Timing Chain vs. Gears vs. ?Roller

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swinginmy73

swinginmy73

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I am getting close to putting my 77 440 (RV) together, I thought it would be a good idea to replace the timing chain,water pump and freeze plugs before install.I was ordering my gasket set when the question came up regarding thereplacement of my timing chain.

My question is, would gears be better vs a chain? And what exactly is a roller motor, double roller chain?

Iwould rather do the best thing for my street/strip motor now as I am not mechanically inclined and doing this all again soon scares the #$%^ out of me,especially, when the 440 is in my Dart. Thanks
 
A roller motor is talking about what kind of cam you are using, a stock flat tappet cam or a retro fit roller cam. I'd go with a double roller chain
 
on a dual purpose car I would go with a true roller with billet sprockets and multiple keyways for adjustability or just get a Cloye's Hex-A-Just which will cost a little more but is very well built and easy to adjust. If it's a track only car I would go with a gear drive (I love that whine!). You will hear different pro's and con's on the GD, some says it transfers the cranks harmonics to the cam and valvetrain but with most modified engines now running a Fluidampr type harmonic balancer I don't see that being an issue but you might want to ask your engine builder.
And when you hear folks talking about roller engines they are talking about roller lifters.
 
A normal chain has a steel pin that joins the links, and the steel gear contacts the pin with it's tooth and pulls it around. A double chain has better pins and more links so they dont stretch under load as much. A double roller chain has a steel sleeve that is around the pin, and the gear contacts the sleeve, and the pin rolls around the tooth. A roller chain has more contact area between the tooth and sleeve, and sleeve and pin, and there's less friction and longer life as a result. I like to run the Summit Billet roller chains. The gears are a little nicer IMO and they arent too expensive.
 
mtandrews said:
on a dual purpose car I would go with a true roller with billet sprockets and multiple keyways for adjustability or just get a Cloye's Hex-A-Just which will cost a little more but is very well built and easy to adjust. If it's a track only car I would go with a gear drive (I love that whine!). You will hear different pro's and con's on the GD, some says it transfers the cranks harmonics to the cam and valvetrain but with most modified engines now running a Fluidampr type harmonic balancer I don't see that being an issue but you might want to ask your engine builder.
And when you hear folks talking about roller engines they are talking about roller lifters.
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In all actuality, I do not have an engine builder, I was only going to put a new chain, water pump and gasket set on it and put it in the Dart. I drove the rv when it had the 72,00o mile 440 in it so i was not planning on a rebuild. I have a 69 440 block that i was going to build for a summer project. My world is backwards, I live in CO during the summer, where I am basically isolated from normal society, so good project time, and then I live in Pheonix in the winter so good cruising weather!
 
moper said:
A normal chain has a steel pin that joins the links, and the steel gear contacts the pin with it's tooth and pulls it around. A double chain has better pins and more links so they dont stretch under load as much. A double roller chain has a steel sleeve that is around the pin, and the gear contacts the sleeve, and the pin rolls around the tooth. A roller chain has more contact area between the tooth and sleeve, and sleeve and pin, and there's less friction and longer life as a result. I like to run the Summit Billet roller chains. The gears are a little nicer IMO and they arent too expensive.
Click to expand...
what he said!
 
Milodon gear drive on my 408 stroker. I like the whine.... :)

120_0678.jpg


enginepic2.jpg


408-1.jpg
 
Pay close attention to the way moper describes the difference. Don't be folled by a "double row" timing set. They are not the same as a true double roller. Be careful because some out there will try to pass one off on you. moper was right on the money.
 
milodon gear drive is what ive put into both my 340 and my 416 stroker keeps timing on the mark plus i love the whine
 
What do you mean "doble row" strokerscamp. Isnt there only two types of chain sets single or double. I've never heard of or seen of a double "row"....

How much was the gear driven milodon sets. Anyone care to elaborate with crank/cam harmonics w/o a fluid dampener. Wouldn't a double roller w/ a tensioner be just as accurate as gear sets. It seams as people go gear driven for the whine to give the false sense that its blowen. I see the point with acuracy but I see a bigger point with harmonics.

