Turn Signal Relay Issue

[frumharlem]

Good morning,
I am trying to sort out an issue with my turn signal relay. I bought both the normal mechanical and the Heavy Duty one (Electric and for LED). I have both incandescent and LED 1157 bulbs to swap between.

If I connect the pink multi-wire V shaped connector to the relay, and use the stalk, I see the green light appear in the dash, but it is solid and so is the light outside.

However, if I take my test light, that is of course clipped to ground, and I touch the tip to the prong on the relay (I believe the X not the L .. I think is for Load to wire), I can feel the relay click like it is working. But, as soon as I remove the test light probe it stops. In my bird brain thinking, I said, "Ah-ha! it just needs to be grounded". Since the test light connects to ground. But, when I took a pigtail from the door sill and touched the relay, it sparked!

So, I am confused....

I also cannot get my brake lights to work. I think that is a bad Stop Light Switch. I get hot on both terminals of the brake switch and I am thinking that is wrong. But, as you can see, I am no electrician.

 

[67Dart273]

It is not a relay it is a "flasher," and I don't care what some people call them.

They DO NOT have or need or should have a ground.

They are a SERIES device, that is, from battery.........to flasher.........through TS switch.....to bulb(s).......and bulb ground

What I'd do.........

You say you can swap bulbs. Do so. make CERTAIN bulbs are PROPERLY working on each side, and front rear. You can BYPASS the flasher with a jumper wire, into the two flasher connector terminals. This will feed full time power from the TS switch to the bulbs. Check CAREFULLY that only one filament of the two in the bulbs is lighting, and that the BIG filament is actually the one lighting.

This can get tricky because several simple problems can trick you up, such as........

1...Rusty damaged socket shell allowing bulb to fit with wrong contact orientation
2...Wrong type bulb
3...Worn/ damaged pigtail not making proper contact
4...lamp shell not grounding or not grounding well
5...Bulb with internal problems such as intermittent filament or cross--connection between filaments

Most/ all flashers depend on LOAD CURRENT (the bulbs) to operate. This in essence is the whole problem with LEDs, they draw very little current. Frankly I have not messed much with LED TS lamps but the key is certainly "the flasher" type and compatability.

 

[frumharlem]

It is not a relay it is a "flasher," and I don't care what some people call them.

They DO NOT have or need or should have a ground.

They are a SERIES device, that is, from battery.........to flasher.........through TS switch.....to bulb(s).......and bulb ground

What I'd do.........

You say you can swap bulbs. Do so. make CERTAIN bulbs are PROPERLY working on each side, and front rear. You can BYPASS the flasher with a jumper wire, into the two flasher connector terminals. This will feed full time power from the TS switch to the bulbs. Check CAREFULLY that only one filament of the two in the bulbs is lighting, and that the BIG filament is actually the one lighting.

This can get tricky because several simple problems can trick you up, such as........

1...Rusty damaged socket shell allowing bulb to fit with wrong contact orientation
2...Wrong type bulb
3...Worn/ damaged pigtail not making proper contact
4...lamp shell not grounding or not grounding well
5...Bulb with internal problems such as intermittent filament or cross--connection between filaments

Most/ all flashers depend on LOAD CURRENT (the bulbs) to operate. This in essence is the whole problem with LEDs, they draw very little current. Frankly I have not messed much with LED TS lamps but the key is certainly "the flasher" type and compatability.

I thank you for the crash course. I will no longer call them relays!
Ok, so I am stuck on stupid with the “What I would do” instructions. I need to correct my facts.

1. I have both types of 1157 bulbs and both types of FLASHERS. I bought them to try both set ups. So, I am happy if just incandescent works and I can’t use LED at all. It’s just a nice to have.

2. All the lights in all 4 corners light up. They just do not flash.

The fact that the test light activated the flasher was an indication of the if the ground does not come in till the tail light housing, what I did was just turned my test light into a turn signal bulb. so if the test bulb worked and flashed, the flasher is doing its job. I just need to get the light in the bumper to do what the test light does.
So, what does the tip of the test light introduce when you use one anywhere? Meaning what is at the tip of test light is there a battery in the light that makes power at the tip? I thought it just reacts to power in what your touch?

Lastly, could the brake light not working also be related?

 

[67Dart273]

is there a battery in the light that makes power at the tip?

I doubt you have such, but they DO exist, known commonly as a "continuity checker." So,yeh, normally a 12V test bulb needs power from the probe to the clip to light, and the battery powered ones you could just test the light itself my connecting the clip to the probe, and it should light.

 

[67Dart273]

2. All the lights in all 4 corners light up. They just do not flash.

First thing I'd do is access one or two lamps that are easy to get to. Clip your test lamp to a good ground, like the trunk floor latch, and probe the metal socket shell. You should NOT get a light. If you do, it shows the shell is ungrounded. HOW can they light in that case? The TS bulbs and power go in series through the park/ tail filaments and to ground

If the shells are grounded, I'm not sure of an answer. Is the flasher a direct 2 pin plug in replacement? Any chance it could be wired backwards that is power going to the lamp terminal?

