cb474
Active Member
Thanks.
Here's an image of one of the wheels. I seem to have got that working now. I don't know how easy it is to see the condition of the lug seats though.
Tire shop over torqued lug nuts (1969 Dart). Should I redo it?
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Thanks.
Here's an image of one of the wheels. I seem to have got that working now. I don't know how easy it is to see the condition of the lug seats though.
cb474
Active Member
Some of the lug nuts. They are pretty beaten up. I wouldn't be suprised if most of them are original.
The lug nuts are terrible, but the wheels can be easily fixed with that bit.Thanks.
Here's an image of one of the wheels. I seem to have got that working now. I don't know how easy it is to see the condition of the lug seats though.
View attachment 1716485490
cb474
Active Member
Yeah, my mother is the original owner of this car. It's unmodified. It "only" has 158K on the original engine (225 Slant 6). I really would not be suprised if the lug nuts are from 1969.
Very likely. But they could still be in good shape were they not abused. No fault of yours.
cb474
Active Member
Yeah, I can only imagine what was done to them over the years. I only started working on the car myself recently.
Am I right that 7/16-20 is the correct thread size for the lug nuts?
Correct.
is it just me or do the nuts and wheel seats look galled
Yeah that was the whole point of me linking that bit. So he can fix the wheels.
Seen that a bazillion times in the shop, it happens over time, even if they're not grossly over-torqued. It was common to have them on cars & trucks to come off dragging like a torque-prevailing nut, the wear & repeated torquing causes the nuts to become swedged, to the point they gall & pull threads coming off. Sometimes I'd grind the ends of the taper off, light lube the studs & run straight lugnuts on backwards, many of them worked OK after that. Otherwise, it turned into chasing/fixing threads &/or replacing stuff.
The taper dressing of the rim seat Rusty was talking about is very helpful here, old 60° seats in alum. rims need love too, they gall & get rough over time for sure.
People rarely think of it but it helps to lubricate the lug nut seats in the wheels too. It will not affect how they lock down when torqued.
Affirmative, nothing too slippery, but it can save them from the kind of galling/damage pic'd above. Al-U-minimum seats with the wide taper lugnuts can cause torque sticks/clickers to stop before the studs are properly loaded, and yes they can & will loosen if that happens.
But then, that's why all lug nuts are "supposed" to be rechecked periodically. Hardly anyone does it, though.
cb474
Active Member
Interesting. I've now learned what it means for something to be galled. That explains the appearance of the lug nuts and wheels a lot. I guess I should check the lug studs too, but my recollection is that they looked okay.
So lubricating the lug nut seats won't affect the torque setting (have the lug nuts end up being overtorque)? I've seen people say if you lube the lug studs themselves you will end up effectibely overtorquing. If that's not an issue, is there a specific lube people would recommend?
Any kind of light penetrating spray lube, I've been using Sta-bil Fogging oil here around the homestead for that sort of thing, just not super-slippery stuff like Wurth HHS-K or the like (Zep 2000(?) ), they set up & are capable of causing the overtorque You're concerned about.
slantsixdan
=..=
'62 Lancer at the Wisconsin dock for the SS Badger (ferry across the lake): "Uhhh…pushbuttons…for the…transmission? We'll let you move it."
Same '62 Lancer some hours later in Michigan: I hear it start up while I'm in line to get off the boat, and by the time I'm off, it's parked over yonder.
cb474
Active Member
I was just about to order this drill bit. But now I'm wondering if 5/8 in diameter would be the right size. Since hex part of the lug nuts are 3/4 inch wide, doesn't that mean that the wheel hole is 3/4 inch in diameter at the widest point (toward the outside of the wheel). It seems like 5/8 in wouldn't cover the entire area where the lug nut seats against the wheel.
It looks like Drill America makes the same bit in a 3/4 inch diameter (as well as many other sizes wider and narrower): 3/4-60 DEG. SINGLE FLUTE COUNTERSINK - Drill America
Doesn't it make more sense to use a 3/4 inch 60 degree drill bit?
The hole through the wheel is 1/2". So a 5/8" bit is plenty big. If you think you need a 3/4" bit, go for it. Just know that you will need a drill with a chuck that has a 1/2" capacity. The 5/8" bit only requires a 3/8" chuck, which any hand drill will handle.
cb474
Active Member
Thanks for pointing out the difference in the shank diameter.
I'm still confused when I think about this. If the hole in the wheel is 1/2", then wouldn't a 5/8" bit only cover 1/16" of the bevel that the lug nut seats against? It seems like the bevel is wider than 1/16". (I'm not in the same place as the car right now, so I can't just go out and measure it.)
maybe this will help
all 3 tapered nuts are the same size
all tapers are the same angle
the holes are 0.60 (15/25") .050 (1/2") 0.4375 (7/16")
if you re-taper the hole too wide the nut MUGHT contact the flange before the nut is tight to the wheel
cb474
Active Member
Thanks for the impressive graphic.
Yes, I thought about that. But it's not a question here of tapering the hole wider. It's just a question of cleaning up the surface of the seat. If I do that very lightly, as RustyRatRod suggested, it doesn't matter if I use a 5/8" diameter bit, 3/4" or 1" or larger. They would all produce the same result, except that it seems to me that the 5/8" bit won't clean up the outer most part of the tapered surface in the wheel, because it won't come into contact with it.
Also, even with the 5/8" bit I could taper it wider by accident. It would just only widen the inner part of the hole.
In any case, if you look at the photos above of my lug nuts, it looks like they are worn all the way to the flat surface of the hex. That suggests that there is no part of the taper on the lug nut that is not in contact with the wheel. So really none of the examples in the diagram represent what is going on.
Perhaps from all the overtightening of the lugs nuts, over the decades, the holes already are worn too wide? How much of the lug nut taper is supposed to come into contact with the tapered surface on the wheel hole?
Anyway, I guess when I'm back where the car is I need to look at what's actually going on. Fortunately there is a spare in the trunk that I don't think has ever been used. So I can measure what the holes were like when the wheels were new.
I measured a wheel I have and the holes were, way over 1/2"
cb474
Active Member
Interesting. Thanks for checking. I guess I'll report back, once I have a chance to measure the wheels on my car. It will be interesting to see how the spare compares to the wheels on the car.
I have not check before but I have about 15-20 total OEM Steel Wheels.
I could measure a few more.
I could measure a few more.
Well, you could die of old age before you make up your mind so there's that.
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