Anyone got any opinions withquality and reputation with Avon progear timing sets and PRW dampers. This is what I plan to run on my 408 4x4.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2snTEEnIDI3MywzMTgsMzQwIGFuZCAzNjAgZW5naW5lcw==&level1=VGltaW5nIENoYWluICYgQ29tcG9uZW50&partid=23311

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=category&level0=U21hbGwgQmxvY2snTEEnIDI3MywzMTgsMzQwIGFuZCAzNjAgZW5naW5lcw==&level1=RGFtcGVycw==&partid=25204
 
Factory single chains are flat pcs of steel pinned together. They look like a multi-thicness chain because the are. But the wear surfaces are the edges of the thin plates and the flates of the gears. They are cheap, work, but prone to stretch and even worse for higher rpm work. The "next step is a chain that is basically like a bicycle chain. It's a lot stronger and smother, but they are not strong enough in a single width to really be a performace chain. So they basically pin two sets of links together, making it a "double chain". The cop car 318s and 360s and IIRC 340s had these rather than the link-type single chain.
 
mopar4x4stroker said:
What do you mean "doble row" strokerscamp. Isnt there only two types of chain sets single or double. I've never heard of or seen of a double "row"....

How much was the gear driven milodon sets. Anyone care to elaborate with crank/cam harmonics w/o a fluid dampener. Wouldn't a double roller w/ a tensioner be just as accurate as gear sets. It seams as people go gear driven for the whine to give the false sense that its blowen. I see the point with acuracy but I see a bigger point with harmonics.

Anyone got any opinions withquality and reputation with Avon progear timing sets and PRW dampers. This is what I plan to run on my 408 4x4.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...VGltaW5nIENoYWluICYgQ29tcG9uZW50&partid=23311

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...ZW5naW5lcw==&level1=RGFtcGVycw==&partid=25204
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I bought a PRW for my 408....it didnt even fit.
I dont know if they changed them, but I sure freaking hope so.
 
67Dart273 said:
He's talking about a "fake" chain that looks like a double roller chain but does not have true "roller" links.

True "roller" chain actually has individual rolling sleeves on every single pin that rotate.

The cheaper chains look like a "roller" chain but have solid pins, and don't wear as long.
Click to expand...

Puzackly. Thanks. I missed his question. You also need to be careful which true rollers you get. I've seen some with some real cheap lookin sleeves as rollers. Some of them flat out SUCK. Most of the time with timing sets, you really do get more for your money. The more expensive sete are generally the better ones.
 
POS Dakota said:
I bought a PRW for my 408....it didnt even fit.
I dont know if they changed them, but I sure freaking hope so.
Click to expand...

Yea, thats what I was afraid of... It even says right in the instructions that cranknose may need machining or damper may need to be honed or boiled since its machined undersized :scratch:... It's SFI approved so i figured it would have been of "some" decent quality, but apparently all SFI stands for is Stupid F'n Idiot... What damper did you end up with then. Does it have the deg etched in or is it just some supper adhesive tap like the PRW that I'm sure will start to come of in a matter of a few days.

Hughes(Dave) is the one that recommended me this p.o.s!!! I'm really starting to wounder about hughes. I've heard so many good things about them and was glad to see a mopar only vendor, unfortanatly my experience so far hasn't been so pleasant. They picked a cam that is WAY to big for my application/intentions and they sold me a pos damner that wont even fit... WTF??? Atleast the chain is indeed a true roller (thanks for the clear up btw)... I cant tell the quality of the sleeves buy just spining them or the accuracy of the machining, but for the $130 I paid for it I would sure hope its quality. You guys ever heard of Avon, I sure haven't, but thats not saying much :iconbigg:.

Thanks for the help guys,

Dustin
 
I won't use an imported balancer from anybody again. It's cost me close to $1500 on a customer's engine.
 
mjs69gts said:
milodon gear drive is what ive put into both my 340 and my 416 stroker keeps timing on the mark plus i love the whine
Click to expand...


This is my favorite for gear driven cam sounds.. VFR750 Honda
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K68881TWCT4&feature=related"]YouTube - VFR 750 RC 36 MIG[/ame]


They sound something like a cross between a Nascar stocker and a Viper on the road.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU4B5QUnVHM&feature=related"]YouTube - Honda VFR RC36 Sound III[/ame]
 
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