Tincup's 63 Dart w/5.7 Hemi

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Tincup said:
Ryan, It's no problem at all. I am by no means an expert, all I can really comment on is what I have done. The best way to measure for the axle is to place the wheels and tires up under the car where they are going to be then measure. My rear measured 48" flange to flange, overall 53.5" with a pinion offset of 0.75". The spring perches are 36" however I would only get them tacked in position because you have to set the pinion angle (typically 3 degrees).
Are you minitubbing or full tubbing? if mini I would recommend your axle be at least 1.6" wider than mine, ( my backspace is 6") my tires are slightly closer to the frame than to the outer wheelhouse. (I'm considering a 1/4" spacer just to center the tire in the wheelwell a little better). I think it is better to error on the short side rather than long. It is easy to add a little, but a ***** to take away. If I were you I would go with a 55.5" overall dimension, but please double check all your measurements.
Hope this helps.
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My measurement was done with the wheels under the car and centered as best as I possibly could.. I have noticed with these wells that it would be better to have them further in then out because of how much the outer wheelhouse leans in and the inner goes practically straight up. The car is mini-tubbed, not full tubbed. Having them further in means they can always be spaced out as well, although I would really prefer to just do it right and not have to space the wheels. I'll be going with Bill's rear suspension setup so pinion angle will be adjusted through the upper links, not the pads. Your spring perch measurement matches mine which is good! Can you list your wheel and tire specs for me(offset & backspacing)?

Here are some pictures of how the wheels are centered when I took the 54.75" measurement. As well as just a couple other pictures of the car.. the stance isn't right in the front or rear, so ignore that for now.

http://img19.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dsc01365la.jpg
 
MoparPowa said:
My measurement was done with the wheels under the car and centered as best as I possibly could.. I have noticed with these wells that it would be better to have them further in then out because of how much the outer wheelhouse leans in and the inner goes practically straight up. The car is mini-tubbed, not full tubbed. Having them further in means they can always be spaced out as well, although I would really prefer to just do it right and not have to space the wheels. I'll be going with Bill's rear suspension setup so pinion angle will be adjusted through the upper links, not the pads. Your spring perch measurement matches mine which is good! Can you list your wheel and tire specs for me(offset & backspacing)?

Here are some pictures of how the wheels are centered when I took the 54.75" measurement. As well as just a couple other pictures of the car.. the stance isn't right in the front or rear, so ignore that for now.

http://img19.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dsc01365la.jpg
Click to expand...

Nice looking car, It's nice to see someone else doing an early A Pro Tour. One trick I did was to duct tape 2 pieces of 1" thick wood to the outer chassis rail to rest the tires against, so I knew I would have 1" of spacing on the inside. My rear wheels are 18 x 10 with 6" BS, the offset is included in the backspacing ( my wheels are 10" wide with 6" BS = 1" positive offset, because if you moved the mounting surface back 1", my wheels would be 5" + 5" = 0 offset) check out this link; http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101.
If your wheels are 10.5" with 6.8" BS that would give you 1.55" pos offset. So if we add 1.55" to my dimension of 53.5" gives us 55". And like I said earlier, my rear probably should have been a 1/2" wider, ( I have plenty of clearence to the frame, the spacers would only be for apperance) so add that to our number and we get 55.5". Add 1/4" to your number to be safe, 55" wide.
You do what you think is best, but if it is too tight to the chassis they will rub whenever the body leans. So TRIPLE check those numbers... Good Luck.
 
By the way, your tires are 315-35-17 which equals 12.4" wide x 25.7" tall, my tires are 285-40-18 which is 11.2" wide x 27" tall. You have a very wide tire there, and on a 10.5" rim there will be some balooning of the sidewall. Take your time and measure carefully, those wheel tubs are going to be full!

100_1735.jpg
 
Tincup said:
Nice looking car.
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Thanks! I'm workin on it one day at a time. And I agree, you don't see very many if any early a bodies built pro-touring style.

Tincup said:
Nice looking car, It's nice to see someone else doing an early A Pro Tour. One trick I did was to duct tape 2 pieces of 1" thick wood to the outer chassis rail to rest the tires against, so I knew I would have 1" of spacing on the inside. My rear wheels are 18 x 10 with 6" BS, the offset is included in the backspacing ( my wheels are 10" wide with 6" BS = 1" positive offset, because if you moved the mounting surface back 1", my wheels would be 5" + 5" = 0 offset) check out this link; http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=101.
If your wheels are 10.5" with 6.8" BS that would give you 1.55" pos offset. So if we add 1.55" to my dimension of 53.5" gives us 55". And like I said earlier, my rear probably should have been a 1/2" wider, ( I have plenty of clearence to the frame, the spacers would only be for apperance) so add that to our number and we get 55.5". Add 1/4" to your number to be safe, 55" wide.
You do what you think is best, but if it is too tight to the chassis they will rub whenever the body leans. So TRIPLE check those numbers... Good Luck.
Click to expand...


Excuse my offset and backspacing confusion.. apparently I forgot how to think. I'm a little confused though, some numbers just aren't adding up here. The site I bought these wheels from lists the offset as 1.10, but the backspacing measurement doesn't add up then. As you already stated, the offset should equal 1.55" unless I'm missing something. Anyone care to point out what I'm missing? Here's what the link to the page of the rear wheels.. it has the chart with backspacing and everything down a little bit. http://www.americanmuscle.com/dedibuwh.html
Maybe they listed the offset wrong? Either way, my measurement would still be true at 54.75". Basically, you are just suggesting a 1/2" extra for another 1/4" of space on the inside at minimum and you are suggesting another 1/2" for a better look to push the tires out some more?

