Stubborn starting question...

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Just to put in my 2 cents I would take out points condenser old stuff and modernize to a mopar electronic ignition kit! Orange box for street use and make it a simple reliable daily start up. My 65 Barrracuda Formula S starts every time 2 pumps of the gas and varoom varoom. It is a driver not original so it has modern front disc brakes, dual brake cylinder, electronic ignition kit, other modern goodies to make it road worthy and driver it any where any time car! I just find it so much easier to keep it road worthy and just in case one keeps an extra box if yours was to take a hike which can happen from time to time, those you find at events people selling extras or by a new one on-line. Oh I also modernized my drive line with u-joints in the drive shaft as try finding the original set up for an early a body Ball pinion. Just my Opinion nothing more...

65Cudalover
 
67Dart273 said:
I would guess points burning up is some other problem OTHER than bad points, here are some check points, LOL pun fully intended

BATTERY CHARGING VOLTAGE. Running, battery voltage should be 13.8--14.2 with engine warm, in no case above 14.5

COIL could be bad. Check coil running voltage. This varies greatly, might be, idling, anywhere from 10-12 volts but in no case more than 12. Typically less.

SUSPECT bad condenser. Check that the external condenser is hooked to the POSITIVE coil connection, and that the distributor wire is hooked to the NEGATIVE coil connection. The external condenser is for radio suppression

SUSPECT points gap. If the points are set too close, they will burn. Check with a dwell meter. ALWAYS set points "on the wide" side as they will wear closed. Always set timing towards "more" advanced because as the points wear "shut" timing will retard. Always put a tiny tiny amount of hi temp lube on the points rubbing block on the "approach" side. Points, back in the day when "points" were "real" came with a tiny capsule of lube.

MAKE SURE your feeler gauge is clean, and again, set with a dwell meter. Hell, I never even used to USE a feeler. I used to estimate gap, set them with a dwell meter (scope) "on the starter. Then I'd start it up and recheck. They would change some between "on the starter" and running, but after you did this a few times, you knew how much to "adjust." Back in 70--74, I set hundreds and hundreds of 'em
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Thanks for the feedback. Let me reply with recent work;

BATTERY CHARGING VOLTAGE.
-Generally she runs fairly low on voltage, about 13V; good for the battery but not so good for the system...

COIL could be bad.
-I can check to see if I got a bad one, but a replacement coil was installed in November when I started this thread.

SUSPECT bad condenser.
-I swap a condensor every time I replace points.

SUSPECT points gap.
-I'll check this. I am more conservative that you, setting them at .18, but I'll try widening them. I'm also going to doube check timing after all these adjustments.

MAKE SURE your feeler gauge is clean.

-Done & done.



She's running now, starting and not stalling, but I'm going to check timing because she's not very powerful. If she keeps going for a few weeks, I'll look to making the swap to an electronic ignition. I've been looking into the Chrysler kit conversion because the Protronics adapter kits have so-so reviews. I'd rather add a plug & play whole unit, if I can scrape up the pennies!


FYI: The carp rebuild had helped fuel flow but i had an interesting experience yesterday. I'd filled up with non-ethinal gas the night before and went out to add some SeaFoam the next morn. When I pulled the fuel cap, a run of gas burped out the tank! Odd, as I'd driven 5-7 mi after filling up. There must be a fuel pressure issue that I hadn't discovered yet!


Any suggestions on you recommended conversions for Electronic distributors conversion set ups??

:burnout:
 
I truly HATE chasing my butt around and around looking to solve a problem only to have another problem jump up and bite what's hangin' low. The first thing I would do is lose the points!!!!! Install a MOPAR electronic ignition (Yeah I know there are jillions of arguments to use something else, but millions of MOPARS have run many millions of miles with orange boxes) and fix the rest of the problems. Seems you have at least two not counting the points issue, so eliminate the easy one then diagnose and fix the others. I would go with a kit from a reputable dealer like Summit, Jegs, Mancini, etc.

BC
 
I no long am so sure what to recommend for conversion. Parts store quality is changing for the worse. I still really lean towards a Mopar breakerless distributor triggering a GM HEI module. Whether you upgrade the coil or not, you can eliminate the ballast resistor and this will give you a hotter spark.

Many guys have good luck with Pertronix. I say if you go Pertronix, buy two, so you have enough spare stuff to fix it on the road. That's because you can't buy spares everywhere.

If you can find a couple of clean junkyard Mopar ECU's cheap they work fine. Not sure I'd buy new parts store ones.
 
Sad. isn't it? That's why I recommended dealers that cater to car enthusiasts. No personal knowledge that their kits aren't assembled right off the oreilly truck at the back door, but one can always hope. I keep trying to be optimistic that enough returns will wake the industry up. Then, in my darker moments, I think that no matter how cynical I get - I can't keep up!! But we're wandering off topic here, and no help to the original poster.
sorry. guy!

