Stock '69 318, t-quad vs q-jet vs holley vs edelbrock?

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remytherat

remytherat

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Hi all,
Just got a '69 dart with a 318. New to this engine and mopars in general. It is a completely unmolested engine, stock two barrel of course. After I get some headers and dual exhaust on it, I plan on doing a 4 barrel swap. In terms of intake, I could go for something spread bore to run a t-quad or q-jet, but is this the right way to go? I could also try to find a square bore intake and run an edelbrock avs2 or a holley vac secondary...

The t-quad seems really appealing given the stories of great mileage and unparalleled airflow for the price but is it more of a hassle?

Thanks guys
 
First off, congratulations on your "new" car, you're going to have fun with it.
As far as carb choice, all will work. And for the record, there are adapters that will make a spread bore carb work on a square bore intake and vice versa so you don't need to break your head on that or feel like you're limited to one camp or the other. The carter style edelbrock will probably be the "easiest" choice only because of how simple they are for a daily driver and there is still just about unlimited part availability on them. I have an AVS2 on my 360 and I love it. But I used to have a holley (was too big for my engine) and that was a lot of fun to tinker with as well.
T-quad and quadrajets are great carbs that may/may not need a little tuning to get right on your particular engine but once you get it dialed in you basically don't need to ever mess with it again.
 
Best to stick with a new carb as parts are available. T quad and q jet carbs you will have to hunt for parts.
 
I just bought a 650 AVS2 yesterday. I figure the AVS2 is the latest iteration of the early carbs that use the metering rods. People here have good things to say about it.
 
What carburetor type are you most accustom to tuning?

Have you read up on headers? If not, look to TTI or Doug's.
 
dano said:
What carburetor type are you most accustom to tuning?

Have you read up on headers? If not, look to TTI or Doug's.
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I was thinking of getting the summit racing long tubes and the exhaust system together since they bolt right up to each other. Maybe this is cutting corners?

Most accustomed to autolite carbs
 
remytherat said:
I was thinking of getting the summit racing long tubes and the exhaust system together since they bolt right up to each other. Maybe this is cutting corners?

Most accustomed to autolite carbs
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Problem you'll find with them and every other brand is one tube on the drivers side goes under the steering linkage. This tube hangs down and has a habit of getting flattened by speed bumps, trailers (loading on and off), rocks, etc. Doug's and TTI's don't have this "feature". With TTI you can buy a bolt on exhaust system too.
 
If you are familiar with the Thermoquad and know how to tune one, it will suck the other carburetors right down the intake. There's just no comparison. On the other hand, if you're not...........
 
For all out cheap you can't beat an original TQ intake from 71 through early 80's. Be aware you will need different or modified kickdown linkage for your automatic transmission when switching from a 2 barrel to a 4 barrel. Use a 340 throttle cable bracket. Have to agree with post #8 above on carb choice. QJ is a close second but takes more work and know how. If you can find a good early small block (340 or 360) TQ with ported vacuum for the vacuum advance on the distributor it would work well, as is. I'd skip the headers and just run dual exhaust, since your exhaust manifolds are decent, just make sure your exhaust control valve is open or removed. If you would rather go new, I also hear very good things about the Edelbrock AVS2 and a Holley Street Demon, Although I personally have not tried them.
 
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  • Factory cast 4bbl intakes work great. They are heavy, but work great. Other than that, a Weiand Action Plus is a great intake, and the edelbrock performer will work good too along with others.
  • As for carbs, I will say this: Get the one YOU feel most comfortable tuning and adjusting. Or, if you got a friend that is going to do the tuning, then get the one HE is most comfortable tuning. Nothing worse than having every Tom, Dick, and Harry tuning on your car and still not being happy.
 
if you're familiar with autolite carbs, then you'll be comfortable with holly stuff. a well tuned vacuum 2ndary in a reasonable size will give great performance and very decent gas mileage.

the AVS2 is another excellent choice.

manifold wise, considering you're putting it on a 318 with a 2bbl cam i'd be looking at small port dual planes. edelbrock performer would be an excellent choice, as would weiand action plus, or an offy.

edelbrock makes adapters to run square bore carbs on spread bore manifolds. no big deal.

be sure to update your carb linkage AND your transmission kick down!

headers-- buy once, cry once. get dougs or TTI they fit 10X better and are double the quality.
 
remytherat said:
I was thinking of getting the summit racing long tubes and the exhaust system together since they bolt right up to each other. Maybe this is cutting corners?

Most accustomed to autolite carbs
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Summit sells a version of a Holley 4010 that is similar to the Auolite carb. I have one, works very well. Other than that, an Edelbrock or a Holley will be fine. The spreadbore carbs are better IMO. But! Finding parts for them can be a bummer. The jets and rods for a TQ are very hard to find. IDK about the Rochester.

I have done the Summit Racing headers and exhaust kit several times before and it is an excellent and inexpensive set up. As mentioned earlier, the headers are the typical 1-5/8 tube design that has 3 tubes on the drivers side to under the steering linkage. It’s a huge PIA to get it done, but that should be nothing new.

In order to save the headers from being flattened from the road and speed bumps, a 1/4 twist of the torsion bars height adjustment bolt will raise the cars front up a little bit. Also install new shocks. Worn shocks will allow to much travel wrecking the headers.

