torsion bar issue?

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yeah

yeah

The gang’s all here
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hi i have a major issue with my torsion bars wondering if there is someone on here that is a mopar suspension master. Well when i purchased my car i started doing a suspension overhaul. i put tubular lower and upper control arms in , drop spindles bigger torsion bars etc.. . Basically my problem comes down to the passenger side rear torsion bar mount was clocked differently than the drivers side due to somebody's botched repair job. I had installed all the aforementioned parts before fixing the passenger side torsion bar mount, the car sat with the new suspension and the offset mount for a year or so. My problem now is that after fixing the passenger mount there seams to be no tension on the torsion bar , I guess my question is do the torsion bars set a certain way? my fear is that when i had initially installed the torsion bars with the broken mount I had so much tension on the spring that it set that way, and now that the mount is fixed i cannot get tension on the bar because it is set that way. any help would be appreciated.

:banghead:
 
Seems unlikely you could have done anything to the bar, just sitting there for a year. Most of them are still holding tension 40 years on. I'd start looking at ALL the components. Where one thing was screwed up, others might be.
 
Hey thanks for the response . I'm just super confused by this , everything is new on the front suspension . The rear torsion bar crossmember was messed with , Before i bought the car . When I first installed everything my car was sitting lob sided , I could not even screw in the tensioner bolt in in the passenger side , it would lift the passenger side so high after just a couple turns my dart looked like my jeep haha . So basically after looking at the back of those socket looking things that hold the torsion bars in the crossmember I noticed that the passenger side was different that the driver. It was a couple degrees off . So I proceeded to cut it out and weld that socket in that same way as the driver side . Now the problem is that I need to screw that tensioner bolt all they way and it's still barely has any tension on it . ?????? I'm lost
 
yeah said:
hi i have a major issue with my torsion bars wondering if there is someone on here that is a mopar suspension master. Well when i purchased my car i started doing a suspension overhaul. i put tubular lower and upper control arms in , drop spindles bigger torsion bars etc.. . Basically my problem comes down to the passenger side rear torsion bar mount was clocked differently than the drivers side due to somebody's botched repair job. I had installed all the aforementioned parts before fixing the passenger side torsion bar mount, the car sat with the new suspension and the offset mount for a year or so. My problem now is that after fixing the passenger mount there seams to be no tension on the torsion bar , I guess my question is do the torsion bars set a certain way? my fear is that when i had initially installed the torsion bars with the broken mount I had so much tension on the spring that it set that way, and now that the mount is fixed i cannot get tension on the bar because it is set that way. any help would be appreciated.

:banghead:
Click to expand...

The passenger side cross member socket should be clocked opposite of the drivers side. The passenger side should be clocked 5 degrees to the right of center and the drivers side should be clocked 5 degrees to the left of center. If you rewelded one side to be the same as the other, therein lies your problem.

Russ
 
Torsion bars cannot get a "set" as once you have the load on the bar it CANNOT twist farther. All adjusting the bolt does at that point is move the lower control arm away from the frame.
 
Hey guys , so I'm beginning to understand what your all saying , but there is still some issue with it . My car is at my friends shop and I called him to confirm how the torsion bar rear sockets are pretty much welded in how Russ said they should be , I think it might ba a degree off but nothing more than that . The problem is still there , on the drivers side the ajusting bolt is about half way in and it sits fine , and the passenger side tensioner bolt is screwed in about 3/4 in or even more to sit at the same ride height , and it seems like when I get in the car and roll for a couple feet it lowers it's selfe and rubs against my fender . Its even worse when my buddy gets in the car . Im sorry that my explanation of this issue might suck , but I'm trying my best to word this all right. Also I don't have anybody else to help me with this so for a bodies is the only option.

Thanks
Peter
 
You need to back the adjuster bolts all the way down. This lever should be all the way down before you insert the torsion bar in.
 

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yeah said:
Hey guys , so I'm beginning to understand what your all saying , but there is still some issue with it . My car is at my friends shop and I called him to confirm how the torsion bar rear sockets are pretty much welded in how Russ said they should be , I think it might ba a degree off but nothing more than that . The problem is still there , on the drivers side the ajusting bolt is about half way in and it sits fine , and the passenger side tensioner bolt is screwed in about 3/4 in or even more to sit at the same ride height , and it seems like when I get in the car and roll for a couple feet it lowers it's selfe and rubs against my fender . Its even worse when my buddy gets in the car . Im sorry that my explanation of this issue might suck , but I'm trying my best to word this all right. Also I don't have anybody else to help me with this so for a bodies is the only option.

