bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah that has the potential to really save some space!
Turbo Scamp
- Thread starter GoFish
- Start date
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Yeah that has the potential to really save some space!
BOSS VEGA V8
Senior Citizen
yea, but this is a street car,and also the remote electric pump isnt going to completely remove cooling from the front cover so its still going to come foward, just as the mechanical pump...ALSo there isnt ANY room for a divorced waterpump to be placed in this car....as it is we are limited with space..also, mechanical pump is better because you can buy them anywhere!....this is going to be a daily driven car...and not like most peoples diffinition of daily driver, this means bumper to bumper traffic in LA every day!
will save more than you think, only the elbows from the inlet/ outlet, as far as reliability with a mecanical pump and finding parts when away from home, i don't think this will be a car that will be worked on in front of PEP boys.
I ran a remote Chevy electric on a turbo a body and it worked great and saved space, and as a bonus, it looked "trick"
Joe Mc
No Car Like A MoPar!
I've seen the remote WP located in the fenderwell just aft of the head lamp assy, not on a MoPar mind you, but it did save a good deal of space in the engine compartment.
Another thought I figured may be helpful with making your engine last, monitor the exhaust gas temperature (EGT).
Not that you don't already know this but figured it would be good to mention as others reading this thread may not know - Turbos are a compressor of sorts, when air is compressed temperature increases, we all know the cooler the air the more dense = better combustion. This is a give and take when turbo-charging and/or supercharging (blower), which is why the inter-cooler is key = it helps reduce the temperature of the air leaving whatever charger is being used to hopefully give more PSI and less temp.
Example of why monitoring EGT is a "good thing": on my truck (see sig) at about mid throttle going up hill no load, I typically see around 900 - 1100 degrees with the power box on the lowest setting (total rwhp per dyno 410) - this is all relative to conditions = load, speed, did I just hit the throttle and am increasing speed as I'm going uphill. At cruise, on level road, no load and maintaining speed EGT's are usually between 600 - 700. With the power box on the highest setting (rwhp 525) and "getting with it" the EGT gauge will peg (1500) - this is OK for short periods, like a quarter mile blast. I've seen many guys meltdown pistons by not paying attention to the EGT gauge and staying in the throttle way to long. Aluminum melts at 1220 degrees, so a 1500 EGT means your pistons are probably pretty close to 1100 +/-, the more you stay into it the more the pistons absorb heat and the more prone to failure things become and etc, etc.
ale:
This is why the inter-cooler is key, imagine if your inlet air temps are ambient say 100 degrees and then get increased 2X minimally as it leaves the turbo, without the inter-cooler you are dumping superheated air 200+ degrees into an already hot environment = the combustion chamber. Now stay into the throttle on a high speed run and think about how hot those pistons are getting.
The best place to put the EGT probe is "pre-turbo" as the turbo itself will absorb and dissipate some of the exhaust heat - so if the temp probe is post turbo in the exhaust pipe you will be getting a temp reading 100 - 300 degrees less than with the probe pre-turbo. Which means, with the EGT probe post you'll be seeing 900 - 1000 degrees when the EGT could actually be 1200 to 1500. So, if you're running headers (I'm pretty sure I saw them on the engine in this thread) the collector would probably be the best place to locate the probe. Actually dual (left bank + right bank) EGT gauges would be better, as you'd be able to monitor EGT from both banks of the engine. Ideally the closer to the head the probe is the more accurate the reading, but with headers if you located the probe close to the head you'd end up in a single tube and only be monitoring one piston, whereas with an exhaust manifold and the probe located at the manifold outlet it's monitoring the temp of the whole "bank". So, the collector is probably the best location.
As with any gauge, it is the "eye" into the specific area of an engine and will tell the tale of what's happening inside.
Hope this may help a bit. My $0.02 - and once again great build.
Man that was way long - sorry to go on about my thoughts . . .
Another thought I figured may be helpful with making your engine last, monitor the exhaust gas temperature (EGT).
Not that you don't already know this but figured it would be good to mention as others reading this thread may not know - Turbos are a compressor of sorts, when air is compressed temperature increases, we all know the cooler the air the more dense = better combustion. This is a give and take when turbo-charging and/or supercharging (blower), which is why the inter-cooler is key = it helps reduce the temperature of the air leaving whatever charger is being used to hopefully give more PSI and less temp.
