Tire Kingdom SUCKS!!!

[MoparDaddy]

I think he was referencing to where I said FWD has nothing to do with it. But thank you for sticking up and saying that. It seems like some people didn't thoroughly read and understand what I said.

Ah ok. My mistake. I do agree with the popular opinion. Unless there is snow on the ground, or my front end needs aligned. I have the best tires on the front.

 

[/6 Matt]

Ah ok. My mistake

Well I'm not sure if he was referring to the FWD or if he didn't read thoroughly.

 

[Revhendo]

Understand at this point, I'm switching to intelectual disscussion mode. I'm not argueing with anybody.

My response to that is, why then, do RWD vehicles tires wear quicker in the front as well?

Seriously? It is Newtonian physics. Plain and simple. The percentage of weight is to the front. The force of braking is dramatically to the front. The daily force of steering is to the front. Within the normal parameters of daily driving the only time the rear tires are doing more work is during acceleration.

To the gent that posted about not rotating tires because you could only afford one pair of tires at a time. I offer that properly inflated and rotated on a schedule, as long as your alignment is in spec, your four tires will last longer than any two pairs of tires.

 

[/6 Matt]

Seriously? It is Newtonian physics. Plain and simple. The percentage of weight is to the front. The force of braking is dramatically to the front. The daily force of steering is to the front. Within the normal parameters of daily driving the only time the rear tires are doing more work is during acceleration.

To the gent that posted about not rotating tires because you could only afford one pair of tires at a time. I offer that properly inflated and rotated on a schedule, as long as your alignment is in spec, your four tires will last longer than any two pairs of tires.

So then you agree that regardless of FWD or RWD the front tires will wear faster which will prove the point I am trying to make in that instance from which you stold my quote without taking the context in which I put it into consideration?

And you are probably right on that, but that's just the way I do things. Buy tires in pairs, replace in pairs and get an alignment done each time.

 

[Revhendo]

So then you agree that regardless of FWD or RWD the front tires will wear faster which will prove the point I am trying to make in that instance from which you stold my quote without taking the context in which I put it into consideration?

And you are probably right on that, but that's just the way I do things. Buy tires in pairs, replace in pairs and get an alignment done each time.

Doesn't matter if I agree or disagree, it's just a fact. Physics in action.
I'm not sure I can answer to the 'stold" part. My typese is sucking today.
Are you saying I stole your quote out of context? I didn't think I had, I was merely answering the RWD question you posed.

I will say that new tires should go to the rear. I know the whole I want the best on the front discussion, but there is a reason your average transportation vehicle is designed with understeer. It is way more forgiving than oversteer in daily driving. Tuning other characteristics into your car is fine for the track but nobody is driving at full attention 100% of the time.

 

[/6 Matt]

Doesn't matter if I agree or disagree, it's just a fact. Physics in action.
I'm not sure I can answer to the 'stold" part. My typese is sucking today.
Are you saying I stole your quote out of context? I didn't think I had, I was merely answering the RWD question you posed.

I will say that new tires should go to the rear. I know the whole I want the best on the front discussion, but there is a reason your average transportation vehicle is designed with understeer. It is way more forgiving than oversteer in daily driving. Tuning other characteristics into your car is fine for the track but nobody is driving at full attention 100% of the time.

I suppose I didn't make myslef clear. My question which you answered was meant to be a rehtorical question (I feel likey spelling sucks today) and the context from which my question was taken from should have been indicative to that fact.

That is an excellent point that nobody is at full attention 100% of the time and therefore understeer would be more favorable.

 

[/6 Matt]

I suppose I didn't make myslef clear. My question which you answered was meant to be a rehtorical question (I feel likey spelling sucks today) and the context from which my question was taken from should have been indicative to that fact.

Still yet, I don't mind you answering. Maybe somebody lurking around here was actually wondering why the front tires wear faster and now they know.

 

[Revhendo]

Still yet, I don't mind you answering. Maybe somebody lurking around here was actually wondering why the front tires wear faster and now they know.

Just that fact that you can take a bummer experience with a bunch of pinheads and turn it into something that can make folks think and even learn from says volumes about you.