Thanks
Peter
Click to expand...

Peter,

When you can, post some pictures of the sockets and also the lower control arm in the area of the TB adjuster. Maybe we will see something.

Russ
 
Hey , I will take pictures as soon as I can , and yes when I put the torsion bars in I screw the bolts all the way out . But now when this was brough up , does the little block need to be pulled out also ? To drop that lever all they way down or does the lever need to sit on the block ? Also the rod of the lca that goes through the k member does it have to be loose when I put the torsion bar in or does it need to be fully tightened .

Again thanks so much for the responses
 
IIRC when i did mine i had the pin though the K bolted. No you shouldnt have to remove the adjuster block to clock the lever all the way down. But if you dont clock that lever down you have less travel with the adjuster. Possibly not enough tension on the torsion bar. if it were me i would take both torsion bars out of the LCA. Make darn sure you got them levers clocked all the way down then install torsion bars. you may need to remove the UBJ and or the bump stops to get full travel. Clock then and install them together so you dont get different heights.
 
Well basically when I installed mine I did exactly what you just wrote me , the pin was bolted and the blocks were in when I stuck the torsion bars in .the bump stops were off and the spindle was separated at the ubj . And it's still off on both sides and the ajusting bolts are completely off passenger side being 3/4 or more screwed in and driver maybe 1/2 . Maybe I'm just stupid or something haha , but I don't get it . I know for sure that before I bought the car the torsion bar rear crossmember was messed with . So after fixing that I figured it would solve the problem but guess not
 
yeah said:
Hey , I will take pictures as soon as I can , and yes when I put the torsion bars in I screw the bolts all the way out . But now when this was brough up , does the little block need to be pulled out also ? To drop that lever all they way down or does the lever need to sit on the block ? Also the rod of the lca that goes through the k member does it have to be loose when I put the torsion bar in or does it need to be fully tightened .

Again thanks so much for the responses
Click to expand...

Peter,

When installing the bars, Make certain that the socket in the LCA is turned all the way toward the adjuster bolt. If need be, grab the socket with a channel lock or pipe wrench and turn it as far as it will move.

Russ
 
hey guys, so i was not feeling to god yesterday so i could not check. But today i measured everything and it seems like the passenger side rear torsion bar socket is off its at 7or 8 degrees when the driver is at 5 how Russ said. It makes sense, because when i mess with sticking in the torsion bar in the lca i cant get that lever in the control arm to be on the torsioning screw block. the lever is about quarter off from where its supposed to sit.
 
hey guys . so i could not check everything out yesterday cause i was not feeling to good. But today i measured everything out and it seems like the passenger side rear torsion bar socket is at like 7 or 8 degrees so its way off from the driver side . because how Russ said its supposed to be at 5 degrees. Also when im trying to stick in the torsion bar in i notice the the lever is not touching the torsion screw block how 72scamptramp said. Its off about a 1/4 . I guess now i have to cut out the passenger side socket out and re weld it to be at 5 degrees. I think that should solve my problem
 
:shock:

Dude. I don't mean to sound disparaging I find it hard to believe what I am reading here. Surprised no one has said anything to you yet. You're installing tubular A arms but you knew the t-bar socket was butchered. Your thought process is completely backwards - you need to make sure the cross member is right before ANYTHING else is done. Anything you do from here forward will not be right unless that cross member is repaired correctly.

From what you describe, it appears you are attempting something that you have a complete lack of knowledge or understanding about. Nothing wrong with trying but I think it would have been wiser to ask some questions (here or anywhere for that matter) about what you were getting yourself into before you broke out the torch and started your 'repair'.

Again, (in my opinion) you need to replace that ENTIRE cross member. The car is junk otherwise, it will never be right with you trying to 'fix' it by clocking the socket.

Outside of installing frame connectors and altering the K frame for clearance, messing with a stressed subframe on a unit body car that locates the front end components and helps support the front half of the car should be left to someone who has a very good understanding of chassis dynamics and is a Jedi-Master welder. Doing anything in this area with no clear plan and a complete lack of understanding is a recipe for disaster. Apparently you have learned this the hard way.

If you are dead set on fixing this car correctly instead of hauling it off for scrap, find a rust-free cross member somewhere and have a dedicated chassis shop install it for you. Make sure whoever does the work is a certified welder and has the capability to check it after it's in. That means that the welds have good penetration, the car can be aligned properly without too much adjustment after it's all in and assembled and will stay aligned after a thorough road test.

And like said above, I would be checking the entire car over thoroughly to make sure nothing else is butchered or beyond repair.