Is this a special flasher you've bought and if so, post a link and or any documentation with it?

Flashers "used to be" simple. They needed a couple of lamps for a load, and they were wired in series with the load. They were a thermal activated device. The current from the load of the lamps heated up a little unit in the flasher, and heated a bi-metal strip. Same as used in home heating thermostats. They bend when they heat up due to the different expansion rates of the two metals used. So they bend, and break contact, and cool off and remake contact........and all over again

 

[67Dart273]

The fact that the test light activated the flasher was an indication of the if the ground does not come in till the tail light housing, what I did was just turned my test light into a turn signal bulb. so if the test bulb worked and flashed, the flasher is doing its job. I just need to get the light in the bumper to do what the test light does.


Lastly, could the brake light not working also be related?

Sounds like likely so. The brake light switched power goes INTO the TS switch on the white wire. You can check there and see if you are getting power to the TS switch with the pedal depressed. if something is not grounded "back there" that would make sense.

 

[cudamark]

I think I'd start by diagnosing the brake lights. In most early Mopars, the brake light filament in the bulb (1034's or 1157's) is the same one as the turn signal uses. The turn signal switch just cancels out one of the stop lights depending on which way you move the lever. The turn signal circuit depends on load for the flasher to work. Either use all incandescent and the stock flasher, or, the LED version with the LED bulbs. I wouldn't try to mix and match.

 

[frumharlem]

I think I'd start by diagnosing the brake lights. In most early Mopars, the brake light filament in the bulb (1034's or 1157's) is the same one as the turn signal uses. The turn signal switch just cancels out one of the stop lights depending on which way you move the lever. The turn signal circuit depends on load for the flasher to work. Either use all incandescent and the stock flasher, or, the LED version with the LED bulbs. I wouldn't try to mix and match.

Thank you for the insight.
I will test the Socket in the trunk tomorrow. I looked today in the trunk floor and the wall along the bumper. I could not find any ground wire bolted to the trunk pan. The wire diagram shows a Ground Wire ring terminal on the read defroster motor, but I could not find that.
I only see the bundle of the Violet, Dark Green and Black. The Black seems to be the series carrier wire.
I am not sure what the upside-down Xmas Tree symbols are that are under each rear bulb, in the diagram.

I was going to take a short pig tail wire and attach one to the silver metal light housing and the other to the trunk pan, to make an extra ground connection.

I still cannot figure out how to remove the stop Light Switch, to replace that part. I have turned the cylinder of the switch, but it does not pull out.

 

[cudamark]

The "upside down Xmas tree" symbol is a ground symbol. The 1034/1157 bulbs ground through their housing and then through the socket and metal taillight housing. Plastic housings have an extra ground strap connection. Just test the brake light switch in place. It's just a 12V power wire in, and a load wire out. One terminal should have power all the time, and the other will have power when you push the brake pedal down and the switch closes. Those switches can go bad, but, it's not real common. They're a pretty simple part.

 

[67Dart273]

The 1034/1157 bulbs ground through their housing and then through the socket and metal taillight housing.

........And this has always been suspect. OP can you solder? Clean up the lamp shells and solder a pigtail ground on the socket shell, and bolt the other one to say, the trunk latch bolt. When I was young......and I HAD a 63 Chev SS for awhile......part of the lamps were IN THE TRUNK LID. You used to see a LOT of those 63--66 or so Cheves with improperly or non working lights back there

This is me soon after buying the 63 on leave up here in the N end of Idaho. This photo is on Treasure Island, CA, near the amateur radio club in the spring of '70. I had stopped by on the way to San Diego, NAS Miramar, where I'd be for 4 years. (6 years total, ET-R2, maintained GCA RADAR) Here, I'm about 22

At the RADAR shop at Miramar. I did not have it long, traded it and some cash for a 69 383 RR 4 speed. The Miramar tower (the old one not there today) is just out of sight at far right. This photo is looking sort of E or NE. None of our shop is there, the jarheads have poured concrete for more choppers. The tall object at far right on the horizon is the "civilian" FAA long range RADAR. I don't remember the technical term, Miramar had civilian controllers as well as Navy, the civvies handled area traffic. It was the center coming down from LA, whatever that was called.At one time San Diego was working on a deal to move and take over Miramar for the local airport. It would have (then) been a great location.

 

[frumharlem]

The "upside down Xmas tree" symbol is a ground symbol. The 1034/1157 bulbs ground through their housing and then through the socket and metal taillight housing. Plastic housings have an extra ground strap connection. Just test the brake light switch in place. It's just a 12V power wire in, and a load wire out. One terminal should have power all the time, and the other will have power when you push the brake pedal down and the switch closes. Those switches can go bad, but, it's not real common. They're a pretty simple part.

Awesome! This is what I needed to confirm. Mine are metal, so I should not see a ring terminal ground wire anywhere. However, there may be a ground issue, that I can resolve, by soldering a tire to the back of the light housing and screwing to the trunk floor.

 

[cudamark]

The easy way to test for a ground issue, is to use a jumper wire with an alligator clip on each end..... clip one end on the bulb housing, the other clipped to a good ground. Then test the light(s) again.