Times we live in.

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Asktoro

Asktoro

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You hear the old farts talk about how back then when 'American made' meant something. Raw steel, quality, pride. It wasn't about a buck, it was about reputation and passion. I was a kid back then, now I'm older and Wal-mart is the biggest supermarket chain...

I've bought stuff from them, I've bought parts from dealers who export. Stuff falls apart on you, is cheap, breaks, flimsy. You suddenly get the gist of what they're talking bout and take on the mentality.

Though... when you think about it, it's not that everyone's greedy or crooked. It's just the honest folks can't survive and keep up without playing dirty as well.

For the first time ever I had money to buy a new challenger back in 08, I sat in one... the car felt cheap. The dash, the shifter, even the seats, the knobs.... every freakin part in that car felt like it would break into a million bits if i even so bumped it the wrong way.

How many of you have bought stuff from walmart? Have it break? I go through 2 coffee makers per year. Ever have rockers you bought from a company once reputable only to snap in half at 5600 rpm and screw up your 2,000 buck heads? Yep been there...

Worst of it? Even when we pay out the *** for what we think is quality, we find ourselves shouting all sorts of expletives.

Few things haven't changed, the old school cars are still there, still running, may have a few new parts but they're just as good if not better than the newest hunk of chinese plastic on the market.

I'm almost 30, I kinda wonder what sort of world my children will have to grow up in when it comes to that. Will it ever get better, or are we going to continue to submit to greed at the sacrifice of our soul? Money is **** :|
 
We are living in a throw away world and wonder why landfills are filling up at a rapid rate. Until America changes she cannot reach her past glory.
 
Things which have killed our once great country :

- Rampant Environmentalism .
Certainly there was some legitimacy to certain acts , but now the EPA is just another fat cat bureaucracy with way too much funding .
Until much of this b.s. is pared-back , the economy will not be able to grow ; or , in this case , rebuild .

- Social Programmes .
Welfare in its purest form is alright . It was set up to help citizens whom were facing hard times , on a temporary basis . Now , it's a free-for-all ; it's another leech which sucks money from the Working Class' paychecks .

- Corporate Greed .
U.S. companies bask in the idea that there's cheap labour to be had .
Nixon opened the door to China , and Clinton ran-in **** in the kitchen .
Even now a days , when one sees "Made in USA" on a product , there's a very good chance that it was made by non-citizens/cheap labour .
This also ties back in with the first point : rampant environmentalism .

There's more to this , but I've gotta leave for work in a scant few minutes ... perhaps I'll divulge later tonight ...
 
You getting disillusioned about the fate of America and you are only 30? I am a whole gen older than you and have lived through what I think was the high point of America and the decline since. I believe that I will live in continued decline into desperate socialism (welfare state) and when that collapses (as it will soon) it will be much worse. IMO the trouble started when they began buying votes with the LBJ great society and accellerated when Nixon took our dollar off the gold standard which opened the printing presses fully.

Ain't a pretty picture and you guys in the next generation will have it much worse than we did, and I have had it pretty rough at times. Learned about money from having none and being hungry, a real hard core saver now and nowhere to invest those savings safely.

Not to mention peak oil production in the face of growing demand globally. The whole point of having the hot rod fish I suppose is a last hurrah for the age of gasoline. Do some burnouts while they still can be done I suppose.

That said, I hope everybody has a safe and great celebration of Independance Day despite celebrating in the times of TSA gropedowns, legal home invasions by cops, cop DUI/checkout roadblocks, and a government that is fighting to keep themselves in power by bankrupting it's citizens.
 
I agree with what has been said.

There is another component too, many people are rampant consumers who buy stuff they don't need, the latest gadgets, all sorts of non-essential items, that are all made 'over there.'

One way to buy American is to shop at thrift stores, yard sales/estate sales, swap meets, etc., but it is getting harder and harder to find Made In USA stuff even in those places. It's a great feeling when you do.
 
IMO companies are making stuff cheaper and less durable so the companies get more money out of us.

Being only 16 i still see what your talking about, and to me some car makers are making it so you HAVE to take a new car to the dealer to get work done.
 
D-man313 said:
IMO companies are making stuff cheaper and less durable so the companies get more money out of us.

Being only 16 i still see what your talking about, and to me some car makers are making it so you HAVE to take a new car to the dealer to get work done.
Click to expand...

And that's why I will never own one...

As far as paying more for a better item??

"Quality is long remembered after the price is forgotten about".

I am 29 and if I can possibly buy American, that's what I am gonna do. VERY difficult in these times though.
 