Example of why monitoring EGT is a "good thing": on my truck (see sig) at about mid throttle going up hill no load, I typically see around 900 - 1100 degrees with the power box on the lowest setting (total rwhp per dyno 410) - this is all relative to conditions = load, speed, did I just hit the throttle and am increasing speed as I'm going uphill. At cruise, on level road, no load and maintaining speed EGT's are usually between 600 - 700. With the power box on the highest setting (rwhp 525) and "getting with it" the EGT gauge will peg (1500) - this is OK for short periods, like a quarter mile blast. I've seen many guys meltdown pistons by not paying attention to the EGT gauge and staying in the throttle way to long. Aluminum melts at 1220 degrees, so a 1500 EGT means your pistons are probably pretty close to 1100 +/-, the more you stay into it the more the pistons absorb heat and the more prone to failure things become and etc, etc.
ale:This is why the inter-cooler is key, imagine if your inlet air temps are ambient say 100 degrees and then get increased 2X minimally as it leaves the turbo, without the inter-cooler you are dumping superheated air 200+ degrees into an already hot environment = the combustion chamber. Now stay into the throttle on a high speed run and think about how hot those pistons are getting.
The best place to put the EGT probe is "pre-turbo" as the turbo itself will absorb and dissipate some of the exhaust heat - so if the temp probe is post turbo in the exhaust pipe you will be getting a temp reading 100 - 300 degrees less than with the probe pre-turbo. Which means, with the EGT probe post you'll be seeing 900 - 1000 degrees when the EGT could actually be 1200 to 1500. So, if you're running headers (I'm pretty sure I saw them on the engine in this thread) the collector would probably be the best place to locate the probe. Actually dual (left bank + right bank) EGT gauges would be better, as you'd be able to monitor EGT from both banks of the engine. Ideally the closer to the head the probe is the more accurate the reading, but with headers if you located the probe close to the head you'd end up in a single tube and only be monitoring one piston, whereas with an exhaust manifold and the probe located at the manifold outlet it's monitoring the temp of the whole "bank". So, the collector is probably the best location.
As with any gauge, it is the "eye" into the specific area of an engine and will tell the tale of what's happening inside.
Hope this may help a bit. My $0.02 - and once again great build.
Man that was way long - sorry to go on about my thoughts . . .
BOSS VEGA V8
Senior Citizen
believe me,with the size of the turbo, A/C,and everything else under that hood and the need for this to be a daily driven to work car (everyday rain or shine)a mechanical pump is the way togo..ive been working on this car for a year now, i have explored all the different options...also, the A/C compressor is right above where the pumpand actualy the same distance out as the pump its really not going to gain too much room. also, if it needs a waterpump or whatever else its not a car that realy can be put up for a week or so for oddball parts.
GoFish
Have impressive member
All kind of a moot point until I get the radiator and fans in and see if our measurements were correct. If I'm right, everything will fit (suck in that belly!) with the mechanical pump.
Maybe I just need to add a Superbird nose cone for more space!! :-D
Maybe I just need to add a Superbird nose cone for more space!! :-D
BOSS VEGA V8
Senior Citizen
remember ,if it was a dart you would have a additional 3inches of room....
mopar340dave
Well-Known Member
Still no radiator? Try one of these, maybe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
I could build you a custom shroud, too.
Maybe see if they have one with higher cooling capacity.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WOW-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
I could build you a custom shroud, too.
Maybe see if they have one with higher cooling capacity.
GoFish
Have impressive member
Well I ordered the radiator/fans, etc. through Summit, but I'm waiting on their arrival. Originally they estimated the ship date as 2/18, but the current estimated ship date is 3/15.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BCI-80199/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BCI-80199/
turbodart68
Well-Known Member
I have used the remote pump twice and I saw no difference in cooling. I guess I am missing the reasons why its worse than a mechanical pump. The electric pumps put out more GPM than stock mechanicals.
As far as boost goes. 10hp per 1 psi boost. If that was the case then my 340 made 850hp N/A! I goes more like this 14.7 is atmosheric pressure. You double that number (15 pounds of boost) you will double your HP. Of course thats a rule of thumb, most turbo motors easily surpass that through the use of GIANT intercoolers, just like the intercooler being used here.
