The horse is dead

[Newbomb Turk]

I’m wondering were Mancini rockers really 1.6 to 1

You and me both. Or does it measure 1.6 unloaded and 1.56 or so loaded.

We may never know because I doubt the OP is going to check that and, pushrod length matters because it affects rocker ratio.

 

[Kern Dog]

80% of the guys on here would NEVER consider setting up their own gear sets, but they expect aftermarket rockers with a higher ratio to fall right on.

The 1.6 ratio ones I bought from Mancini Racing fit my Edelbrock heads in the 440/495 but now we are off topic.
Hughes did have a helpful graphic for the spacers and shims in the rocker arm kit. That is excellent. The Mancini kit I got had NO instructions.
Lots of times we trial fit things and see where we have to reshape something, relocate a bracket or something. Me? I know to expect it but if you just paid $1100 for something and wasn’t advised that you’d have to grind more space to get pushrods to fit….after putting the heads on?
Yeah… to a seasoned engine builder, it isn’t such a big deal. Neither is the simple addition of a warning that it may be needed.
Hey….Dave isn’t the only vendor that does this crap. I’ve bought stuff and gone to install it only to find no instructions inside (download from our website!) then learn that more parts are required to complete the assembly. Example: Liftmaster garage door opener. It wasn’t until I was home with the box open and the other opener removed that I learned that I had to get some additional brackets hybrid harness and stuff to complete the job.
That is lazy. The vendors can do better.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

The 1.6 ratio ones I bought from
Mancini Racing fit my Edelbrock heads in the 440/495 but now we are off topic.
Hughes did have a helpful graphic for the spacers and shims in the rocket arm kit. That is excellent. The Mancini kit I got had NO instructions.

Ok. I get that. What you and others are missing is the rest of the system.

Like valve stem height.
Rocker shaft placement.
Roller tip diameter.
Overall length of the rocker.

All that and more can make one set of rockers drop on and another not fit without some work.

The issue is again, lack of experience.

If you (not you in particular but you in general) don’t understand how the stem height of the valve and the diameter of the roller change how a rocker fits then we can’t even have a reasonable discussion of why something didn’t fit and another brand did.

BTW, I didn’t read the whole thread. Just the OP and then from where I jumped in. Did the OP mention what heads he has?

That makes a difference too.

Edit: J heads. Those heads have a pretty small pushrod tunnel.

BTW, I had to modify my heads to take PRW rockers. Not because the rockers are junk, but because that’s the nature of the job.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

The 1.6 ratio ones I bought from
Mancini Racing fit my Edelbrock heads in the 440/495 but now we are off topic.
Hughes did have a helpful graphic for the spacers and shims in the rocker arm kit. That is excellent. The Mancini kit I got had NO instructions.
Lots of times we trial fit things and see where we have to reshape something, relocate a bracket or something. Me? I know to expect it but if you just paid $1100 for something and wasn’t advised that you’d have to grind more space to get pushrods to fit….after putting the heads on?
Yeah… to a seasoned engine builder, it isn’t such a big deal. Neither is the simple addition of a warning that it may be needed.
Hey….Dave isn’t the only vendor that does this crap. I’ve bought stuff and gone to install it only to find no instructions inside (download from our website!) then learn that more parts are required to complete the assembly. Example: Liftmaster garage door opener. It wasn’t until I was home with the box open and the other opener removed that I learned that I had to get some additional brackets hybrid harness and stuff to complete the job.
That is lazy. The vendors can do better.

And if Dave is still selling those shitty flat shims he should be dog cussed for that.