Asktoro said:
You hear the old farts talk about how back then when 'American made' meant something. Raw steel, quality, pride. It wasn't about a buck, it was about reputation and passion. ...
Click to expand...


I guess I'm now one of those old farts. I founded my company based on quality work and pride of craftsmanship, and am highly passionate about it. It honestly barely pays the bills LOL but I wouldn't want to change a thing.

It'll be tough taking our country back to its roots but it must be done for self-preservation and to ensure a decent place for future generations. Bring on the Revolution!
 
Chaos is the great equalizer of change, and horror makes people look -- like a car wreck you just have to rubberneck. You feel guilty about it. Seems when all method of a peaceful resolution are exhausted, people resort to the most primitive, and effective method of negotiation -- violence. I'd like to think Obama's doing ok, better than what Bush was doing but god..... what a hellva mess.

As for gasoline, oil and burn-outs. Yeah, I'll keep doing burn outs til I die! It may not be with gasoline, the tires may end up changing, but I'll find a way, even if it'd be illegal. Not out of an act of rebellion, but out of an act of respect to those times and what they represented, truly we may never be free but we all have times of memories when we were happier, ignorant to the world and only worrying about kid stuff. For some, model air planes, the newest bicycle, a telescope, for others ninja turtles and super soakers, for this generation rock band and ipods.

Also, when I say old farts, trust me Its out of respect, some of you guys might even helped design my favorite engine or car, or did something amazing at the race track.

My dad was an old school racer and laid down some records in Calif, LA. He always goes on about telling me goofy tricks like a coffee can full of ice and wrapping the fuel lines around it and other old school stuff.
 
Asktoro said:
For the first time ever I had money to buy a new challenger back in 08, I sat in one... the car felt cheap. The dash, the shifter, even the seats, the knobs.... every freakin part in that car felt like it would break into a million bits if i even so bumped it the wrong way.
Click to expand...

So...have you ever sat in a 70-74 Challenger? Times haven't changed that much. LOL!
 
I haven't really lived through any high point in America, unfortunately I'm stuck with what the past generation has created for my future :( Maybe that's why I love working on older cars...taking apart a new car scares the sh*t out of me...so many plastic snappable tabs!
 
Hard to explain, but watched my Dad do the quality versus buck dance up until he closed the engine shop. Highest reputation also highest dollar, but it was a quality piece. Mentality of people , they could find 1000.00 to do whatever it was 3x and still have junk in the end but couldn't warrent 3000.00 once for a quality piece that would last. There's going to be two types of people shortly, those that can help themselves and those that pay unfortunatley for those that can pay money isn't going to mean sh*t to those that can !
 
chryslerfat said:
We are living in a throw away world and wonder why landfills are filling up at a rapid rate. Until America changes she cannot reach her past glory.
Click to expand...


That is so true. Was not like that years ago.

I will be using some thing of my dads and am always asking him where he got this nice tool or what ever it is. He always says. "O Thats some thing I have had sence I was 8 or so". Or "that was grampas, he gave it to me back in the 60's and it was very old then".
 
ckj688 said:
taking apart a new car scares the sh*t out of me...so many plastic snappable tabs!
Click to expand...

x2 id rather work on something that is 40,50, or 60 years old. I love the fact that i can work on my own stuff and not have to pay through the nose when something goes wrong. It only cost me money for the part, and my time, but i would rather spend the day in the garage than in front of the tv.
 
Asktoro said:
You hear the old farts talk about how back then when 'American made' meant something. Raw steel, quality, pride. It wasn't about a buck, it was about reputation and passion. I was a kid back then, now I'm older and Wal-mart is the biggest supermarket chain...

I've bought stuff from them, I've bought parts from dealers who export. Stuff falls apart on you, is cheap, breaks, flimsy. You suddenly get the gist of what they're talking bout and take on the mentality.

Though... when you think about it, it's not that everyone's greedy or crooked. It's just the honest folks can't survive and keep up without playing dirty as well.

For the first time ever I had money to buy a new challenger back in 08, I sat in one... the car felt cheap. The dash, the shifter, even the seats, the knobs.... every freakin part in that car felt like it would break into a million bits if i even so bumped it the wrong way.

How many of you have bought stuff from walmart? Have it break? I go through 2 coffee makers per year. Ever have rockers you bought from a company once reputable only to snap in half at 5600 rpm and screw up your 2,000 buck heads? Yep been there...

Worst of it? Even when we pay out the *** for what we think is quality, we find ourselves shouting all sorts of expletives.

Few things haven't changed, the old school cars are still there, still running, may have a few new parts but they're just as good if not better than the newest hunk of chinese plastic on the market.

