The thing is , the cars were only 10-15 years old at the time.
now were talking 50
now were talking 50
Stock 360 Upgrades for Crusher Cuda?
- Thread starter CrusherCuda
- Start date
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CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
Yes, is the short answer. The 8 3/4 has stock 69 Barracuda drum brakes. 73 Dart disc on the front, drilled and slotted. Dual pot master manual brakes. All lines will be new. This is a ground up build/rescue. I want the car to be safe. At some point my daughter will drive it, so I will not build an unsafe car. More to come on the build page.
RRR’s hot rod bliss thread if not already mentioned is a great starting point. Here’s my take on it.
1. 4 barrel and intake, the airgap is probably the best dual plane but expensive and not necessary. I would buy a used $100.00 aluminum intake dual plane or even a stock 4 barrel 360 intake.
2. dual exhaust to let it breath, if you can afford a nice set of headers you will be money ahead.
3. recurve the distributer
tune...tune... and tune
5.trans go TF2 shift kit will make the transmission shift in a positive way
Now that we unleashed the power of a stock motor. You can determine which way you want to go with it time and money permitting. Where do you want to shift the RPM/power range.
6. Rear gears you got 3:91’s sure grip that’s about perfect
7. Cam .480ish lift 270ish duration
8. Stall converter 3500k...ish
Tune...Tune...Tune
What I found interesting on these types threads is that we all are trying to get to have a fun Mopar with good power. However, we all come from a different range of resources and availability of funds for said project. Which perhaps plays the biggest role in any advice giving. You can spend your way to performance upfront or slowly tune what you got adding performance as you go.
1. 4 barrel and intake, the airgap is probably the best dual plane but expensive and not necessary. I would buy a used $100.00 aluminum intake dual plane or even a stock 4 barrel 360 intake.
2. dual exhaust to let it breath, if you can afford a nice set of headers you will be money ahead.
3. recurve the distributer
tune...tune... and tune
5.trans go TF2 shift kit will make the transmission shift in a positive way
Now that we unleashed the power of a stock motor. You can determine which way you want to go with it time and money permitting. Where do you want to shift the RPM/power range.
6. Rear gears you got 3:91’s sure grip that’s about perfect
7. Cam .480ish lift 270ish duration
8. Stall converter 3500k...ish
Tune...Tune...Tune
What I found interesting on these types threads is that we all are trying to get to have a fun Mopar with good power. However, we all come from a different range of resources and availability of funds for said project. Which perhaps plays the biggest role in any advice giving. You can spend your way to performance upfront or slowly tune what you got adding performance as you go.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If you have headers you don’t need all the split on the cam. 224 on both sides would be better. Get some more lift if you can. And nothing wider than a 108 LSA and a 106 would be better.
Unless you already have the cam. If so, just use it.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Point number 4 should have been BOLD, underlined, italicized, capitalized and repeated 100 times.
CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
I only understand cam numbers a little bit. I understand lift, duration, and LSA. But, I don't know how it affects the engines power. I don't have the tuning experience to create a perfect cam. I am pretty much relying on cookie cutter cams. I believe the Comp cam I'm looking at has a 109 LSA. I need to school myself a little more on how these things affect the power numbers. I don't have a dyno to play with, just the experience of others. No cam has been bought. I feel this could really be the most important component to get right that the engine can grow around.
If you wanted to get a cam exactly for your combo, call a cam grinder like "Oregon cam grinders". Really, the cost isn't that much more.
I'd be looking at Hughes kit HUG SMC 2336 AL-PK and PRT-D7141700
for a low compression 360 it works.
for a low compression 360 it works.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
You wouldn’t be wrong in that miss on the cam and it’s hard to crutch the rest of the combo to make it happy.
What’s the actual part number of the Comp cam? It’s probably on a 110 LSA. and they want it in on a 106 Intake Center Line.
Just so you know, the Lobe Separation angle is the actual centerline of the intake and exhaust lobes of the same cylinder. It is fixed when the cam is ground and can’t be changed on a single cam application.
Intake Center Line is where the cam is degreed. That means if you install a 110 LSA cam on a 106 ICL you have timed the cam so that maximum intake valve lift occurs at 106 degrees After Top Dead Center. It also means the cam is installed 4 degrees advanced. If you installed that same cam on a 110 ICL it would be installed “straight up” or split overlap. Should you desire, you could install that cam on a 114 ICL and then it would be r degrees retarded.
If you look at the numbers and what you are doing you’ll see that advancing the cam is actually doing that very thing. It is advancing the timing events. Retarding the cam means just that. You are retarding the timing events...opening the intake valve later as well as all the other events occur later.
CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
Ok, these are the Comp options in the realm of conversation. All good for 3.91 gears and maxing out lift on stock rockers and pushrods. The only reason I keep going back to Comp Cams is the convenience of the complete package and out of the box specs compared to other brands. I am not concerned with cruising this car and getting ice cream. My 66 Mustang serves that purpose.
