Turn signal troubles

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manderson1356

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Eugene, OR
Early 1976 Dodge Dart base sedan,
I'll start this off with this, I'm looking for advice on a "do the wrong thing, the right way" sort of fix, I'm working with the combo of having a tight budget and very little electrical experience. With that said my turn signals have quit on me, bulbs are good, new flasher relay, and hazards still function. Essentially what I need to know is this, how can I, if possible, bypass the column mounted switch and use my own? I've explored all around the wiring harness and can't seem to see anything unusual, but I also know almost nothing about wiring short of simple two wire power/ground stuff. If I had the means (time/money), I would have it done right, buts that's not the case, so please don't reply telling me to do so, I'm aware of what I "should do". Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated, also a breakdown of what the wires are that go into the steering column would be grand as well.
 
Do your brake lights work ? Turn signals and brake lights are tied together in the circuit.
Many times a question will come up that my turn signals work but when I press the brake pedal only one side lights.
The question concludes the turn signal switch is the problem.You problem sound like the switch is bad too.
Your question is, can I by-pass my turn signal switch ? yes you can,,by installing a momentary switch that is spring loaded with the center "off" and left/right "on." These can be found at a auto parts store for around $10. This may help for a temporary fix. As far as telling you what/where/how to cut into to do this, the only thing you can do is to look up the wiring diagram for your car. Try mymopar.com and do a search as they have lots of information on their web.
 
By any chance did you replace your bulbs with LED?

Have you had any of the front grill off lately?




manderson1356 said:
With that said my turn signals have quit on me, bulbs are good, new flasher relay, and hazards still function
Click to expand...

"New Flasher Relay" are you aware there are 2 flasher "relays" one to the left of the steering column on the brake pedal support (Emergency flashers) and one under the radio to the left of the ash tray, tucked between the dash and the ashtray. (Turn signal flasher)

The tab that holds the mount to the ashtray assy can be seen when the ashtray is fully open.

Green points to a square hole
Red points to where the TURN SIGNAL flasher mechanism is mounted
Screenshot_20211218-065443~2.png



Another shot,
blue points to the flasher mechanism mount.
Screenshot_20211218-065803.png



The reason I asked about the grill is I had it apart to replace the fender and while I had part of the harness disconnected the turn signals were not functional. The wire that attached to the ground screw (top center) needed to be attached then the rest of the system worked.
20180310_202317.jpg



This is the pass side still attached only the front turn signal light is disconnected.

20180310_202304.jpg
 
RedFish said:
Glass bar fuses do blow behind the end caps. A simple test light at the fuse box can check them all
Click to expand...
Some fuses only have power under certain conditions like key in on position
 
Dana67Dart said:
By any chance did you replace your bulbs with LED?

Have you had any of the front grill off lately?






"New Flasher Relay" are you aware there are 2 flasher "relays" one to the left of the steering column on the brake pedal support (Emergency flashers) and one under the radio to the left of the ash tray, tucked between the dash and the ashtray. (Turn signal flasher)

The tab that holds the mount to the ashtray assy can be seen when the ashtray is fully open.

Green points to a square hole
Red points to where the TURN SIGNAL flasher mechanism is mountedView attachment 1715838541


Another shot,
blue points to the flasher mechanism mount.View attachment 1715838542


The reason I asked about the grill is I had it apart to replace the fender and while I had part of the harness disconnected the turn signals were not functional. The wire that attached to the ground screw (top center) needed to be attached then the rest of the system worked. View attachment 1715838545


This is the pass side still attached only the front turn signal light is disconnected.

View attachment 1715838544
Click to expand...

Both my flasher/hazard relays are on the drivers side above the fuse box, and I have not had the grill off lately, but I would figure if the ground wire was busted the hazard lights wouldn't flash either right?
 
On a side note, should I move away from glass fuses? I assume it would just involve replacing the ends of the wires and then finding a way to secure it all together yeah?
 
manderson1356 said:
Both my flasher/hazard relays are on the drivers side above the fuse box, and I have not had the grill off lately, but I would figure if the ground wire was busted the hazard lights wouldn't flash either right?
Click to expand...
Grounds can be tricky. The parking lights can act as a ground path. The bulbs (both front and rear) have two filaments, one small one for park/ tail and the other for stop/ turn. If the ground is open on a pair of lamps, the power goes to the turn filament, interconnects in the bulb with the tail/ park filament, and goes to ground through the remaining park/ tail lamps filaments

BEFORE you go around hacking up the wiring for "your own switch" you need to learn how to and perform some troubleshooting

WHAT YOU NEED

Wiring diagrams, if possible a factory shop manual, and some test gear. You need a couple of alligator test clip leads, a multimeter, and a 12V test lamp. Some modern test lamps are LED but I prefer an actual lamp as they draw more current and can be very useful because of this

"Follow the path." I speak on here often of the circuit "path." In doing so I am attempting to create a picture in your mind of the "road" map/ path of the electrical circuit