I'm almost 30, I kinda wonder what sort of world my children will have to grow up in when it comes to that. Will it ever get better, or are we going to continue to submit to greed at the sacrifice of our soul? Money is **** :|
Click to expand...

You don't know the half of it. American cars have had that plastic feel since the early 80's. So I'm not surprised why you felt what you did when you sat in the Challenger.

Nobody ever forced you into Walmart to buy imported goods. Spend a couple of hundred bucks on a quality coffee machine. Also, not everything in Walmart is imported. I bought a cast iron skillet there "made in the U.S.".

The internet was introduced when the majority of Americans weren't prepared for it. It made life way too easy. We love it for it's benefits. However, it opened the door for competition like you never saw prior to the internet. People were able to buy things cheaper over the internet without setting foot in those "mom and pop" stores. Almost anyone can set up an internet storefront and sell product. Many of these guys can get away with selling cheaper goods because the internet buyer isn't in the store feeling the product out. In other words, there are too many internet shoppers that are way too uneducated. What are the implications? Your retail chains must consolidate and open superstores to drive pricing down even further, and therefore, search for less cheaper goods. This in turn, puts the majority of the "mom and pop" stores out of business.

Let's be clear about one thing. You contributed to "the problem". You could've bought a more expensive, quality coffee maker, but you didn't. You could've spent a couple of hundred $'s more on quality rocker arms, but you didn't. The key is adaptability here and you failed miserably. You have a wealth of information provided by the internet (it's greatest feature), to help you make decisions when buying these types of things. But to me, it seems you wanted to cut corners and go the cheap route. Because if you go the cheap route, you're just as guilty as these companies outsourcing to _________ (insert non-U.S. country).

As for your anger directed towards China? They are today's Mexico. I remember people complaining 20 years ago about goods that were made in Mexico. Today it's China. 20 years from now, you'll hate on India. The bottom line is that this model will not go away. Why? Because you, along with many Americans', want everything cheaper. However, think twice before hating on China, because I can pretty much guarantee you that more than half of the parts (if not all of them) in your computer that you used to type this post with were made in China. I'm assuming your computer has been fairly reliable.

The key is adaptability. I research almost everything before I buy something. I am not an impulse buyer. There are some things you can risk going cheap on (paper plates, chips, even computer components). But when it comes to car parts, (especially moving & complex parts) I'll spend the extra cash for U.S. made parts. I am not afraid of single cast items such as intake manifolds. Aluminum doesn't change properties from country to country. Only items that have moving parts, or associated with moving parts are the ones I stay away from. Although, I am discovering that it's very hard to do as even a lot of the U.S. companies that make cranks have them manufactured in China. I have a decent job, but I'm far from wealthy so I still have to save $ where I can. At the same time, I'm willing to shell out extra bucks for quality.

It's never going to be a perfect situation. However, you have enough resources made available to you on the internet to minimize bad decisions. As for your kids, if you think this world is that bad, then you shouldn't have had them. However, it's all in how you raise your kids. You can either raise them to hate, or raise them to adapt. It's a fast paced society now. You reap the benefits, you have to accept the deficiencies. You gotta take the good with the bad and make the best of it.
 
I am going to go jump off of a cliff now......as to the coffee maker, the wife waits until they are on sale for $6 at Wallyworld and then she buys a few of them. She gets alot of our coffee from one of the online coffee places. Part of there deal was if you signed up for a year you got a machine. The machine outright was near $100 if I remember right. Guess what? It fried in 4 months. We still have the $6 Wally World unit, 9 months later. Price does not mean much on some things.....
 
inkjunkie said:
I am going to go jump off of a cliff now......as to the coffee maker, the wife waits until they are on sale for $6 at Wallyworld and then she buys a few of them. She gets alot of our coffee from one of the online coffee places. Part of there deal was if you signed up for a year you got a machine. The machine outright was near $100 if I remember right. Guess what? It fried in 4 months. We still have the $6 Wally World unit, 9 months later. Price does not mean much on some things.....
Click to expand...

This is true as well...which is why it pays to do some research before you make a purchase.
 
Ahh yes, Made In America. It did mean something 'back in the day".

Post World War II, the US of A was the ONLY industrialized nation not to have its industry bombed into oblivion. We enjoyed economic dominance throughout the 1950s and things were built to last.

As the rest of the world rebuilt their economies in the 1960s, competition from other countries began to creep into the US markets. The age of plastics allowed cheaper parts to be made in the late 1960s.