Kudos.:thumbup:

 

[MrCuda68]

I can tell most of the techs that work there are moroons.

Please don't call them tech's. :wack:

 

[Slappy]

Look I shouldn't have got involved in this. I apologize if I offended anyone. I believe that further intrusion from me would not be productive. Im out.

 

[jd340]

Look I shouldn't have got involved in this. I apologize if I offended anyone. I believe that further intrusion from me would not be productive. Im out.

I just got the feeling you got offended by being lumped into the bad apples of your profession. You obviously are passionate about your work and take it seriously. That's something not everyone can say. Let's face it, dealerships, auto shops, bodymen, all tend to get lumped into the "crooked, good for nothing" stereotype, but most of us can probably think of one GOOD example of each of them that we've dealt with at some time. Never apologize for sticking up for yourself! Maybe the title of this thread should have been My LOCAL Tire Kingdom SUCKS! I have to agree with Revhendo, this thread is becoming pretty informative. Please stay on and add to it.

 

[MoparDaddy]

i just got the feeling you got offended by being lumped into the bad apples of your profession. You obviously are passionate about your work and take it seriously. That's something not everyone can say. Let's face it, dealerships, auto shops, bodymen, all tend to get lumped into the "crooked, good for nothing" stereotype, but most of us can probably think of one good example of each of them that we've dealt with at some time. Never apologize for sticking up for yourself! Maybe the title of this thread should have been my local tire kingdom sucks! I have to agree with revhendo, this thread is becoming pretty informative. Please stay on and add to it.

x2

 

[ramenth]

I agree it is a teaching moment when they ask questions but when they watch you like a hawk, I can understand where I would get just as pissy as slappy.

And it was a teaching moment for you, too, but instead you decided to "school" someone else.

You were ranting that you stood and waited for quite a while as you got piss poor service and watched everyone standing around doing this and that and the other thing without even touching your tires. It was only at the end you decided to demand a manager and opened up on someone.

In all that time you stood and continued to get angrier and angrier until you blew up. To what end?

At any time you could have called someone over to get the manager so you could ask the reasonable question as to why a half dozen guys are standing around while there's paying business on the floor. It would have drawn the manager's attention to the behavior as it was happening, not after the fact.

One of the things you might want to remember on the person's piss poor explanation on why the good tires belong on the rear: a lot of box stores don't send out for training. They want it done before they hire. It saves them the cost, while still being able to say they have blah-blah-blah certified technicians. At the same time, some of them want the training and expect the line guy to pay for it.

Been there, done that.

I've worked for one box store in my career that actually took the time to send us out for training and certs. (Those were industry training, by the way. TIA to be specific. Anything else we paid for and they reimbursed us.) The other one expected us to pay for it and gave us our birthday off with pay for having the certs. Big deal.

Other than that, for a lot of guys, it's reading trade magazines or listening to the boss. There's not a lot of incentive to get any training or certs unless the individual has the determination to do so.

I will say this: I will never work corporate again. Most of the guys on the counter are failed wrenches at best, salesmen at the worst. The former has enough knowledge to be dangerous, the latter has no knowledge at all. Both are worthless. Now, given that, how good of an explanation is expected by someone when the boss is who I've described? It also explains why the manager was allowing this behavior while he had customers.

Did you think of any of this while you were exploding on the guy? Or are you under the assumption that since you went to a generic box store everyone was a highly trained professional? Have you worked at these stores to know what goes on behind the scenes, so to speak, to be able to place yourself in his shoes?

It's up to the person to understand what he's explaining to make sure he gets the proper training, but when the person he trusts is full of ****, then he's going to be full of ****, too.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking honest questions. Sometimes while you're attempting to "school" someone you haven't asked the proper questions of yourself to understand the other side. I can tell you right now, he gave this explanation because he honestly believed it as that's what he had been lead to believe.

A dumbass? Maybe. Are you dumbass for dressing him down for letting your temper get the best of you when you had the opportunity to do something about it earlier? I don't know. That's up to you to figure out.

Now on to your challenge, you do realize a RWD car with better tire on the front than rear can have the exact thing happen that you described? My challenge for you: Drive a RWD car in the rain with worn tires on the *** end and brand news on the front.