BC



67Dart273 said:
I no long am so sure what to recommend for conversion. Parts store quality is changing for the worse. I still really lean towards a Mopar breakerless distributor triggering a GM HEI module. Whether you upgrade the coil or not, you can eliminate the ballast resistor and this will give you a hotter spark.

Many guys have good luck with Pertronix. I say if you go Pertronix, buy two, so you have enough spare stuff to fix it on the road. That's because you can't buy spares everywhere.

If you can find a couple of clean junkyard Mopar ECU's cheap they work fine. Not sure I'd buy new parts store ones.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks a lot guys for sticking with me on this. Building an electric car was easier than finding this problem!!!
Probably because old wiring is uncertain.

I do want to take your advice and convert to a electronic ignition. I'm sold. I just need to determine the right pathway.

My friend said that he'd used a Chrysler kit that had the entire set up and a full unit, plug & drive distributor unit. If affordable, I like the idea.

Someone said that it was foolish to buy a replacement distributor if I planned to convert it, and I understand your reasoning, but the distributor cost $35 and a tow home would have been five times that much!

I have had a second person state that they've had real trouble with getting points that don't burn out easily, so I don't know if that's an issue or urban myth.

I'll be researching the conversion this week and I'll let you know.

Thanks again....
 
64ragtop said:
Sad. isn't it? That's why I recommended dealers that cater to car enthusiasts. No personal knowledge that their kits aren't assembled right off the oreilly truck at the back door, but one can always hope. I keep trying to be optimistic that enough returns will wake the industry up. Then, in my darker moments, I think that no matter how cynical I get - I can't keep up!! But we're wandering off topic here, and no help to the original poster.
sorry. guy!

BC
Click to expand...

You know, I Grok!

The included distributor's condensor was showing high resistance when I ran a meter over it, indicating that it was not functional out of the box, forcing me to get the replacement.

It seems that businesses are depending upon volume of sales to make up for quality of product...:sad1:
 
A condensor is supposed to have infinite resistance, like all ideal capacitors.

Since you have a small block engine, cheapest is to buy a new ready-to-run HEI distributor ($45 ebay). Simple wiring connections. The Mopar electronic kits are quite difficult to wire and cost >$150. HEI gives a stronger spark, especially if you get an e-core coil (~$20 ebay). Many posts here, mostly good reviews though one guy reported he has seen failures of the distributor bearing (or bushing) in a few customer cars.
 
BillGrissom said:
.....

Since you have a small block engine, cheapest is to buy a new ready-to-run HEI distributor ($45 ebay). Simple wiring connections. The Mopar electronic kits are quite difficult to wire and cost >$150. HEI gives a stronger spark, especially if you get an e-core coil (~$20 ebay). Many posts here, mostly good reviews though one guy reported he has seen failures of the distributor bearing (or bushing) in a few customer cars.
Click to expand...

FWIW, I really like the idea of the all-in-one distributor, but I'm still not buying chinese if I can help it. If those were US built and maybe had real bearings, they'd cost at least $150.

Not to be argumentative, but I'll stand by my recommendation of a MOPAR kit from a reputable performance oriented shop. Since the O.P. is a relative newbie to our wonderful MOPAR world, I think the great deal of info available on switching points for MOPAR electronic ignition offers the best option for him.

Of course, as always, I might be wrong!

BC
 
Well, I've done a few things and have some info to share.

I replaced the ballast resister, but the new one started smoking. I then attached 1 30 MAMP LED to the ballast resister with a 1W 1K resister to test power flow but fond no disruptions.

I've since attached the simple tester to the coil, noting flickering and dimming.

The alternator regulator is between the two, as well as two harness connections, so I am not searching for a short. This isn't really a starting problem anymore as much as a running problem. I'm going to swap out the voltage regulator this week, since the old one had some badly frayed wires and corrosion, but I am not confident that it's the problem as much as a consequence of where ever my short is.

Until I determine the short, I'm going to hold off adding the electronic distributor. No sense in risking more equipment.

On another note, a peer advised that I should be wary of using the smaller fuel filters, as that they might restrict gas flow. To be safe, I replaced the in-line filter with a model compatible with what the shop manual recommends, about 2 1/2 times as much volume. I'm trying to limit contributing factors of the fuel side as I chase the electric one.

Slainte,
 
A smoking ballast is probably not a problem. You should not leave the key "on" for long without engine running, it will either cook the points or the coil. The ballasts DO run hot, and even a little oil / grease from your fingers is likely to cause some smoke and smell.

Make sure you have a compatible coil. Download a service manual. The coil and ballast resistances are back in the "specs" in the electrical section, Chapter 8
 
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