Trouble with MT ET Street Radials

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BrianT

BrianT

Here we go again...
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I am starting this thread to document the problems I am having and hopefully come to some sort of resolution with MT or Summit Racing.

Last week I bought a pair of MT ET Street Radials P325/50R15 and also a pair of Center Line Competition series Qualifier wheels 15X10 from Summit Racing. The wheels and tires arrived promptly and appeared to be in good shape, although one of the wheels came in a plain cardboard box (more on that later) and the other came in a CL wheel box. Here is a pic showing the two different wheel boxes on my front porch at delivery.

img1292536537516.jpg


I took one of the wheels (the one out of the plain cardboard box), and one tire to work today. I work at a major Lexus dealer and have the proper Hunter tire machine and balancer to mount and balance the tire without any damage to either wheel or tire. I don't work as a mechanic so I had my buddy mount the tire to the wheel for me. It mounted up without a hitch. We put the dot on the sidewall that indicates the lightest part of the tire next to the valve.

When we put the wheel/tire combo onto our Hunter wheel balancer, my buddy tried to balance the wheel as we do with any other aftermarket wheel. We try to balance them with all of the weights being taped to the inside of the wheel and not visible from the outside. When the machine was done, it said that we needed to add over 300 grams of weight to balance the wheel!! We tried rotating the tire 90 degrees each way, but with similar but not exactly the same results. After messing with it for almost an hour and calling 3 other mechanics over to look at it, we decided to walk away from it for now and to make a few calls to MT and Summit to see what they thought.

When I got home I called MT and spoke to someone on their tech line, I wish I would have gotten his name, he basically blamed Center Line and said that I should dismount the tire and spin the wheel by itself and see how out of balance the wheel is by itself. He had never heard of those tires taking more than a usual amounts of weight to bring them into balance?!? I didn't want to call him a liar, but I have found numerous threads on numerous forums sighting quality control problems with these tires. He said any refund or exchange would have to be handled through Summit.

I immediately called Summit Racing and spoke with Rex in their customer service dept. He suggested trying to flip the tire the other direction and also spinning the wheel by itself on the balancer. He said to mount the other wheel and tire and see if we have a similar problem with that pair. He said if we determine that there is a problem with either the wheels or tires, he will send me a return packing label and I can ship them back to them for an exchange or refund. I explained to him that I am not looking for a refund just a good usable wheel/tire combo that I paid for. I commend Summit for it's great customer service!

I do question why the one CL wheel came in a plain cardboard box and not a CL logo'd box like the other. Was it returned to Summit because of a problem and then reboxed and sold to me?!? I guess we'll find out more when I spin it up without the tire on it.

I will take the other wheel and tire to work on Monday and see if we have similar problems with that combo. Sorry for the long thread, but I am documenting everything to cover my ***! I saved a long time working side jobs to buy these wheels and tires, and thought I was buying a good quality product. Here is a picture of the wheel/tire combo sitting under the Christmas tree!!

tiresandwheels010Medium.jpg
 
Not surprised to hear that MT says nothing is wrong, never heard of the issue. Seems to be commonplace amongst manufacturers ranging from tires, to camshafts, to tti headers, etc. I used to sell a LOT of tires and crap happens, especially when you start getting heavy tires with large diameters.

It may be the wheel run out issue.

Good to see that you are going to spin the wheel by itself. Scientifically get to the root issue.

Nice that summit will handle the issue and square it away regardless of what you find. hard to be that if/when they follow through.
 
Between me and my dad we have had 4 or so pairs of the same tires and we have had no trouble with any of them balancing out. Only problem was a belt or something broke in one of them and put a huge bubble on the sidewall.
 
That a pretty deep dish wheel. Not much area on the rear of wheel to balance with. Might also set the balancer for a standard balance (weights on both sides) to just see what happens without actually adding the weights before you dismount tires.

Nice looking wheels & tires by the way.
 
I have 2 sets of these tires and they are great, balanced out with barely any weight needed. When you go to a big tire like that it will take more weight to balance out, just like 4x4 truck tires. It could be the rim, just spin the rim by itself and watch for a wobble. Also make sure it is on the machine correctly, that there isn't any dirt on the machine or anythine else preventing the rim from being mounted flush.

If everything checks out, then it is the tire. Remember when applying stick on weights, they should be moved to the center of the rim as much as possible, leaving them on the inside lip will result in it taking more weight, also, don't mount them so you can't see them, they need to be put on where the machine says. Aftermarket wheels can be difficult.

