Uh Oh.....!

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ramcharger

ramcharger

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Got a lifter tick on the RC's 360. I just pulled that valve cover and one valve was loose by 1 1/4 turns for the correct pre load. 1/2 a turn to zero and another 3/4 for preload and verified that the lifter did indeed bleed down that 3/4 turn so I know it's not a collapsed lifter. This was on the #6 Intake. I saw a big glob of the cam break-in grease by the pushrod hole but not by any others. I'm hoping that when I lubed the pushrod cup prior to start-up and adjustment the grease may have skewed my adjustment process. I hope.

Updates to come.
 
Here's the plan. Since I'm so freakin' paranoid now with everyone having flat tappet cam problems, I'm going to proceed inthe following manner.

The RC is having carb boil over issues in this high altitude 90-100F heat, so instead of replacing my aluminum carb spacer with a phenolic spacer, I'm just going to replace the LD4B Intake manifold with the Weiand action plus I picked up months ago from Bubba C. I will be blocking off the exhaust manifold heat passage in the process as well as scoping out the cam.

The oil is clean as can be and I've got 65 psi at 1000 rpm in neutral at 195 F so it would be hard to believe that the cam wiped a lobe, but as Clint Camshaft might say, "I know what you're thinking, I might have 16 lobes or only 15, in all the excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is 360 magnum and would blow your chevy clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do ya feel lucky punk?" LOL!

We'll I'm not a punk but I don't feel particuarly lucky either.
 
Good luck Joe. Sure hope it isn't that but I know what you mean since there has been so many cam problems in the last couple yrs. What brand is it?
 
Crane. Got the cam and lifters as set. Relatively low lift and duration due to the application.

Here's the specs:

Camshaft Specification Card
Part Number: 693941 Grind Number: H-272-2 (REPLACES HMV-272-2)
Engine Identification:
Start Yr. End Yr. Make Cyl Description
1964 Up PLYMOUTH-DODGE-CHRYSLER 8 GOOD IDLE, DAILY USAGE AND OFF ROAD, TOWING, PERFORMANCE AND FUEL EFFICIENCY, 2600-3000 CRUISE RPM, 8.75 TO 10.5 COMPRESSION RATIO ADVISED. BASIC RPM 2000-5000
Engine Size Configuration
273-360 C.I. V

Valve Setting: Intake .000 Exhaust .000 HOT

Lift: Intake @Cam 3027 @Valve 454 All Lifts are based
on zero lash and theoretical rocker arm ratios.
Exhaust @ Cam 3200 @Valve 480
Rocker Arm Ratio 1.5

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.004
Lift: Opens Closes ADV Duration
Intake 25 BTDC 67 ABDC 272 °
Exhaust 75 BBDC 29 ATDC 284 °

Spring Requirements: Triple Dual Outer Inner
Part Number 99835
Loads Closed 113 LBS @ 1.600 or 1 19/32
Open 302 LBS @ 1.140
Recommended RPM range with matching components
Minimum RPM 1800
Maximum RPM 5400
Valve Float 6000

Cam Timing: TAPPET @.050
Lift: Opens Closes Max Lift Duration
Intake 1 BTDC 35 ABDC 107 216 °
Exhaust 51 BBDC (3) BTDC 117 228 °

Runs great with the exception of the carb boil over problems but that has nothing to do with the cam. Pulls hard to about 4900 rpm but will rev higher given time. Needs more carb and manifold as it presently has a 650 double pumper and a LD4B. WTH, I got new gaskets laying around and I'll cut out the heat block offs from sheet metal.

There ain't nothing like smoking some ford/chevy pickup on the hwy entrance ramp with my full time 4wd RC on 33" tires. They just pull up next to me and stare.....lol!

BTW, thanks again for the Holley Blue pump. Solid regulated 7 psi. My Summit pump barfed with maybe 2 hours on it? I bought about 2 years ago so my return options are limited. As you know I had different plans for the Holley pump but fate interviened.
 