Sorry this is taking me a little while to get! I tend to over-analyze things..
Ryan
 
Tincup said:
By the way, your tires are 315-35-17 which equals 12.4" wide x 25.7" tall, my tires are 285-40-18 which is 11.2" wide x 27" tall. You have a very wide tire there, and on a 10.5" rim there will be some balooning of the sidewall. Take your time and measure carefully, those wheel tubs are going to be full!
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Nitto's are known to run narrow and they are, although to be fair there isn't any weight on them at all without an axle or anything. Surprisingly for being a 10.5" rim the sidewall fits perfectly.. And yes, the tubs are full, but I have at minimum a 1/2" on the inside of the rails right now and I can slide 2 fingers fairly easily through the outer wheel house. I could've, with bigger wheels, fit 335's.. 13.5" section width tires in a 3200lb vehicle with 600hp, corvette's watchout! :snakeman:
 
Well I'm stiffening up the front end, painting the hood hinges, and working on the better halfs Tahoe...ac took a giant dump which equals $$$$$$$$$$.
 
MoparPowa said:
Yeah, the Nitto's are known to run narrow and they are, although to be fair there isn't any weight on them at all without an axle or anything. Surprisingly for being a 10.5" rim the sidewall fits perfectly.. And yes, the tubs are full, but I have at minimum a 1/2" on the inside of the rails right now and I can slide 2 fingers fairly easily through the outer wheel house. I could've, with bigger wheels, fit 335's.. 13.5" section width tires in a 3200lb vehicle with 600hp, corvette's watchout! :snakeman:
Click to expand...

Typically the rear end manufacturers recommend at least 1" of clearance to the inside for a street car. There is another way to double check this, we know the dimension of the frame rails (outside to outside) add 2" to that number for clearance (1" per side) then Take a straight edge across the back of the tire and measure your total backspacing (wheel & tire). Add that (X2) to the previous measurement and see what you get. If you get 54.75" then that's it.
Theoretically 38" wide rails + 2" clearance = 40" + (2) 7.375"BS = 54.75" Give or take...
 
Tincup said:
Typically the rear end manufacturers recommend at least 1" of clearance to the inside for a street car. There is another way to double check this, we know the dimension of the frame rails (outside to outside) add 2" to that number for clearance (1" per side) then Take a straight edge across the back of the tire and measure your total backspacing (wheel & tire). Add that (X2) to the previous measurement and see what you get. If you get 54.75" then that's it.
Theoretically 38" wide rails + 2" clearance = 40" + (2) 7.375"BS = 54.75" Give or take...
Click to expand...

Our rails are 38.5" wide on the outside, and 33.5" inches wide on the inside(measured at the front spring hangers), making the rails each 2.5" inches wide, which leads to the measurement for pads being 36"(center to center), by your math, with my measurement on the rails, the rear end needs to be 50.25" or 50" at the axles, pending an 1/8" thick rotors mounting on the axle. We should start a business doing this Tin, we really got it down eh? :read2: It was funny today when I called up Bill and ordered the suspension and he brought up brake width, made me go #-o but it turned out to be no problem at all.

-Ryan
 
Hey, I thought this was about cars and not trying to figure out the orbital trajectory of the Lunar cycle when all the planets are in line???...lol
 
MoparPowa said:
Our rails are 38.5" wide on the outside, and 33.5" inches wide on the inside(measured at the front spring hangers), making the rails each 2.5" inches wide, which leads to the measurement for pads being 36"(center to center), by your math, with my measurement on the rails, the rear end needs to be 50.25" or 50" at the axles, pending an 1/8" thick rotors mounting on the axle. We should start a business doing this Tin, we really got it down eh? :read2: It was funny today when I called up Bill and ordered the suspension and he brought up brake width, made me go #-o but it turned out to be no problem at all.

-Ryan
Click to expand...
Where did you come up with 50.25" ??? I hope that was just a typo...
 
5.7 hemi said:
Hey, I thought this was about cars and not trying to figure out the orbital trajectory of the Lunar cycle when all the planets are in line???...lol
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Hey 5.7, if all this math stuff is hurting your brain, I think there is a forum on cake baking you might enjoy........LOL
 
Here,s what I,ve done.I,ve taken the A-body housing width 52 5/8(flange to flange) and shortened 3 inches per side for 46 5/8(flange to flange).Ordered axels from strange 25 inches with the green bearings,also running 10x2 1/2 inch brakes.Overall width with brakes is 51 5/8.I,ll be using 15x10 rims with 4 1/2 inch backspace under my minitubbed 66 Dart.Hope this helps.:read2:
 
Tin, that aint right!!!!lol!!!!!
 
We actually had a beautiful weekend here in New England. I spent 3 full days working on the Dart, with 2 of them devoted to the dash. It was a lot of cutting and welding, but it will be sharp when it's done.

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I decided to roll the car outside for a photo op. Put the motor in for good (Hopefully!) last night.

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Great Thread I subbed. and am reading my way through every post. Thank your for sharing I'm gonna need this.
 
Tin, now I'm jealous. Just alittle longer and she'll be done. Looking great, and could you show us the trans mounting? I'm curious as to how ya done it, or if you got pics in the thread I'll look for them.
 
ohhhh yeahhhH!

Anyone want to guess how long he sat behind the wheel saying vroooom, vrooooom, vroooom... heeere Chevy chevy chevy...
 
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