Have you read my signature? I left Sarah's Hyundai off the list because it was Sarah's. I guess I should add it now, seeing it's since become mine. I don't see a FWD on the list, do you?

The F250? I started driving that when I was 14. I'm 41 now. Do the math for how long I've been driving.

Now, ask yourself why should I take you up on your challenge?

I was addressing FWD because people seem to think that since the entire driveline is in the front, then they think that the tires with the best tread belong on the front for traction. Those people would be wrong.

Maybe I should have addressed my previous response in a different way and not "challenged" you so to speak.

Look I shouldn't have got involved in this. I apologize if I offended anyone. I believe that further intrusion from me would not be productive. Im out.

No big deal to me, Slappy and no need to apologize from what I see. I've worked with plenty of guys with the same outlook as you and I understand it.

I was simply pointing out a different perspective.

 

[MoparDaddy]

And it was a teaching moment for you, too, but instead you decided to "school" someone else.

You were ranting that you stood and waited for quite a while as you got piss poor service and watched everyone standing around doing this and that and the other thing without even touching your tires. It was only at the end you decided to demand a manager and opened up on someone.

In all that time you stood and continued to get angrier and angrier until you blew up. To what end?

At any time you could have called someone over to get the manager so you could ask the reasonable question as to why a half dozen guys are standing around while there's paying business on the floor. It would have drawn the manager's attention to the behavior as it was happening, not after the fact.

One of the things you might want to remember on the person's piss poor explanation on why the good tires belong on the rear: a lot of box stores don't send out for training. They want it done before they hire. It saves them the cost, while still being able to say they have blah-blah-blah certified technicians. At the same time, some of them want the training and expect the line guy to pay for it.

Been there, done that.

I've worked for one box store in my career that actually took the time to send us out for training and certs. (Those were industry training, by the way. TIA to be specific. Anything else we paid for and they reimbursed us.) The other one expected us to pay for it and gave us our birthday off with pay for having the certs. Big deal.

Other than that, for a lot of guys, it's reading trade magazines or listening to the boss. There's not a lot of incentive to get any training or certs unless the individual has the determination to do so.

I will say this: I will never work corporate again. Most of the guys on the counter are failed wrenches at best, salesmen at the worst. The former has enough knowledge to be dangerous, the latter has no knowledge at all. Both are worthless. Now, given that, how good of an explanation is expected by someone when the boss is who I've described? It also explains why the manager was allowing this behavior while he had customers.

Did you think of any of this while you were exploding on the guy? Or are you under the assumption that since you went to a generic box store everyone was a highly trained professional? Have you worked at these stores to know what goes on behind the scenes, so to speak, to be able to place yourself in his shoes?

It's up to the person to understand what he's explaining to make sure he gets the proper training, but when the person he trusts is full of ****, then he's going to be full of ****, too.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm asking honest questions. Sometimes while you're attempting to "school" someone you haven't asked the proper questions of yourself to understand the other side. I can tell you right now, he gave this explanation because he honestly believed it as that's what he had been lead to believe.

A dumbass? Maybe. Are you dumbass for dressing him down for letting your temper get the best of you when you had the opportunity to do something about it earlier? I don't know. That's up to you to figure out.

Have you read my signature? I left Sarah's Hyundai off the list because it was Sarah's. I guess I should add it now, seeing it's since become mine. I don't see a FWD on the list, do you?

The F250? I started driving that when I was 14. I'm 41 now. Do the math for how long I've been driving.

Now, ask yourself why should I take you up on your challenge?

I was addressing FWD because people seem to think that since the entire driveline is in the front, then they think that the tires with the best tread belong on the front for traction. Those people would be wrong.

Maybe I should have addressed my previous response in a different way and not "challenged" you so to speak.

No big deal to me, Slappy and no need to apologize from what I see. I've worked with plenty of guys with the same outlook as you and I understand it.

I was simply pointing out a different perspective.