Extreme Energy Cams
Comp 20-222-3, 218/224, .462/.470, LSA 110, ICL 106, RPM 1300-5600 Stock Converter
Comp 20-223-3, 224/230, .477/.480, LSA 110, ICL 106, RPM 1600-5800 Stock Converter, 2000 Stall Suggested
Comp 20-224-4, 230/236, .488/.491, LSA 110, ICL 106, RPM 1800-6000, 2200+ Stall Suggested
or
High Energy Cam
Comp 20-214-4, 224/224, .470/.470, LSA 110, ICL 106, RPM 1800-5800, Stock Converter.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Here is what I’d suggest for you with the gear and headers you have.
271/271 224/224 .515/.515 LSA 106 ICL 104
What would you think about that. Same at .050 timing on the exhaust, but you gain 6 degrees on the intake lobe compared to the first cam you posted. You’d have more lift than any of the other grinds you’ve listed and .500ish lift is nothing. I put on a 106 LSA so it will help with bottom and middle torque and horsepower and it won’t want to RPM past 5700-5800 RPM.
That’s what I think you should use. Of course, that isn’t an off the shelf cam and right now it’s 6-8 weeks out. The end payoff is much better with this grind IMO.
As an FYI it a Howard’s lobe. To order it you tell them you want: HM224450A/HM224450A 106 + 2 and that will get you that grind.
Im not a fan of slow lobes when you have a .904 lifter and you can make use of a faster lobe. I’m not saying you need a ball crushing, dong beating lobe. I think you’ll be better off with a bit quicker .904 than the slower stuff.
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CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
I was told that anything over .500 lift will punch a hole through the stock rocker arms. I won't change rockers until I do heads, and that will be awhile. Also take into account I may mill the heads a bit, and the the pushrods will be that much longer. I would hate to grenade the top end before I can learn the car.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Thats not true. Keep the seat pressure at about 120ish and it will be fine. I ran the 292/509 hydraulic cam for years and beat the crap out of it. Never hurt a stock rocker.
I wouldn't use a stamped rocker arm that is long worn out.
most factory arms from the 70's are way over due for replacement
most factory arms from the 70's are way over due for replacement
most I've seen are egg shaped on the shaft
CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
I will have to do an inspection on the engine. I think it had 70K on it. I'll have to go back and look at the odometer in the Polara. Most of these upgrades are best case scenario. If the engine is wore out, I will still install in the car and make a slow pass, but plan on regrouping next year to rebuild the engine. Budget allowing..
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
You used to be able to buy heavy duty hydraulic rockers. You’d never hurt one of those. My stock rockers had well over 100,000 abusive miles on them when I bought the car. Then I rebuilt the engine with a Strip Dominator, got the compression to 10:1 (would have rather had the 10.5:1 like it should have been but I just turned 18 and the guy doing the machine work at that time couldn’t get it through his chevy head that the piston needed to come out of the bore .045) put some 1.75 headers on and that 292 cam. Then I beat the hell out of some more.
In fact, that engine went 12.90’s at a bit over 109 MPH in 1982. I had clutch and hook issues. It should have run a real low 12. And that was on stock hydraulic rockers.
I forget who exactly sells new Hyd rockers, but I did see them not so long ago. Perhaps Federal Mougal? Dang! I can’t remember.
Agreed. Ran that combo! Worked fine.
CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
Ok, I like the info here, but this get very complicated now. I can get a Purple Cam 292/292, 248/248@50, .508/.508, 2800-6200rpm, LSA 108, ICL ?. I like the Mopar Connection. I found Melling USA lifters Stock=JB-2011, Performance=290114. Not sure what warrants performance lifters? I cannot find valve springs. I checked Comp, Edelbrock, Mancini, Summit, and Jegs. Maybe it's their search engines, but they do not list any valve springs for 360 Mopar. Comp offers springs with the cam sets, but not separately. It would seem going this route will require more expensive parts and for sure a converter change due to the rpm range. I also do not have the ability to check seat pressure. This is what I was trying to avoid.
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CrusherCuda
Well-Known Member
Comp Cams offers a "292" cam. 244/244@50, .501/.501, 3000-6500rpm, LSA 110, ICL 106, 3000-3500 stall required. No specs on the springs, but are included in the full kit. But the kit has spec listed at 280/280, 230/230@50, .480/.480, LSA 110, ICL ?, 3000-3500 stall required, calling it a 292H Cam. If the stock converter, stock rockers, and stock pushrods will handle these specs, I can go big. The engine can definitely grow into a bigger cam as long as the cam doesn't break the engine or trans. The smaller cams were $400 for a kit and up. This "292" cam kit is $520. I feel we are close to a consensus.
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Wvbuzzmaster
Well-Known Member
I think you will like the Purple Cam. It’s a very peppy grind from my experience in my Duster. I drove the car with 4.10s and a Purple cam on a stock converter and that to me is about all the cam you want on a stock converter... in fact, it really needs a slightly higher stall because it wants to leave as soon as you drop the 727 into Drive. Very workable because redoing the whole car I am refusing to change torque converter this year, not due to cash, but rather the amount of work to get there, and the potential of wanting to rebuild the transmission. But either way I have opted to go to 3.91s to see what that does to it, but I would say go for the Purple cam. Also, get it from Isky, I have heard they are one of the original manufacturers to copy the original Mopar Purple grind correctly? Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this though.
Original cam grinders for the Chrysler “Hustle Stuff” performance program was Racer Brown.
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