On a side note, check out the turboforums.com its very enlightening.
As far as boost goes. 10hp per 1 psi boost. If that was the case then my 340 made 850hp N/A! I goes more like this 14.7 is atmosheric pressure. You double that number (15 pounds of boost) you will double your HP. Of course thats a rule of thumb, most turbo motors easily surpass that through the use of GIANT intercoolers, just like the intercooler being used here.
On a side note, check out the turboforums.com its very enlightening.
GoFish
Have impressive member
Cooling system has arrived! May take a very small amount of trimming, but looks like it will drop right in and leave room for mechanical water pump. Check it out!
GoFish
Have impressive member
Prior to installation, here's how the radiator and intercooler match up. There will be a small isolator installed to separate them, but they are perfectly matched. Check out the tight clearance between the intercooler inlet and outlet on either side of the radiator. Those are each 3".
Joe Mc
No Car Like A MoPar!
Looks like you're going to have fun putting the boost boots on with those close clearances. Keep the car-**** coming
Caddguy
Well-Known Member
Man, that thing looks great! I think the look of the seats are dead on and the gauge cluster is what I have been looking for. The motor is just a monster. Can not wait for more pics!!! Thanks for sharing. :cheers:
GoFish
Have impressive member
Haha. A minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. Much harder will be figuring out a hood latch mechanism since the core support and other metal in the front will be drastically altered for increased air flow. (The stock grill will still be used and contribute to the "sleeper" look.)
bayyum
Well-Known Member
looks good, keep the pictures coming
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
Hood pins!Great build!8)
PanGasket
has cork sides
Id have to say that too. Hood pins in the same color as your hood to keep the covert look. They also sell boom pins at any west marine or anything like that u might be able to fab up and have a push pin without the keyring on it.
68GTconvert
Well-Known Member
That thing is really cool. Great work.
GoFish
Have impressive member
I know, I know. Hood pins.
I'm torn...I REALLY want to keep the sleeper look, so I've been avoiding the idea of hood pins. My only hood pin experience is with my '70 'Cuda, and those are really just cosmetic--they're only for looks, and a real working latch actually holds the hood down. I don't think painting the pins would help, since they are bound to scratch and chip with use. They might look stealthy at first, but with use, they'd just draw attention from being scratched.
I'll have a better idea of what I can do once I see what's left up front after the cutting takes place. I've learned that if I jump ahead and spend time and money on solutions before they're needed, it's usually wasted time and money because the solutions won't work as imagined. Once I see what I have to work with, a better plan can be formed.
I'm torn...I REALLY want to keep the sleeper look, so I've been avoiding the idea of hood pins. My only hood pin experience is with my '70 'Cuda, and those are really just cosmetic--they're only for looks, and a real working latch actually holds the hood down. I don't think painting the pins would help, since they are bound to scratch and chip with use. They might look stealthy at first, but with use, they'd just draw attention from being scratched.
I'll have a better idea of what I can do once I see what's left up front after the cutting takes place. I've learned that if I jump ahead and spend time and money on solutions before they're needed, it's usually wasted time and money because the solutions won't work as imagined. Once I see what I have to work with, a better plan can be formed.
black betty
Well-Known Member
Hinge the hood at the front and put the latch on the firewall or put the pins on the hood so they stick down you would just need to figure out how to get to the cotter pins. Maybe real long ones that just stick past the front of the grill. Not sure if that makes sense at least i know what im saying LOL.
Joe Mc
No Car Like A MoPar!
Didn't notice that. Hmmmmm, you could put hinges on the front of the hood (tilt forward) and get latches off a Vette or Saab and somehow work them into the firewall/cowl? That would add to the "Man that car is really different than any other".=P~
GoFish
Have impressive member
Well, hood pins will DEFINITELY be a part of the car now. All the cuts required to fit the HUGE radiator and intercooler are complete. Had to notch the framerails a bit as well. All has been welded to insure structural integrity, and reinforced with steel rod.
GTXperience
Orig Stealth Mod
Mike, it is looking good! This has to be one of the most cautious installations I have ever witnessed. I have never seen so much blue tape, fender covers, hefty bags, cardboard, etc, in any one compartment. ;)
mopardude318
Well-Known Member
wow dude!!! this is one crazy extreme build!!!!!
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