You make several great points.
On the flip side of the coin though,
Most "corp" company's have their employees do computer based training when hired too though. I've had to do it with a few of the places I've worked. Walmart :banghead:, autozone, pep boys, and Rimco. These are done on company time while the employee is on the clock. Said computer training is also required to comply with any and all industry standards. Do all employees pay attn to said training? Unfortunately not. I've seen that first hand which is probably the case with mr tire kingdom counter guy. That is also the reason he believed what he was lead to believe. Unfortunately there are several explanations as to why he lacked the proper knowledge to perform his duties accurately. Poor customer service however, has 0 good reasons.

 

[/6 Matt]

Just that fact that you can take a bummer experience with a bunch of pinheads and turn it into something that can make folks think and even learn from says volumes about you.

Kudos.:thumbup:

well truth is I said I'm in intellectual disscussion mode for a reason (note: intellectual disscussion and debates are closely related in my book) and really I hope somebody reading is learning things or maybe thinking through a different perspective due to the comments everyone has left here (I have a slightly different perspective after what rammeth said) because thats what this site is for. I did act like a jackass (that one's for rammeth) in the shop, I might have here too cause I come of so strongly in these kinds of threads. Just who I am.

That being said, I've been putting thought into what you said as far as the whole "one set of tires rotated will last longer than two pairs" blah blah I'm paraphrasing and can't remember your exact words I'm on a cell phone and it's a PITA to type on, but you know what you said. Anyways, I'm thinking more and more about that one. It doesn't make much sense. Would you do me the favor of argueing that view to help me understand and learn something myself?

Look I shouldn't have got involved in this. I apologize if I offended anyone. I believe that further intrusion from me would not be productive. Im out.

Dude, no need to leave. I know you didn't offend me and I don't believe you did anyone else. You were just making a point and sticking up for yourself cause like somone else said , you got lumped in with some of the idiots in the industry. Like I said earlier I do come of strongly at times and that may be why I now feel like I've stepped on your toes. If you noticed though, several times I did say I agree with you while still argueing my point. Your insight didn't go in one ear and out the other, despite me being a teenager lol! I guess what I'm saying is, you have added to the disscussion and it would be a shame to see you go.

I'm going to pm you tommorrow to try and get you back here to at least read what I and the two others have said in regards to you leaving. I like my air clear and not polluted with hard feelings.

To rammeth:I'm gonna have to wait till I'm on the computer to reply to you cause I don't feel like going through the crap to reply to your mile long post with a 5 mile long post on this damn phone lol.

 

[/6 Matt]

Ok so in my last post ramenth, I totally spelled your name wrong 3 times. Sorry about that one man.

 

[ramenth]

To rammeth:I'm gonna have to wait till I'm on the computer to reply to you cause I don't feel like going through the crap to reply to your mile long post with a 5 mile long post on this damn phone lol.

Phones can be fun. Not really. Small keyboards and a lot to say don't go hand in hand.

Ok so in my last post ramenth, I totally spelled your name wrong 3 times. Sorry about that one man.

No biggie. You can just call me Robert. Everyone else does.

 

[ramenth]

You make several great points.
On the flip side of the coin though,
Most "corp" company's have their employees do computer based training when hired too though. I've had to do it with a few of the places I've worked. Walmart :banghead:, autozone, pep boys, and Rimco. These are done on company time while the employee is on the clock. Said computer training is also required to comply with any and all industry standards. Do all employees pay attn to said training? Unfortunately not. I've seen that first hand which is probably the case with mr tire kingdom counter guy. That is also the reason he believed what he was lead to believe.

Been a while since I've been in box store. Seems to me they've caught up with technology. I worked for one in '05 and the last one I worked for was when they bought out a longstanding tire/suspension shop in town where I worked. They and I parted ways soon after the buy-out.

The last computer based training I took was at Ford in preparation to head out to school. The way it should be... getting the basics down before you head out for actual hands on training and testing.