I hope I am misunderstanding this, my apologies for the harsh tone if I am. Post some pictures if you can so we have a visual reference.

Yikes.
 
hey rmchrgr no need for apologies at all , thanks for the info , its greatly appreciated. What it comes down to that i bought a car that was very broken i was 25 didnt really know that much but wanted a a body mopar. and thats where i mad the mistake. stuff was butchered and repaired wrong. Im paying for it now. The car is at my buddy's shop and he is a certified welder that knows what he is doing. When i was replacing the front suspension i did not notice that the rear crossmemeber was so messed up, so thats where i made the mistake. Again im paying for it. I was about to start looking for the crossmemebr but figured i would try fixing this first. Also the other problem is i think i live in a state where no shop knows what a mopar torsion bar suspension is haha, ive been to a couple shops and when i started to talk about how it works they really didn't know what was up. So i figured lets try fixing it first by ourselves and see where that takes us, if not im screwed and its coil-overs or finding some shop that actually knows whats up.
 
also form what we figured out that after the repair we clocked the socket to much as i said to 7 or 8 degrees and now we are making it 5 degrees how Ross said. From what we are seing right now its gonna fix the problem but again dont know. the lever arm in the lca is touching the block and its the same height as the driver side where its good.
 
yeah said:
hey rmchrgr no need for apologies at all , thanks for the info , its greatly appreciated. What it comes down to that i bought a car that was very broken i was 25 didnt really know that much but wanted a a body mopar. and thats where i mad the mistake. stuff was butchered and repaired wrong. Im paying for it now. The car is at my buddy's shop and he is a certified welder that knows what he is doing. When i was replacing the front suspension i did not notice that the rear crossmemeber was so messed up, so thats where i made the mistake. Again im paying for it. I was about to start looking for the crossmemebr but figured i would try fixing this first. Also the other problem is i think i live in a state where no shop knows what a mopar torsion bar suspension is haha, ive been to a couple shops and when i started to talk about how it works they really didn't know what was up. So i figured lets try fixing it first by ourselves and see where that takes us, if not im screwed and its coil-overs or finding some shop that actually knows whats up.
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Well, sounds like you understand the car is in need of some serious repairs and it's good that you took it to someone who 'knows what they are doing'. It's also somewhat lucky that you have someone willing to take the job on. Bet most shops wouldn't even touch it or would want big money to do it. It's no small job.

A torsion bar suspension system should not be a mystery to anyone in the automotive field with half a brain, there are plenty of vehicles (mostly trucks these days) that have t-bar suspensions. A torsion bar is just a spring. Most people think of a spring only as a coil but that's incorrect. The action of a torsion bar is to twist but it still supports the weight of the car and does the same job a coil spring does. The t bar design was excellent and Mopar employed it for a long time without much design change. Again, hard to imagine a t-bar front end is a mystery to anyone.

I also think everyone would be in agreement here that you should not be afraid to ask questions before you jump into something like this again, we're usually tripping over ourselves to help.

We all have done uninformed things, myself included. But again, PLEASE - fix that cross member CORRECTLY (whole thing) before you do anything else. Stop messing around with trying to clock it.
 
yes i know that lots of trucks still use them , and that its been used by Chrysler vehicles for a long time. And also i know it sounds weird , but the couple of shops that did metal fab i had to sit there and exlplain how it worked so i decided against it. You are right i am basically putting a bandage on it, but for now its gonna have to do. Dont really have the money to be dealing with high priced shops. But finding the whole cross member is a great idea, they make them for other mopars brand new so i will look at that asap .
 
yeah said:
they make them for other mopars brand new so i will look at that asap .
Click to expand...

I know AMD sells them for B and E bodies but not for As.

Like I said, you will have to find one somewhere. They're on Ebay sometimes. Get one from out west. Shipping will be killer but what can you do, it's either that or scrap the car. Post a want ad here, maybe you'll get lucky and find someone close to you.

Auto Rust Technicians have their cap things which slide over rusted out parts but those would not solve the problem of your f*cked up anchor. Perhaps maybe it could used as a template to locate the socket correctly but if it were me, I'd still want to replace the thing entirely. That way there is no guessing as to proper angularity and correct geometry as long as it's positioned exactly the same as the original.

Get a good spot weld cutter.
 
I want to thank you guys for the excellent dialog. Yesterday crossmember rot finally got to my 68 Dart (driver's side socket ripped loose), and I am trying to do a little research to see what my options are. I saw a replacement crossmember somewhere on this list, but I guess it was not for an A body given what rmchrgr is saying. Replacement would be my first choice, but I do want to get this Dart back on the road as my daily driver again.
 
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