Surface rust prep before sound deadning

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67notchb

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Hi All, I will be redoing the interior on my 67 notch back barracuda and am interested in how you guys prep before laying down a sound deadning material. The floors front and back are original and solid with light surface rust. I want to put something on the surface rust to stop it from getting worse before the deadning material to make sure no issues happen later down the road. how have you guys gone about doing this?

Any thoughts? Recommendations on deadning material you have had good experiences with would be appreciated also.

Thanks FABO!
 
I am not doing show cars but If it is good after 50 years and not rusted through, I use Corroseal to convert whatever is there to Iron tannate which also acts as a primer. I then spray that with a topcoat.
 
POR-15 system is the business! Not cheap but will prevent rust. Sealed. You need to buy their degreaser and rust prep.
 
Yep, i would use some sort of Paint Over Rust product. Clean and degrease then have at it.
Eastwood has their version in spray cans or brush on. Spray cans make it easy.
Do NOT get it on your skin as it takes a few days to wear off. Just ask anyone who has used it.
 
Rustolem makes a nice rust converter. As mentioned above, do some sanding and cleaning then rust converter. Converts it to primer - Then you could paint over that
 
I wire brushed all the old floorpans in Vixen after I replaced the rear pans and went over all of it with Rustoleum DTM oil based industrial rust proofing paint. I brushed it on. Thick and unthinned. Once completely dry, I applied KilMat.
 
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Rethink the sound deadener if you are concerned about weight. That stuff will add 100- 150 lbs.
The car shows keep pushing lizard skin
 
Pray like H*ll you never have to take off the Sound deadener. For any reason. You will hate yourself for ever putting it on. Plus the weight is not worth it. Good luck on your quest.
 
It isn't like this is something that you can't get to. You are about to cover it with a water impermeable barrier which means that any moisture that gets between the floor and the insulation is trapped against the floor. IMHO - Take a grinder with a wire cup and strip the floor, protect with epoxy primer and good enamel paint.
 
It isn't like this is something that you can't get to. You are about to cover it with a water impermeable barrier which means that any moisture that gets between the floor and the insulation is trapped against the floor. IMHO - Take a grinder with a wire cup and strip the floor, protect with epoxy primer and good enamel paint.

With that line of thinking, just leave it bare metal, because paint is also water impermeable. You also trap moisture when you paint. Nothing you can do about it. Metal must have oxygen to rust. Seal it and no rust will take place. That's not opinion, that's scientific fact.

That's why you can take a car 60 years later, scrape off the factory undercoating and the floor is perfect. Had they done that on BOTH sides, the inside would be just as perfect.

As for sound deadener, I look at it as permanent. Why in hell would I ever want to remove it?
 
If there is no oxygen, steel won't rust. POR seals to air.

So does any regular paint. The problem with regular paint is it needs a good priming system to last, so it gets expensive. If prepped right and a good rust proofing DTM is used, such as Rustoleum, or any of its competitors, the metal will be sealed and no priming is required since it is a DTM product.
 
Had they done that on BOTH sides, the inside would be just as perfect.

In 1985 I freshened up my Ragtop. I undercoated the inside floor pan. 2017 when I started my resto I was glad I did I only had to replace 1 small section of floor that was already rusting back in 85.Word of caution. You need to let the undercoat completely dry before reassembly. Ask me how I know lol.
 
I spent the last few months researching sound deadener for my current project. Most of the companies that make the stuff sell their thickest material (like Dynapad) without an adhesive backing. When I think about havng a car for a long time this makes real sense to me. Periodically I have the desire to do things to the cars (are they ever done?) and I can see lots of situations when I will be glad to be able to pull the carpeting, removing the floor deadener material and being able to work on something and then put it all back in. For example, welding anything on the floor pan. Everyone is familiar with the stiffening troughs put in the floor board. Even if you use an adhesive material, the chance of getting all that stuff flush on the floor with no pockets is a fantasy. With no adhesive there are going to be all sorts of spaces between the floor pan and the deadener. That is obviously not going to be the case when a well prepped and painted floorpan gets wet. Then if there is some unexpected leak into the floor pan (water, a Big Gulp. leaking heater core...), you can pull all the stuff on the floor out, get the moisture out, dry everything and reinstall.
 
I haven't heard of anyone using the Lizard skin at all. I asked this years back when I was doing my Hardtop but skipped sound deadening because I did not want to be the 1st to write about a bad experience. Car is loud. Kinda wish I put something down. Obviously I still can.
 
Adhesive sound deadening has been used on vehicles since about the mid to late 70s. If it caused trapped moisture and made cars rust out, we'd know about it. The auto makers are still using it. If it was a problem child, they wouldn't.
 
Hi All, thanks for all the replies and opinions. Sounds like the POR kit is the way to go. Ive used POR before and liked it but always wonder about the converters if they are a good alternative. The car has the origonal paint and seam sealer on the floors, should I remove the seam sealer, grind and paint the floors and re apply the seam sealer? Im not too worried about weight as Im building the car to be a daily/ weekend driver, looking for comfort and mild performance. Im not going to be driving the car when its raining and it will be stored under cover so it shouldn't see much moisture but trapping moisture mostly condensation that can build up underneath the carpet is a concern of mine. Ive looked at lizard skin for other projects but could never bring myself to buy the special gun and have the permanency of the stuff, if I ever needed to do any floor work, Id imagine its much harder to remove than a mat deadner.
 