You can also use the powder balance, it comes in a little bag and you leave it in the tire when you mount it to the rim. It breaks apart after a few miles and then it balances your tire out as you drive. 2 brands I have used are "Equal" and "Counteract" these can be found at most tire shops, lots of truckers use these on their big rigs. When you go this route, you can ditch all of your wheel weights.

Good luck
 
I just calculated it out to just over 10 ounces. I have found that you are battling some differnet things here. First off most bias sticky tires take a lot of weight to balance, although I have found radials to be much better they can still take a lot of weight since they are so big. Second, as mentioned earlier, balancing a rim from the inside is less than ideal and will take a lot of weight, 10 ounces? that is excessive but I regularly see 6 ounces. I worked in a tire shop for a few years and mounted countless slicks and sticky street tires.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions guys, and I will certainly try all of them (except putting weights on the outside). We balance a lot of wide aftermarket wheels at the dealership, but none as big as my drag radials. Mostly 18-22 inch rims that guys put on their Lexus'. Also, the local SCCA guys bring their cars here to get their race tires mounted and their cars aligned because we have a mechanic who is a member. So we see quite a lot of wide wheels and race type tires. The dealership has thousands of dollars tied up in the latest and greatest in tire technology!!

Sedan, it's interesting that you brought up the "powder balancer". A good friend of mine owns a local repair facility and I was shooting the breeze in his office one day, and he had several of them laying on his desk. He explained how they work, and said that they were used on OTR trucks. They were going to give them a try on customer's trucks with larger tires. I don't want to try this yet because it might effect my ability to exchange the tires, but it is something to think about.
 
66340SEDAN said:
I have 2 sets of these tires and they are great, balanced out with barely any weight needed. When you go to a big tire like that it will take more weight to balance out, just like 4x4 truck tires. It could be the rim, just spin the rim by itself and watch for a wobble. Also make sure it is on the machine correctly, that there isn't any dirt on the machine or anythine else preventing the rim from being mounted flush.

If everything checks out, then it is the tire. Remember when applying stick on weights, they should be moved to the center of the rim as much as possible, leaving them on the inside lip will result in it taking more weight, also, don't mount them so you can't see them, they need to be put on where the machine says. Aftermarket wheels can be difficult.

You can also use the powder balance, it comes in a little bag and you leave it in the tire when you mount it to the rim. It breaks apart after a few miles and then it balances your tire out as you drive. 2 brands I have used are "Equal" and "Counteract" these can be found at most tire shops, lots of truckers use these on their big rigs. When you go this route, you can ditch all of your wheel weights.

Good luck
Click to expand...

thanks for this info. I never knew this and will look in to it.DD
 
All it is is powder, it wont hurt the rim or tire, will clean out with a vacuum cleaner and a dry rag.
 
Summit Racing will take care of you. I had a set of Hoosier quick times that dry rotted with in months. Hoosier blamed it on me. Summit took care of the issue.
 
AdamR said:
Summit Racing will take care of you. I had a set of Hoosier quick times that dry rotted with in months. Hoosier blamed it on me. Summit took care of the issue.
Click to expand...

Had the same problem but was to stupid to think about returning them. Last set of Hoosiers I will buy.
 
I feel confident that Summit Racing will take care of the problem. Just in case they don't, I am documenting everything in this thread for future evidence.

Update: We have been busy at work this week before the Christmas holiday, so I haven't had any time to mount the other tire up. Next week is typically the slowest week of the year, so I should be able to work with these wheels and tires then.
 
How are you fitting 325x50x15 tires under a Dart? Did you cut the wheel opening? Tubs?
 
When I changed my tires over to MT's. I had a problem balancing them.
I have Weld Pro Stars. With the loose center in the half's of the rim.
The first time I mounted the BFG drag radials I used a lower line Hunter
balancer. The tires and rims balanced out great.
Then when I bought the MT's,I was working at a Honda dealer with one
of those real fancy balance machines. Made for those real big wheels 17-20's
I could not get them to balance out. It kept calling for more and more weight. I tryed everything. I was trying everywhich way to balance them.
Then I went to a buddies shop. He had a balancer like I used with the BFG's.
I figured what the hell and tryed it. They balanced out great. Not much
weights. I even used the clip on weights on the inside only. Hate looking at
them even on just the race wheels.
I had problems with that balancer at the dealership alot.
Try another balancer. Make sure it's on the machine good and tight.
The Welds center rattled if the rim wasn't tight. Less chance for slipping.
I also found that if I would put the rim back right on the machine with the
cone to center it on the front face, so it wouldn't scratch the rim. I had the
best results.
Just my experance. Hope this might help you. Brian.
 
more than likely came in a plain box because someose else had the same problem as you and returned it to summit racing. I know when i get new parts my kids get new boxes to play in so it would not suprise me to have to get a box to ship it back
 
Looks like a nice set up! I'm curious do you need to run tubes in these or are they tube-less? Be sure to let us know what you find out onthe balance.
 