 

[9secRR]

Come on, man.
Look at your screen name and your avatar. Your persona feeds directly into supporting my argument.
The man seems to get along fine with seasoned racers that are well experienced. He clearly has a problem dealing with people that aren’t at your level.
Want to take a wild guess as to what the percentage is of guys like you versus guys like the OP?
If you are happy with your experiences with him, that is great. Maybe the man doesn’t care to expand his sales numbers. He might be doing fine.
I’d dare to state that the majority of guys that own classic cars have not rebuilt a single engine. They may have bought “crate engines” and installed them but as you get deeper into the nuts and bolts of it all, guys like you get fewer in numbers.
Wouldn’t it be smart to appeal to as many customers as you can?

what does my screen name and avatar have to do with any of this?

so if i'm happy with my experiences with Hughes, why can't i say it? the OP has a different opinion and he can voice it but i can't?

remember there is ALWAYS two sides to every story.

 

[Babyblue66]

I don't know. Is the checking pushrod adjuster sleeve resting on the tunnel wall?

View attachment 1716361905

Sucks about the issue, lots of fun and hurdles building these old girls.

Yes, it resting on the head.

 

[Bodyperson]

So here's the Mancini 1.6 rockers I got. They are made by Harland Sharp.
Tell me why Hughes can't make theirs line up with the pushrods better. But according to Newbomb, I should've known how poorly they were going to fit in advance. And it's not Dave's fault having to answer questions about the $1072.00 rocker arms he sells. That poor guy Dave, he has it so rough having to help paying customers. If having to answer questions gets him that emotional, he should stay off the phone.

View attachment 1716361847

I read all of the posts. Are these the same rockers you discussed in post number eight?

 

[moparmark65]

Two quick thoughts. Dave Hugh’s is an asshole.. dealt with him before.. he stands behind his reputation!! 2) 1.5’s are plug and play. They don’t tell you what is necessary for 1.6’s. The end!

 

[Babyblue66]

See, those adjusted are so far in... that you can't even see a thread, and that would change the position dramatically...I think they would have fit and Dave screwed up by just being a Dave...

I did adjust them all the way in, still needed a good amount of head clearancing. Doesn't matter at this point.

 

[Babyblue66]

Two quick thoughts. Dave Hugh’s is an asshole.. dealt with him before.. he stands behind his reputation!! 2) 1.5’s are plug and play. They don’t tell you what is necessary for 1.6’s. The end!

And had his attitude been better, I would've just exchanged for a set of 1.5s. Since I was not going to take the heads apart to machine them.

 

[Babyblue66]

Yes, a

I read all of the posts. Are these the same rockers you discussed in post number eight?

Yes, but they have their own issues. The roller tip isn't centered exactly. I'm sure they'd be fine but I like a litte better sweep. called Mancini. The guy was very helpful. He sent pics to Harland Sharp because he said he's never seen that issue on stock iron heads. So we'll see what they say. If I can't resolve this issue, I'll just put some 273 rockers on and be done with it.

 

[Bodyperson]

Yes, a

Yes, but they have their own issues. The roller tip isn't centered exactly. I'm sure they'd be fine but I like a litte better sweep. called Mancini. The guy was very helpful. He sent pics to Harland Sharp because he said he's never seen that issue on stock iron heads. So we'll see what they say. If I can't resolve this issue, I'll just put some 273 rockers on and be done with it.

The reason I asked is that I am wondering if the sweep issue was resolved by relocating them that you might have the same pushrod interference issue.

 

[Babyblue66]

T

what does my screen name and avatar have to do with any of this?

so if i'm happy with my experiences with Hughes, why can't i say it? the OP has a different opinion and he can voice it but i can't?

remember there is ALWAYS two sides to every story.

And I'm sure his side would say how I didn't know what I was talking about etc etc.
I emailed Hughes about that particular 340 for a camshaft last fall. I put all engine specs and car specs in the e-mail. The response I got was, "fill out the form on our website." I don't know what other relevant information he wanted. It was all there. So I went to clay smith. The old dude I talked to there was great. We talked for 20 minutes. He was happy to talk to me and I enjoyed talking to him. He was interested in what I was doing and excited to get me a cam. So, will my Clay Smith cam make as much power as a comparable Hughes, probably not. But I'd buy another one in a heartbeat before Hughes.

