Trick flow 240s on milder builds versus Edelbrock RPMs

Big Block A body Tech

  1. DC Dart

    DC Dart New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2019
    Location:
    Oregon
    Local Time:
    4:34 PM
    Hello. New to the forum. I was wondering at what level of horsepower the trick flows become more advantageous over the RPMs. A lot of people are using the trick flow heads in the 550 plus horsepower level but how do they perform around 500hp. Would the RPMs have an edge in the lower horsepower levels?
    Where I am going with this is that several years ago I bought a 440 source 451 stroker kit and had a 400 block machined and prepped. At the time Edelbrock RPMs were the plan with 84cc chambers. I had purchased the 4cc flat top pistons for around 10 to 1 comp. Pistons approximately .008 in the hole. The Trick flows 78cc would be a half point higher approximately. Not sure when I will have time assemble and get solid numbers. Wondering how the heads would differ around the 500 hp mark. Going to run a roller lifters and a cam in the 230s 240s duration range @.050lift? I am wondering if I should go the trick flows even though my compression would be on the high side.
    The car is a 68 Dart will be 4 speed or t56 with 355 gears. May go steeper gears later. Maybe hit the track on occasion but main use would be fun street car.
     
  2. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod 30 Degrees Outta Whack FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    57,311
    Likes Received:
    26743
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    Local Time:
    7:34 PM
    Just compare flow numbers. Do the Trick Flows outflow the Eddies at low lift? If so, there's your answer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

      Messages:
      36,676
      Likes Received:
      8510
      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2005
      Location:
      New York, on a Island
      Local Time:
      7:34 PM
      What are the theoretical compression ratios between the two heads?
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod 30 Degrees Outta Whack FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        57,311
        Likes Received:
        26743
        Joined:
        Jun 7, 2010
        Location:
        Georgia
        Local Time:
        7:34 PM
        Eddy has 84cc, Trick Flow has 78cc "if that helps".
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • rumblefish360

          rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

          Messages:
          36,676
          Likes Received:
          8510
          Joined:
          Jun 21, 2005
          Location:
          New York, on a Island
          Local Time:
          7:34 PM
          I don’t have a calc handy at the moment...
          This calculation he should know. Missing gasket dimensions as well. I’d like to know something about the cam as well.
          Also, what is his best available octane?

          I think it’ll be a pump gas engine no problem, just want to be sure.
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • roccodart440

            roccodart440 Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            5,372
            Likes Received:
            4372
            Joined:
            Apr 19, 2010
            Local Time:
            7:34 PM
            Sounds like a fun combo and don't let anyone tlak you out of that solid roller cam.

            J
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • cookietruck

              cookietruck Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              689
              Likes Received:
              113
              Joined:
              Jun 25, 2012
              Location:
              alkdfnoi
              Local Time:
              6:34 PM
              i'm curious how the power curves would differ in combo like this if only the heads were the difference (meaning the compression ratio would be different too).

              would more torque at lower rpm be expected from the 210cc heads or would the TF 240cc heads make up for the port volume with the excellent low lift flow??
               
            • PRH

              PRH Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              1,249
              Likes Received:
              1885
              Joined:
              Dec 14, 2018
              Location:
              So. Burlington, Vt
              Local Time:
              7:34 PM
              If you don’t have heads, and the TF heads are within your budget...... buy those.

              If you already have the Ede’s...... I’d use ‘em.
               
              • Agree Agree x 3
              • Like Like x 1
              • IQ52

                IQ52 Well-Known Member

                Messages:
                2,383
                Likes Received:
                1664
                Joined:
                Jul 30, 2011
                Location:
                Idaho
                Local Time:
                5:34 PM
                Sage advice. If you already have the RPM heads......use them.
                Simply for reference, on my bench with the only OOTB 240 heads I have tested, here are the airflow differences vs OOTB RPM.

                Lift............240 additional cfm
                .100..........+0
                .200..........+0
                .300..........+11
                .400..........+37
                .500..........+58
                .600..........+65
                .700..........+53

                I do like the additional 240 airflow.
                 