In the 1970s, foreign products began to seriously challenge home-grown US products. VW Beetles were more reliable than the Ford Pinto. The Toyotoa mini-truck was all the rage for people who didn't want a full-sized US truck. The Mustang II was a piece of crap that began to fall apart mechanically at less than 50,000 miles. The Fisher bodies of GM still began to rattle and shake after only 20,000 miles. Plastics became more prevalent in autos because of the cost of metal. Insurance rates, safety laws, and smog laws killed high performance muscle engines.

Gotta get back to work.

Someone else can summarize the 1980s, and 1990s auto trends.
 
DFX 340 Duster said:
Ahh yes, Made In America. It did mean something 'back in the day".

Post World War II, the US of A was the ONLY industrialized nation not to have its industry bombed into oblivion. We enjoyed economic dominance throughout the 1950s and things were built to last.

As the rest of the world rebuilt their economies in the 1960s, competition from other countries began to creep into the US markets. The age of plastics allowed cheaper parts to be made in the late 1960s.

In the 1970s, foreign products began to seriously challenge home-grown US products. VW Beetles were more reliable than the Ford Pinto. The Toyotoa mini-truck was all the rage for people who didn't want a full-sized US truck. The Mustang II was a piece of crap that began to fall apart mechanically at less than 50,000 miles. The Fisher bodies of GM still began to rattle and shake after only 20,000 miles. Plastics became more prevalent in autos because of the cost of metal. Insurance rates, safety laws, and smog laws killed high performance muscle engines.

Gotta get back to work.

Someone else can summarize the 1980s, and 1990s auto trends.
Click to expand...

U.S. automakers in the 80's finally realized that the future was in economical cars. Unfortunately, they were not prepared to deal with it. The Japanese automakers were already about 10 years ahead in R&D with regards to small engines and small cars. U.S. automakers hit the panic button and made deals with those Japanese companies to sell rebadged products. The 80's Challenger was a rebadged Mitsubishi. The 80's Chevy Nova was a rebadged Toyota. Toyota and Honda took advantage and captured a chunk of the American market. The only way American's could compete was buy selling their cars cheaper (which caused them to use cheaper materials and short cutting quality control). There were some things that the U.S. companies did do well and that was builidng performance cars. The Corvette, Mustang, Grand National and even Chrysler turbo cars were still leading the market in performance. The U.S. did introduce the minivan and SUV (updated and rebranded station wagons).
 
As a child during the Cold War I can (vaguely) rememebr the "duck & cover" exercises in school, fearing the "Red Hoard" from "over there" and can easily recall the finger-pointing & name-calling the superpowers did & the one-upsmanship game they played. I remeber the Cuban Missile Crisis real well & how my parents fervently prayed we survive once the "big one" was dropped.
Still despite ALL that, I never been so affraid of living in this CXountry than I am now!:cry: Our greed, lack of leadership & penalizing those that even HINT of patrioitism truly shows we've lost our American "character" . Our soldiers are the best the World has ever seen, our creativity the envy of everyone-still we have leaders "apologizing" for being "american" and doing their best to make us a Third World country.........Our days are numbered.....
 
Look at some of the consumer and commercial products made in the U.S.A during the Industrial Revolution. A good example could be seen now and then on American Restoration on History Channel. We built things to last because that is what people wanted as the previously blacksmith-made items were relatively very expensive. Mass produced items from that era became much more affordable, yet were still built to the quality Americans expected and the rest of the world learned to desire.
 
In my defense I'm a college student on a budget. I got my block from a junk yard, saved up for the heads and cam since the -real- power was there and never knew that buying parts a little cheaper could kill me in the long run. Now I know, as for my coffee maker... I use the microwave and instant coffee now. Few years later I'm older, wiser, I ask questions, I research. My last muscle car was a cleveland block 68 cougar which I had to sell due to problems listed -- my land lord was a dick and wouldn't give me time to fix it and wanted it out of his driveway (room mate situation) so I sold the engine for $500, parts here and there til I was just down to shell and sold the shell as a parts car to a guy for $100 who was going to cut it up and use it to finish his car. I drive a ford explorer (F me...) currently looking to grab a 70-72 duster that isnt too gone or too nice to cut into and turn it into a street fighter 350-450 hp, rolled bumpers, low stance, good street manners and could be a giant killer..... possibly. So Im looking at a 10,000 buck budget in need of a 1,000-2,000 buck clean shell and a hellva lot of elbow grease and a few years. I already got the block picked out -- r3 340 siameased bores 48 degree valve angle, internals, heads and misc are still up in the air.

Anyways, microwave coffee anit bad.
 
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