Brian,
I am local.

I sell W&T for a living at a major WD that sells Mickey.

If you don't get a reasonable resolution, PM me. I have options.
 
CUDA69 said:
How are you fitting 325x50x15 tires under a Dart? Did you cut the wheel opening? Tubs?
Click to expand...

The Dart is mini-tubbed and the springs are moved over to the frame rails. The Strange 60 rear end is 8 inches narrower than a stock A body rear end.

briankaplan said:
When I changed my tires over to MT's. I had a problem balancing them.
I have Weld Pro Stars. With the loose center in the half's of the rim.
The first time I mounted the BFG drag radials I used a lower line Hunter
balancer. The tires and rims balanced out great.
Then when I bought the MT's,I was working at a Honda dealer with one
of those real fancy balance machines. Made for those real big wheels 17-20's
I could not get them to balance out. It kept calling for more and more weight. I tryed everything. I was trying everywhich way to balance them.
Then I went to a buddies shop. He had a balancer like I used with the BFG's.
I figured what the hell and tryed it. They balanced out great. Not much
weights. I even used the clip on weights on the inside only. Hate looking at
them even on just the race wheels.
I had problems with that balancer at the dealership alot.
Try another balancer. Make sure it's on the machine good and tight.
The Welds center rattled if the rim wasn't tight. Less chance for slipping.
I also found that if I would put the rim back right on the machine with the
cone to center it on the front face, so it wouldn't scratch the rim. I had the
best results.
Just my experance. Hope this might help you. Brian.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your suggestions. I took down the Hunter reps name and number off of the balancer and will be calling him next week for any suggestions. I have access to other balancers if necessary.

superbee79 said:
more than likely came in a plain box because someose else had the same problem as you and returned it to summit racing. I know when i get new parts my kids get new boxes to play in so it would not suprise me to have to get a box to ship it back
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking, that's why I mentioned it and put a picture of it in this post!

Taconite said:
Looks like a nice set up! I'm curious do you need to run tubes in these or are they tube-less? Be sure to let us know what you find out onthe balance.
Click to expand...

Tubeless.

Backtobasics said:
I sell W&T for a living at a major WD that sells Mickey.

If you don't get a reasonable resolution, PM me. I have options.
Click to expand...

Would have been good to know before I ordered from Summit!!! Thanks!!!
 
Update: After a busy two weeks I was able to take the wheels and tires into work today to try again. We mounted the other tire and it was also almost 200 grams out of balance. We checked the balancer, and no one could figure out how to do a static balance. My buddy had cars waiting so we basically gave up again, with both tires now mounted but not balanced.

On the way home I stopped by a place called Hot Rod Express. It's a small speed shop that sells wheels and tires. The guy there said that he could static balance the tires for $10 each. After he balanced the the first tire, he came out and said that the problem was my "piece of ****" wheels!!! I said hold on, those are $200 Center Line wheels that claim to use the latest and greatest technology and each wheel is measured for precise run out. He showed me the back of the wheel where it had been mounted in a lathe and ground down to bring the wheel back into tolerance. Here is a picture showing where the wheel was ground and where the 4 oz of weights were placed.

Tires021Medium.jpg


He balanced the other wheel and it took 8 oz of weight, but had the same grinding marks on it.

Tires020Medium.jpg


He said that both wheels zero'd out on his balancer and should be fine. I agree, but am not sure how I feel about Center Lines quality control. Is this a common practice with these wheels? I paid extra to get a quality made in USA product and now I don't know if that's what I got?!?!?
 
IMO those wheels are junk! What are they trying to pull with that garbage, that is not right, wheels should spin nice and even/true too, send them back.
 
zhandfull said:
Had the same problem but was to stupid to think about returning them. Last set of Hoosiers I will buy.
Click to expand...

me too, but i tried to deal with hoosier, they offerd me a new set if i paid shipping both ways, why would i want to pay that much more money to hae the same crap. ill never buy hoosiers again either. i agree that a big tire and with wieghts only on the back can take an awful lot of weight to balance.
 
I have some Convo Pros and had no problems. I would not run those - not for the money you're paying. Call Summit and see what they have to say about exchanging those.
 
They sure are some nice looking wheels... but CL trying to fix a problem they have with the manufacture of the wheels and then trying to fix the issue on a lathe is low quality control in my book. I have never been a fan of CL so I never had own any. Good luck Brian.
 
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