                • Like Like x 3
                • Thanks! Thanks! x 2
                • roccodart440

                  roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  5,372
                  Likes Received:
                  4372
                  Joined:
                  Apr 19, 2010
                  Local Time:
                  7:34 PM
                  In my experience, better heads with more compression will make more HP ata similar RPM and more TQ at a higher RPM.

                  Those differences IQ52 posted are pretty substantial if you haven't bought heads yet and can afford the 240's
                   
                • rumblefish360

                  rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                  Messages:
                  36,676
                  Likes Received:
                  8510
                  Joined:
                  Jun 21, 2005
                  Location:
                  New York, on a Island
                  Local Time:
                  7:34 PM
                  Not to mention the more you put in the combo, the more your going to get out of the combo. While that is a “No duh!” Statement, what people sometimes miss is the broadening spread in power as the wick is turned up.

                  I do like the TF heads. I have no BB heads, so they would be my choice. If you have the Edelbrock heads, now is a good time to decide if any port work to them is within the wallets thickness.

                  (Edit-spelling)
                   
                  Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 9:08 AM
                • roccodart440

                  roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  5,372
                  Likes Received:
                  4372
                  Joined:
                  Apr 19, 2010
                  Local Time:
                  7:34 PM

                  example on exact same engine

                  peak = 514ft lbs at 3500 vs. 515ft lbs at 3500 and peak = 575@4500
                   
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                    Messages:
                    36,676
                    Likes Received:
                    8510
                    Joined:
                    Jun 21, 2005
                    Location:
                    New York, on a Island
                    Local Time:
                    7:34 PM
                    Nice, a 61 ft. Lbs. difference.

                    Saaaaaa-weeeeet!!!
                     
                    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                    • Ottmundr

                      Ottmundr 68 Fastback

                      Messages:
                      5,011
                      Likes Received:
                      7085
                      Joined:
                      Oct 5, 2012
                      Location:
                      Sonoma
                      Local Time:
                      4:34 PM
                      Just a thought here, will you really need steeper gears than 3.55 with a 451 stroker? Even with the eddy heads are you going to be able to get traction? Without traction, no amount of power, torque or gearing is going to help you.
                       
                      • Disagree Disagree x 1
                      • rumblefish360

                        rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                        Messages:
                        36,676
                        Likes Received:
                        8510
                        Joined:
                        Jun 21, 2005
                        Location:
                        New York, on a Island
                        Local Time:
                        7:34 PM
                        I see your point there, however, depending on tire size/compound and suspension, a street machine should be able to do something.

                        The wrong tire. LMAO! Even my lowly smog era, ‘79 - 400 smoked the crap out of the 27 inch Copper Cobras with 3.55’s.
                         
                        • Agree Agree x 1
                        • roccodart440

                          roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                          Messages:
                          5,372
                          Likes Received:
                          4372
                          Joined:
                          Apr 19, 2010
                          Local Time:
                          7:34 PM
                          As power goes up, gear ratio will have to become taller, add an OD, run a taller tire or a combo of all three.

                          A mild 451 should make 500-600hp, moderate, 600-700, hot..700+

                          Right now I'm in a bad predicament with mine. I added power and now have to shift OD to trap at 1320 or switch to taller gears.

                          I've never had the gear ratio I was running affect my car hooking up. tires, shocks, springs, yes. While maybe not ideal and leaving some time on the table, 3.55's will pull just fine through the traps with anything approaching 600hp/600ft/lbs.
                           