Hi All, thanks for all the replies and opinions. Sounds like the POR kit is the way to go. Ive used POR before and liked it but always wonder about the converters if they are a good alternative. The car has the origonal paint and seam sealer on the floors, should I remove the seam sealer, grind and paint the floors and re apply the seam sealer? Im not too worried about weight as Im building the car to be a daily/ weekend driver, looking for comfort and mild performance. Im not going to be driving the car when its raining and it will be stored under cover so it shouldn't see much moisture but trapping moisture mostly condensation that can build up underneath the carpet is a concern of mine. Ive looked at lizard skin for other projects but could never bring myself to buy the special gun and have the permanency of the stuff, if I ever needed to do any floor work, Id imagine its much harder to remove than a mat deadner.

Worst case scenario with the sound deadener, you'd need a heat gun and scraper. Much the same as people remove under coating. Somewhat of a pain, but doable. If the seam sealer is in good shape, I'm not sure I'd remove it. You're gonna need to at least probably need to scuff the paint with maybe scotch brite to make sure the POR15 adheres good. Also, I don't know if you're aware, but ultra violet light breaks POR15 down, so unless you put sound deadener on top of it, it will need to be top coated.
 
Your right and if its something I need to work on that bad scrapping the deadner will be the least of my worries. the sealer is in good condition so it might be vest if I leave it and paint over it. I am aware of that. I was planning on installing the carpet over everything once Im done.
 
I used some sound deadener from my local box store (as opposed to spray on). They also make a thin underlayment material that I placed behind my door cards. Has been great for sound deadening and insulating. Inexpensive too.

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Yup. Condensation is the big enemy. Car covers, unheated garages are little help against that source of moisture and it gets in everywhere!
Carpet with the jute? backing is pretty effective.
Depending on where the car was original sold and optioned, the floor may or may not have undercoating.

Honestly I wouldn't put any sticky type deadner in.
Only place I did that was the roof of my Grand? Wagoneer - and this week I was dealing with the consequenses. I did it to better insulate against the heat of the sun in the summer. Maybe it helped a little but its a royal PIA when it comes time for repairs. I can't say I regret doing it but would not do it again.

Rust 'converters' are OK. The magnatite or whatever you want it is fairly stable but needs to sealed. It's similar to "bluing" processes except you can't use oil for the moisture proection.
It will need primer and top coats. Preferably a topcoat with very low moisture permeability.
Like RRR I've had pretty good experience with Rustoleum's rusty metal primer. Good in terms of doing what it says. The stupic aerosol cans always seem to clog up. I've pretty much given up on their spay cans.
I've also had good experience with Corroless primer (AFAIK not currently available in USA :( )
The only 'one coat' rusty metal product I think is decent is Hammerite. it sometimes takes two coats and requires very good ventilation - the fumes are very strong. It's a styrenated something or another and generally nothing else can be painted over it at least for a few months.

If there is no oxygen, steel won't rust. POR seals to air.
That's what we thought but the first part can be tricky. It needs proper prep. Any crevices or rust bubbles that aren't busted down and cleaned away will eventually grow rust. Been there, done that.
That said, POR15 is a good epoxy paint with very low moisture permeability.
 
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Yup. Condensation is the big enemy. Car covers, unheated garages are little help against that source of moisture and it gets in everywhere!
Carpet with the jute? backing is pretty effective.
Depending on where the car was original sold and optioned, the floor may or may not have undercoating.

Honestly I wouldn't put any sticky type deadner in.
Only place I did that was the roof of my Grand? Wagoneer - and this week I was dealing with the consequenses. I did it to better insulate against the heat of the sun in the summer. Maybe it helped a little but its a royal PIA when it comes time for repairs. I can't say I regret doing it but would not do it again.

Rust 'converters' are OK. The magnatite or whatever you want it is fairly stable but needs to sealed. It's similar to "bluing" processes except you can't use oil for the moisture proection.
It will need primer and top coats. Preferably a topcoat with very low moisture permeability.
Like RRR I've had pretty good experience with Rustoleum's rusty metal primer. Good in terms of doing what it says. The stupic aerosol cans always seem to clog up. I've pretty much given up on their spay cans.
I've also had good experience with Corroless primer (AFAIK not currently available in USA :( )
The only 'one coat' rusty metal product I think is decent is Hammerite. it sometimes takes two coats and requires very good ventilation - the fumes are very strong. It's a styrenated something or another and generally nothing else can be painted over it at least for a few months.


That's what we thought but the first part can be tricky. It needs proper prep. Any crevices or rust bubbles that aren't busted down and cleaned away will eventually grow rust. Been there, done that.
That said, POR15 is a good epoxy paint with very low moisture permeability.

Oh they're absolutely horrible! The quality of aerosol paints has plummeted. It's not the paint itself, but the dispenser. Yet the prices keep going up. Ridiculous.
 
POR15 rust treatment is not an epoxy product.
You may be right.
When it was first on the market there was only one variety and it would deteriorate when exposed to UV - same issue as was typical with epoxy coatings.

Since then they now sell a multi-step system for rust preventative applications. Looking at their current website I can't tell you which is their original product. My guess is its the Rust Preventative Coating rather than the top coating.

According to the post here by a 'former employee' the POR-15 of the 1970s/80s was a moisture curing urethane. Much of that post aligns with information that is true. For example the statement about aluminum pigments aligns with the USDA's Forest Product Laboratories published tests of moisture permeability of finish compostions (for use on wood structures).

Interesting topic. Later I'll go check on some architectural metal that got the full treatment over 10 years ago. I'm now curious how its held up (it was not my job, but I was working on another project on the same building).
 
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