 

[Babyblue66]

The reason I asked is that I am wondering if the sweep issue was resolved by relocating them that you might have the same pushrod interference issue.

Actually, If I could move them back just a little, towards the intake side of the head, they'd be perfect. I contacted the B3 guy to see what he says.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Yes, a

Yes, but they have their own issues. The roller tip isn't centered exactly. I'm sure they'd be fine but I like a litte better sweep. called Mancini. The guy was very helpful. He sent pics to Harland Sharp because he said he's never seen that issue on stock iron heads. So we'll see what they say. If I can't resolve this issue, I'll just put some 273 rockers on and be done with it.

That right there says the geometry needs to be corrected.

A narrow sweep off center is far better than a wide, centered sweep.

A sweep wider than .060 is not good.

 

[moparmark65]

Harlan/ Sharp you can’t go wrong. They are some of the more spendy ones out there, but one of the best if not the best on the market. that’s what I went with on my small block build..

 

[Babyblue66]

Because if all he said was modifications required you’d still be lost.

The fact is the OP is evidently not qualified to install after rockers.

Do rear axle gears come with instructions? They give you whet me they need to be set, but there isn’t a technical paper to explain every nuance of setting up gear sets.

80% of the guys on here would NEVER consider setting up their own gear sets, but they expect aftermarket rockers with a higher ratio to fall right on.

Ive never had to grind a **** ton of metal to make a gearset fit. Pointless comparison.

 

[lead69]

Yes, a

Yes, but they have their own issues. The roller tip isn't centered exactly. I'm sure they'd be fine but I like a litte better sweep. called Mancini. The guy was very helpful. He sent pics to Harland Sharp because he said he's never seen that issue on stock iron heads. So we'll see what they say. If I can't resolve this issue, I'll just put some 273 rockers on and be done with it.

The hughes rocker has no pushrod clearance due to centering the roller with stock rocker stand locations. The mancini rockers have pushrod clearance but the roller is off center to the outside making them seem effectively "longer", that is why they fit trickflow heads so well since they have relocated rocker stands. The reason the guy from mancini has never heard of this before is because most guys just run shitty geometry and don't know any better. My advice to anyone not putting together a "custom" engine is put 273 rockers on and be done with it, otherwise do the research, figure out the compromise and call Mike at B3. I do agree Dave can be an *** but it's his business and he can run it the way he wants, doesn't mean he's right or a nice guy but the beauty is you can choose not to buy from him. Speaking for myself if I cut off everybody in the hobby who has pissed me off I would have very limited options to do business with lol.

 

[moparmark65]

I might be wrong here, but I think you are suppose to use a shorter pushrod with the 1.6. Also.. I’m not completely onboard with lead69’s analogy, but I’m old school. You treat people right, you make money, you also get return business. I’ve dealt with places that I don’t see eye to eye, yes continues with the transaction, but that was the last time I dealt with them.. anyway, mistakes were made on both sides.. but it could have had a happy ending if handled right by the ones that knew better!

 

[Kern Dog]

what does my screen name and avatar have to do with any of this?

so if i'm happy with my experiences with Hughes, why can't i say it? the OP has a different opinion and he can voice it but i can't?

remember there is ALWAYS two sides to every story.

You may not know it but I don't write in cryptic messages that require real deep interpretation. Most of the time, I'm pretty straightforward so when someone doesn't understand what I wrote, I start to question the intellect of other people.

Come on, man.
Look at your screen name and your avatar.

What would you think if you saw a screen name of 9 second Road Runner coupled with a picture of their race car?
Me? I think of a guy that owns a fast race car and likely knows a LOT about making a car run fast and hard.
Look at the majority of other screen names and pictures of members. YOU are obviously operating at a higher level of engine performance than the average member here.
How can this be hard to understand?
To further explain....
We have two very different perspectives at play here....
1) The hard core gear heads (Including you) that have far more experience dealing with engines far removed from stock levels of performance.
2) The other guys (including me) that do dabble in the higher performance stuff but don't live and breath it at the same level as guys like you.
It appears to me that the #1 crowd gets along with Dave because they are of the same mindset whereas the #2 crowd annoys Dave sometimes and he isn't courteous enough to tolerate those that aren't as experienced.
It really is as simple as that.

