. In the picture you posted with the puller, you’re set up to pull the wrong way. You can see in this picture what it looks like as the bushings are removed, you can see what parts are UCA and what part is outer shell here
View attachment 1716083539

Here’s a full breakdown, just for future reference, on the removal and replacement of the bushings.
Refurbishing Upper Control Arms (UCA)

Now, that said, new UCA’s. There’s really no need for offset bushings with tubular UCA’s. All the tubular UCA’s I’ve seen have at least an additional +3° of caster built in, some have 4. So you should be able to get plenty of positive caster with the tubular UCA’s just out of the box.

I have used offset bushings in tubular UCA’s, which allowed me to get up to +8° of caster with a set of non-adjustable Magnumforce UCA’s. But even I don’t run that much positive caster. And for how you intend to use the car any of the tubular arms you can buy should have all the caster you need built in.

I was pretty sure that was you that said you were running about seven and a half degrees positive caster with the offset bushings in aftermarket arms I didn't think he had need of it but I figured I'd call her so you can totally describe it and yes it does look to me like he's pushing backwards

 

[67Mungo]

First, I totally believe you when you say those shells are seized in the arms. In the picture you posted with the puller, you’re set up to pull the wrong way. You can see in this picture what it looks like as the bushings are removed, you can see what parts are UCA and what part is outer shell here
View attachment 1716083539

Here’s a full breakdown, just for future reference, on the removal and replacement of the bushings.
Refurbishing Upper Control Arms (UCA)

Now, that said, new UCA’s. There’s really no need for offset bushings with tubular UCA’s. All the tubular UCA’s I’ve seen have at least an additional +3° of caster built in, some have 4. So you should be able to get plenty of positive caster with the tubular UCA’s just out of the box.

I have used offset bushings in tubular UCA’s, which allowed me to get up to +8° of caster with a set of non-adjustable Magnumforce UCA’s. But even I don’t run that much positive caster. And for how you intend to use the car any of the tubular arms you can buy should have all the caster you need built in.

Once again @72bluNblue you've been an amazing help with this. You're right about pulling the wrong way by the way. Lol. I did try the other and they are completely seized. Even held the torch to get the control arm red hot and no luck getting them out. I swear that's the only rust on the entire car which drives me nuts. Your refurbish guide is great too! I'll probably just list the offset bushings on here for free (just pay shipping) and order a set of control arms. Then maybe, just maybe I'll be able to get a spring cruise in. Tomorrow I'll remove the passenger side control arm and keeping fingers crossed for no problems. Oh yeah... even though I've done ball joints before I almost crapped my pants as I had my ball joint separator torqued and it popped when I wasn't expecting it. Lol. I hate that! Anyway... thanks forum for the help and will post pics when new control arms come in and they are installed.

 

[92b]

I was going the correct way. I flipped the tool to the other side of the control arm. Inside of the arm towards the outside.

As you can see in these pics the damn things are just seized in there.

Y'all have been giving great advice BUT since I'm replacing the UCA's now, if I buy tubular ones do I need the offset bushings in them as well? Any recommendations?

View attachment 1716083527

View attachment 1716083528

View attachment 1716083529

If you or someone you know is handy with a torch you could slice those bushings out. put the torch head at angle that is almost parallel with the bushing and hit the O2 as soon as it will cut. once you have a slice in it you can drive the sidewall of the bushing toward the center with a hammer and punch or chisel.
If you have access to an air chisel you could try collapsing the bushing into itself.
You could also use a die grinder to thin the shell where it passes through the A-frame and collapse the bushing with a hammer and chisel where you thinned it.
You could use a hacksaw or sawsall to slice the bushing.
You don’t need to save the shell so don't be afraid to get after it. Just be careful not to hurt the A-frame. What have you got to lose?

 

[jos51700]

If you or someone you know is handy with a torch you could slice those bushings out. put the torch head at angle that is almost parallel with the bushing and hit the O2 as soon as it will cut. once you have a slice in it you can drive the sidewall of the bushing toward the center with a hammer and punch or chisel.
If you have access to an air chisel you could try collapsing the bushing into itself.
You could also use a die grinder to thin the shell where it passes through the A-frame and collapse the bushing with a hammer and chisel where you thinned it.
You could use a hacksaw or sawsall to slice the bushing.
You don’t need to save the shell so don't be afraid to get after it. Just be careful not to hurt the A-frame. What have you got to lose?

I'm going to second the above methods except the torch. Cutting torches and material that thin don't go well together for all but a very small segment of torch operators, and damaging the bushing area in the control arm...would be bad. Heat the bushing shell up and blast it with penetrant, but don't try to cut it out.

 

[67Mungo]

I gave them away to a member in the classifieds to get them out of my garage so I'll never have to see them again Somebody else's problem now! Have me a set of Firm Feel tubulars on the way. Hate getting away from the OEM appearance but if it means it handles better and is better weekend driver than so be it. Plus it's not like I'm always looking under there either. Looking forward to reporting back how the install went with the tubulars!

 

[Joeycurl]

So I always suspected my idler arm being loose or worn. Seems like it would have bearing on the topic being discussed. Finally have a video and hope everyone can let me know if this is normal or worn

Idler arm play.MOV

Can anyone see the video on the link? Was hoping to get some help on if the idler arm needs replacing or is okay

 

[Swinger 340]

Can anyone see the video on the link? Was hoping to get some help on if the idler arm needs replacing or is okay

Joeycurl, Your idler arm needs replacing. I had a 72' Dodge Van once that I had to replace the idler arm every two years or so. Two problems I had and solved both. One, I installed TA 50's on the front that put on extra stress on the steering components. Two, I replaced all the steering joints that had balls (not those kind of balls, for all you smarties) and never had an issuse after that (10 years). Once a part starts to wear, others will follow. Example: If you were to have a bad ankle, other joints in your legs would follow, to fail. MOOG is the way to go. Like the old saying goes, "pay me now or pay me later". Buy Quality, not price.

 

[Joeycurl]

Joeycurl, Your idler arm needs replacing. I had a 72' Dodge Van once that I had to replace the idler arm every two years or so. Two problems I had and solved both. One, I installed TA 50's on the front that put on extra stress on the steering components. Two, I replaced all the steering joints that had balls (not those kind of balls, for all you smarties) and never had an issuse after that (10 years). Once a part starts to wear, others will follow. Example: If you were to have a bad ankle, other joints in your legs would follow, to fail. MOOG is the way to go. Like the old saying goes, "pay me now or pay me later". Buy Quality, not price.

Thank you Swinger340! Always had suspicions but never confirmation. Guess I’ll be needing an alignment afterwards. I’ll check the ball joints too

 

[67Mungo]

Final Report! Just picked her up from the alignment shop. Went with Firm Feel tubular uppers and got her aligned. They dialed caster in around +2.5 Deg and 1/2 Deg neg camber. I can not tell you what a world of difference it made. I went from being scared to drive it to weaving in and out of traffic at 70mph! Its ride is so stable now!!!!! BLOWN AWAY! A heartfelt thank you to everybody that chimed in and helped a newbie to the forum. Would have been lost in the woods without y'all.

I should also add they had it parked in front of the shop all afternoon and had several people stop and take a look at her. Felt great to hear that!

 

[Demonx2]

Congrats to you - glad it worked! Gives me hope for mine!! Lol

 

[MopaR&D]

Glad you got it sorted out! Not that it really matters now since you are happy with the way it is but you could easily get the caster cranked up over +4 degrees and it would start to feel like a modern car.