"The path" for the turn signals is such:

From the ignition switch to the fuse panel "fuse" and to the turn flasher. MUST have power on both terminals of the flasher. The flasher power then feeds into the turn switch. THAT is where things get complicated

WHAT GOES IN AND OUT of the turn signal switch:

IN:

Hazard flasher output goes IN to the TS switch, powered at all times
Turn flasher output goes IN to the TS switch, powered only from key switch
Switched brake light power from the brake light switch goes IN to the TS switch

OUTPUTS:

Left rear stop / tail lamp
Right rear stop/ tail lamp
Right front turn lamp
Left front turn lamp
When the switch is CENTERED, both rear turn/ brake lamps are connected together and connected to the brake light switch power SO THAT when you apply the brakes both rear lamps light. THE SWITCH ROUTES THIS

When the TS switch is turned left or right, the appropriate lamp REMAINS connected to the brake light switch and the proper one is connected to the TURN FLASHER
Also when the TS switch is activated, the appropriate FRONT lamp is connected to the flasher output

For hazard, the TS switch must be centered (to interconnect both rear lamps) and the front lamps are both connected. So the hazard flasher output, and all four lamps are interconnected. IF YOU mash the brake pedal, the hazards stop flashing and light steady.

HOW TO troubleshoot. Find the harness connector in the left front kick panel, which separates the rear harness from the instrument panel. You can probe this connector, as the tail light power and left and right rear lamps go through there

You can access the TS switch connector coming out of the column, and probe that

You need a DIAGRAM to identify wire colors to function
 
GROUNDS: Activate the turn or hazards, and with what lamps flashing that work, and with lenses removed so you can access the lamps, GROUND a test lamp at a good ground point such as the battery. STAB the probe into the lamp metal and if possible the shell of the lamp socket and look for power. If there is ANY power showing, there is a poor or no ground at that socket

POWER. Maybe the TS switch is AFU. Maybe not. Activate the turn flasher and get your notepad where you have written wire colors of the connector. Probe the connector for appropriate power. That is on left turn, probe the wire colors for left front and left rear. Confirm that you do or do not have power there. If neither, probe the connector of the flasher. Do you have power there? NO? then you have to backtrack, bad connection at the flasher connector? Bad flasher? Backtrack to the fuse. WITH THE CIRCUIT ACTIVE probe both ends of the fuse. You MUST check these circuits UNDER LOAD AKA WHILE operating to show up bad connections
 
Mickey Mouse repair and little electrical experience.......what can go wrong here.....:lol:
 
So after doing some more digging around with a test light, I determined that there was in fact an issue with the turn signal switch/cam. I replaced the cam and got the signals back for a brief moment before the cheap replacement part broke on me, and even when it was working I needed to fiddle with the lever to keep them flashing. I also discovered that my brake lights are also out, even after "fixing" the turn signals. Brake light switch is good, checked it with a test light, but when I had it all hooked up, both wires lit the test light regardless of the switch being on or off. I am unsure if the issue still is coming from the turn signal switch or if there's something else I'm missing.
 
The turn signal switch affects the brake lights too. An LED light will work fine in a test light as long as you keep track of the current flow. Most LED's only work with the current going in one direction.
 
manderson1356 said:
So after doing some more digging around with a test light, I determined that there was in fact an issue with the turn signal switch/cam. I replaced the cam and got the signals back for a brief moment before the cheap replacement part broke on me, and even when it was working I needed to fiddle with the lever to keep them flashing. I also discovered that my brake lights are also out, even after "fixing" the turn signals. Brake light switch is good, checked it with a test light, but when I had it all hooked up, both wires lit the test light regardless of the switch being on or off. I am unsure if the issue still is coming from the turn signal switch or if there's something else I'm missing.
Click to expand...
One wire at brake lamp switch should be hot at all times. That switch is open with pedal up and closed with pedal down. Pedal down both wires will be hot. That power still has to go through a good turn signal switch to get to the brake lamps. I understand turn signal switch issues in fleet vehicles like taxis in crowded cities and cancel cam alone as repair. Replacing only half the switch in the typical passenger car never made sense to me. The problem today is quality of reproductions. Cancel cams or complete switch assemblies can be junk in a box. If anyone knows where to buy a quality switch for your year model it is @slantsixdan .
 
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BRAKE LIGHTS: It is important to picture the "path" in your head, and there's yet one more issue:

The "path" (As Redfish eluded)----Power is ALWAYS to the brake light switch. With the pedal down power is now routed to the HAZARD SWITCH SECTION of the TS switch, and through the actual TS switch itself--- and it routes brake lamp power to the two signal/ brake lamp filaments

I HAVE SEEN CASES where failure in the HAZARD section of the switch will cause the brake lamps to not work even though the turn signals will. "Keep that in mind" This is an "internal" connection between the two switch parts but just be aware
 
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