                          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                          • rumblefish360

                            rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                            Messages:
                            36,676
                            Likes Received:
                            8510
                            Joined:
                            Jun 21, 2005
                            Location:
                            New York, on a Island
                            Local Time:
                            7:34 PM
                            Rocco, your sporting 3.55’s now?
                            With what tire size?
                            Thanks
                             
                            • Like Like x 1
                            • IQ52

                              IQ52 Well-Known Member

                              Messages:
                              2,383
                              Likes Received:
                              1664
                              Joined:
                              Jul 30, 2011
                              Location:
                              Idaho
                              Local Time:
                              5:34 PM
                              No. 500 horsepower is 500 horsepower. Besides, I have similar 240 and RPM builds on 440 ci engines with the 240s showing 550-570 LB-FT at 3,500 rpm and RPM heads showing 540 LB-FT @ 3,500 rpm.
                               
                              Last edited: Jan 14, 2020 at 5:47 PM
                              • Like Like x 1
                              • PRH

                                PRH Well-Known Member

                                Messages:
                                1,249
                                Likes Received:
                                1885
                                Joined:
                                Dec 14, 2018
                                Location:
                                So. Burlington, Vt
                                Local Time:
                                7:34 PM
                                If you had the motor making 500hp with the ootb RPM heads....... removed and replaced them with ootb TF heads...... the difference will be......you’ll have more power.

                                Even if the power difference at that level isn’t all that much...... the price difference between the two isn’t that much either.
                                 
                                • Agree Agree x 2
                                • Like Like x 1
                                • DC Dart

                                  DC Dart New Member

                                  Messages:
                                  4
                                  Likes Received:
                                  0
                                  Joined:
                                  Dec 18, 2019
                                  Location:
                                  Oregon
                                  Local Time:
                                  4:34 PM
                                  So the trick flows perform the best even at the lower power levels. What are the thoughts on compression? The Edelbrocks would be around 10to1 and the trick flows would be around 10.5. 440 source list my pistons at -.025 in the hole being 10.4comp and 9.9 with 84cc. with .039 head gasket. I am down .008. Premium is 92 octane around here.
                                  And I apologize for being one of the guys that asks questions with limited info. Cam is undecided but going roller. planning on sniper fuel injection with their distributer and TTI headers 1 3\4. Performer rpm intake. Have the heavy main 230 block with main studs yeah( typical core shift waah). Can get the Eddys for about $660. cheaper than trick flows. But if the compression is not to high would go trick flow.
                                   
                                • rumblefish360

                                  rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                                  Messages:
                                  36,676
                                  Likes Received:
                                  8510
                                  Joined:
                                  Jun 21, 2005
                                  Location:
                                  New York, on a Island
                                  Local Time:
                                  7:34 PM
                                  If should be OK, 92 octane @ 10.5-1.
                                  Your probably going to have a reasonable sized cam in there. Right?

                                  I’m doing 11-1 w/93 available to me.
                                  A Hyd. roller cam is employed @224@.050.
                                   
                                  • Agree Agree x 1
                                  • roccodart440

                                    roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                                    Messages:
                                    5,372
                                    Likes Received:
                                    4372
                                    Joined:
                                    Apr 19, 2010
                                    Local Time:
                                    7:34 PM
                                    I was, with 26" tall tires. I went to 4.56 gears, 28's and a GVOD.
                                     
                                    • Like Like x 1
                                    • roccodart440

                                      roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                                      Messages:
                                      5,372
                                      Likes Received:
                                      4372
                                      Joined:
                                      Apr 19, 2010
                                      Local Time:
                                      7:34 PM
                                      A decent sized cam and/or a wider LSA. CAm essentially needs to be cut with compression and fuel in mind.
                                       
                                      • Agree Agree x 1
                                      • rumblefish360

                                        rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away

                                        Messages:
                                        36,676
                                        Likes Received:
                                        8510
                                        Joined:
                                        Jun 21, 2005
                                        Location:
                                        New York, on a Island
                                        Local Time:
                                        7:34 PM
                                        Wider or narrower LSA?
                                         
                                      • roccodart440

                                        roccodart440 Well-Known Member

                                        Messages:
                                        5,372
                                        Likes Received:
                                        4372
                                        Joined:
                                        Apr 19, 2010
                                        Local Time:
                                        7:34 PM
                                        Wider LSA will be more octane tolerant
                                         
                                      1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                                        By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.