Unfortunately, though, it's the way a lot of box stores work and one of the reasons I won't go for my ASE's: I read it done in a book once. (I mean no slight to ASE tech's, I just, in principal, disagree with any certifying body who administers a multiple choice exam without any hands on proof at of the practical application of the knowledge. If they threw you in a shop and made you prove that knowledge before they handed you the certificate I'd be more willing to take them seriously. The two years in a shop thing, to me, doesn't necessarily make you qualify since you can use any shop experience. Take Mr. Tire Guy. He could go after brakes, suspension, etc, claim two years in a shop, but only have busted and balanced tires for the two years. He could pass the test simply by osmosis, having watched the more experienced guys in the shop do their thing, yet never once in those two years actually turned a wrench doing brakes and suspensions. But he'd be trusted because he's ASE certified.)

That being said, computer training doesn't do a thing to prove that you actually retained the knowledge long enough to put said knowledge to hands on use.

But it looks good for the customers.

(Somehow or other I just deleted the other part of your response. But here goes.)

I will agree that there's absolutely no excuse for poor customer service. I was pointing out the poor customer service, sometimes, can be headed off at the pass simply by drawing attention to it before it builds steam.

Personally, I'm a lot like Matt. I hate waiting. I have a lot of patience most of the time, but I hate waiting, as that's time I could be doing something else, more productive.

One of the reasons, really, I would have been calling the manager over and asking for an explanation as to why my tires hadn't been touched when there are several guys just hanging out.

Sometimes, though, these guys are getting paid exactly what they're worth and it's a never ending circle. They feel they should be getting paid more and when they aren't they protest by being lazy. But when they get lazy they are getting exactly what they're worth.

One of the reasons a lot of box stores have a spiff incentive. Willing to pick 'e up and put 'em down and push more cars through in a day and you'll make better money. On the slow days, though, when there's no business and you're hourly rate sucks so bad that you aren't paid to actually give a ****. Which perpetuates poor customer service.

 

[MoparDaddy]

Been a while since I've been in box store. Seems to me they've caught up with technology. I worked for one in '05 and the last one I worked for was when they bought out a longstanding tire/suspension shop in town where I worked. They and I parted ways soon after the buy-out.

The last computer based training I took was at Ford in preparation to head out to school. The way it should be... getting the basics down before you head out for actual hands on training and testing.

Unfortunately, though, it's the way a lot of box stores work and one of the reasons I won't go for my ASE's: I read it done in a book once. (I mean no slight to ASE tech's, I just, in principal, disagree with any certifying body who administers a multiple choice exam without any hands on proof at of the practical application of the knowledge. If they threw you in a shop and made you prove that knowledge before they handed you the certificate I'd be more willing to take them seriously. The two years in a shop thing, to me, doesn't necessarily make you qualify since you can use any shop experience. Take Mr. Tire Guy. He could go after brakes, suspension, etc, claim two years in a shop, but only have busted and balanced tires for the two years. He could pass the test simply by osmosis, having watched the more experienced guys in the shop do their thing, yet never once in those two years actually turned a wrench doing brakes and suspensions. But he'd be trusted because he's ASE certified.)

That being said, computer training doesn't do a thing to prove that you actually retained the knowledge long enough to put said knowledge to hands on use.

But it looks good for the customers.

(Somehow or other I just deleted the other part of your response. But here goes.)

I will agree that there's absolutely no excuse for poor customer service. I was pointing out the poor customer service, sometimes, can be headed off at the pass simply by drawing attention to it before it builds steam.

Personally, I'm a lot like Matt. I hate waiting. I have a lot of patience most of the time, but I hate waiting, as that's time I could be doing something else, more productive.

One of the reasons, really, I would have been calling the manager over and asking for an explanation as to why my tires hadn't been touched when there are several guys just hanging out.

Sometimes, though, these guys are getting paid exactly what they're worth and it's a never ending circle. They feel they should be getting paid more and when they aren't they protest by being lazy. But when they get lazy they are getting exactly what they're worth.

One of the reasons a lot of box stores have a spiff incentive. Willing to pick 'e up and put 'em down and push more cars through in a day and you'll make better money. On the slow days, though, when there's no business and you're hourly rate sucks so bad that you aren't paid to actually give a ****. Which perpetuates poor customer service.

I agree entirely. The guys at Walmart are given hands on training by a "pro" and then paid minimum wage to bust tires and do oil changes..
I worked at the TLE in wagoner, ok and we actually had a good crew. That was about 5yrs ago. Give or take a year. Lol