 

[Babyblue66]

I’m wondering were Mancini rockers really 1.6 to 1

Yes they are, I measured lift with a dial Indicator.

 

[Babyblue66]

I might be wrong here, but I think you are suppose to use a shorter pushrod with the 1.6. Also.. I’m not completely onboard with lead69’s analogy, but I’m old school. You treat people right, you make money, you also get return business. I’ve dealt with places that I don’t see eye to eye, yes continues with the transaction, but that was the last time I dealt with them.. anyway, mistakes were made on both sides.. but it could have had a happy ending if handled right by the ones that knew better!

Hindsight is 20/20. I guess the next time I have issues with something, I'll have to talk to the guy on the other end like they have a very fragile ego and are very sensitive. That way I don't risk getting a response like I did from Dave.

"hello this is Dave what's your problem?"

"Please all knowing mopar guru, can you assist me with your vast and superior knowledge. Alas I am but a humble and slightly retarded peasant trying to build an engine with much less IQ than your lordship. I give thee permission to speak to me as if I'm nothing but a steaming pile of dog doo. It is my privilege to give you my hard earned money though I expect no help nor respect in return. Thank you, thank you for this amazing opportunity. "

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Ive never had to grind a **** ton of metal to make a gearset fit. Pointless comparison.

Unreal. Are you this obtuse in the real world?

You are using stock heads. What are your stem heights?

If you don’t know that you don’t have a clue.

If grinding on a cylinder head, of which we know nothing about makes you that pissed off its time for you to take up checkers.

Let me know what the stem height is, or a close guesstimate. That may explain why they didn’t just bolt right on.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Hindsight is 20/20. I guess the next time I have issues with something, I'll have to talk to the guy on the other end like they have a very fragile ego and are very sensitive. That way I don't risk getting a response like I did from Dave.

"hello this is Dave what's your problem?"

"Please all knowing mopar guru, can you assist me with your vast and superior knowledge. Alas I am but a humble and slightly retarded peasant trying to build an engine with much less IQ than your lordship. I give thee permission to speak to me as if I'm nothing but a steaming pile of dog doo. It is my privilege to give you my hard earned money though I expect no help nor respect in return. Thank you, thank you for this amazing opportunity. "

You told him his rockers didn’t fit. He knew right there he couldn’t help you.

No one can unless they bow down and kiss your ring.

H

 

[Newbomb Turk]

You may not know it but I don't write in cryptic messages that require real deep interpretation. Most of the time, I'm pretty straightforward so when someone doesn't understand what I wrote, I start to question the intellect of other people.


What would you think if you saw a screen name of 9 second Road Runner coupled with a picture of their race car?
Me? I think of a guy that owns a fast race car and likely knows a LOT about making a car run fast and hard.
Look at the majority of other screen names and pictures of members. YOU are obviously operating at a higher level of engine performance than the average member here.
How can this be hard to understand?
To further explain....
We have two very different perspectives at play here....
1) The hard core gear heads (Including you) that have far more experience dealing with engines far removed from stock levels of performance.
2) The other guys (including me) that do dabble in the higher performance stuff but don't live and breath it at the same level as guys like you.
It appears to me that the #1 crowd gets along with Dave because they are of the same mindset whereas the #2 crowd annoys Dave sometimes and he isn't courteous enough to tolerate those that aren't as experienced.
It really is as simple as that.

The number 2 crowd either needs to learn more or pay someone to do this **** for them.

I don’t know in what world bolting on aftermarket rockers with a dozen areas to go wrong is thought to be as easy as replacing stock rockers with stock rockers.

That ain’t Dave’s fault.