On the exhaust, minor trimming will probably be needed. This is a simple thing to do with a metal blade on a chop saw. A hand saw can be used. The cuts just aren’t the straightest. Summit brand mufflers are normally supplied and have been dyno proven to allow 400 hp, no problem.

Below you can view a header/exhaust kit -
This one is actually a Hooker header and a Jegs exhaust kit which is the same as Summit exhaust kit. The Summit header is actually better than the high dollar Hooker.

rumblefish's Duster project
 
66fs said:
For all out cheap you can't beat an original TQ intake from 71 through early 80's. Be aware you will need different or modified kickdown linkage for your automatic transmission when switching from a 2 barrel to a 4 barrel. Use a 340 throttle cable bracket. Have to agree with post #8 above on carb choice. QJ is a close second but takes more work and know how. If you can find a good early small block (340 or 360) TQ with ported vacuum for the vacuum advance on the distributor it would work well, as is. I'd skip the headers and just run dual exhaust, since your exhaust manifolds are decent, just make sure your exhaust control valve is open or removed. If you would rather go new, I also hear very good things about the Edelbrock AVS2 and a Holley Street Demon, Although I personally have not tried them.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking of doing exactly what you suggest if I can get a friend to help me with the TQ tuning/rebuild process. I think I'll get the Doug's headers eventually but if I can stick to stock manifolds for the moment that would be a lot easier on the wallet.
 
318willrun said:
  • Factory cast 4bbl intakes work great. They are heavy, but work great. Other than that, a Weiand Action Plus is a great intake, and the edelbrock performer will work good too along with others.
  • As for carbs, I will say this: Get the one YOU feel most comfortable tuning and adjusting. Or, if you got a friend that is going to do the tuning, then get the one HE is most comfortable tuning. Nothing worse than having every Tom, Dick, and Harry tuning on your car and still not being happy.
Click to expand...
Cast iron seems to have the benefit of not fluctuating as much in temperature from the evaporation of the fuel since it has a way higher heat capacity that aluminum. Just a thought...
 
remytherat said:
I'm thinking of doing exactly what you suggest if I can get a friend to help me with the TQ tuning/rebuild process. I think I'll get the Doug's headers eventually but if I can stick to stock manifolds for the moment that would be a lot easier on the wallet.
Click to expand...
Do the intake and carb first and learn to tune the carb. When adding headers and a more free flowing exhaust you will likley need to tune the carb some again and you'll be more confident in doing so.

Is your car an auto or manual? Power or Manual steering?

Don't overlook 340 manifolds as well along with suspension and brake upgrades.
 
dano said:
Don't overlook 340 manifolds as well along with suspension and brake upgrades.
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+1 on 340 manifolds and the brake/suspension upgrades.

i'd run stock manifolds and use that "header money" in the budget for brakes and suspension.
 
Brooks James said:
TQ kits, jets, misc hardware available. Modify AFB rods for TQ
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Been doing that for a long time and I have often suggested that here.
remytherat said:
Cast iron seems to have the benefit of not fluctuating as much in temperature from the evaporation of the fuel since it has a way higher heat capacity that aluminum. Just a thought...
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“Not fluctuating?” This is what now? Has to do with what?
 
remytherat said:
Oh oops meant to add that in the context of fuel vaporization + atomization
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Add what. Please clarify. Answer the previous question since your statement doesn’t make s sense
 
- Holleys [ & clones ] are best left in the boxes they come in....
- A TQ is a QJ....on steroids. When Carter designed the TQ, they eliminated the QJs short comings [ leaking fuel wells, one one float bowl etc, small acc pump etc].
- A TQ would be the best choice for your 318. They are getting hard to find, so a Edel 625 AVS2 would be second choice.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Add what. Please clarify. Answer the previous question since your statement doesn’t make s sense
Click to expand...
not to put words into OP's mouth, but i think he means that the cast iron manifold could potentially preserve better fuel atomization because it holds a more constant temp as fuel is introduced to it.

from an abstract scientific standpoint, sure. but it's a bit of an esoteric exercise for a 318 with a 2bbl carb.
 
Remember that an engine is just a gas powered air pump. The whole goal is to increase flow.
4 basic parts to that.
First restriction is carb, intake manifold.
Next is cylinder head valve/port size.
Next camshaft size/lift/duration.
Next exhaust headers, exhaust pipes, mufflers.
You should also upgrade to the Factory electronic ignition system. Very simple, reliable and billions of hi-way miles proven in millions of cars.
The biggest seat of the pants improvement though are the rear gears.
A front disc brake upgrade should also be on your checklist.
 
remytherat said:
I'm thinking of doing exactly what you suggest if I can get a friend to help me with the TQ tuning/rebuild process. I think I'll get the Doug's headers eventually but if I can stick to stock manifolds for the moment that would be a lot easier on the wallet.
Click to expand...

TQ's usually do not need any tuning, especially with what you want to do. Maybe secondary jets. Then it is just cleaning everything up and adjusting the secondary air valve so it won't bog. Make sure you get a TQ that is not frozen or has any stuck parts, like idle mixture adjusting screws. The earlier the better or from trucks or vans.
 
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