Yeah that's not a big cam at all but sounds like it's perfect for your application. I've noticed most of the problems with the higher velocity cams. That is neat to be able to smoke em with something they'd never think could do something like that. I used to have a 93 Dakota I bought new. It was a reg. cab short box with a 318 mag auto. Ran decent when I bought it but I found myself adding things as I went along. Nothing but external bolt on's but I got it down to 14.40's with a peg leg rearend that usually spun the first 60-70 ft. taking it easy. Loved coming up to a Z28 or Mudstain and smokin em at a light but I think the best one was the time a kid in his ricer with a 6" fart can exh pipe came up next to me and layed into it at a stop light. I didn't get into it right off cause I didn't expect he'd do that. He got about 2 cars ahead of me and I laid into it and instantly caught up to him and hit 2nd gear right when my back rt. tire was right beside his open window and left about a 5 ft. black mark. I didn't see his expression but my buddy was with me and got a good laugh cause he said the kids jaw about landed in his lap.
 
Can you put a dial indicator on #5 intake, check the lift, and compare it to #6 intake reading. It works on roller cams but I don't know how accurate it would be on a hydraulic tappet. I guess you could put a degree wheel on the nose and check how fast the cam "ramps up". A flat lobe starts loosing lift first on the climbing side of the lobe. That's a lot of work to save an intake gasket set huh? Just an idea.
 
DaveO said:
Can you put a dial indicator on #5 intake, check the lift, and compare it to #6 intake reading. It works on roller cams but I don't know how accurate it would be on a hydraulic tappet. I guess you could put a degree wheel on the nose and check how fast the cam "ramps up". A flat lobe starts loosing lift first on the climbing side of the lobe. That's a lot of work to save an intake gasket set huh? Just an idea.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea Dave, I never thought of that and thanks for your input. Like you say, I don't know how accurate it would be with hydraulic lifters (I use a solid I have laying around for degreeing the cam), but it would probably give me a good baseline.

Since I have to deal with the carb boiling over issue anyway and I think the Action Plus would be a better match for my cam, I'm just going to swap the manifold anyway. The LD4B is a good manifold but it's RPM range max's out at 5000 rpm on it's intended use (273/318 ). The cam I'm using is supposed to pull up to 5400 rpm on a 360. I think a good cam match for that intake would be more in the 210 degrees of duration or less range on a 360 with a vacuum secondary 650 up top. I had to put a open hole 1" spacer on that manifold just to get it to rev to 5000 on this application.

Good thing I'm only a few blocks away from the highway to do my testing, lol!

Fishy,

LOL! It really is fun, aint it! It would be interesting to see what this thing would do in a lighter 2WD pickup. This has a NP203 transfer case and and there is no provision for 2WD. Just full time 4WD, hi and lo (the transfer case allows slippage between the front and rear driveshafts) and 4WD lock hi and lo(front and rear driveshafts locked together, snow and dirt only).

Lower gears (3.73 or 4.10's) are in the plans for the future. As it is, it's fun as hell on the dirt and snow but kinda scary at 80+ mph, lol! The body sway is um...disconcerting when changing lanes. Fatter sway bars are availible, but I would loose some flex when off-roading. We'll see....
 
#6 is wiped, all other lobes are fine. WTF? If this was oil related, wouldn't you think all the lobes would be trashed?

cam web.JPG
 
ramcharger said:
#6 is wiped, all other lobes are fine. WTF? If this was oil related, wouldn't you think all the lobes would be trashed?
Click to expand...

Not sure on that Joe. The only ones I ever had (3 IIRC) go bad I did everything by the book and still lost a lobe anyway. Always been one lobe that has went. Never more. But that's just my exp.

Bummer to see this. Is it still under warranty? I don't know how Crane is but Comp was good to me replacing the last 2 I had go bad.

If it's not under warranty and you are just going to throw it away I'd like to have it. I'd like to do a mock up and test how much lift and duration is lost due to the bad lifter to pushrod angle. I've heard some guys say it's nearly .020 lift lost which sounds kinda high so I figure the best way to know is test one and see. I also have some 1.6 rocker arms and am going to test how much duration at .050 is gained using them compared to 1.5's. I have a big Racer Brown to test and I'd like a smaller one like yours to test to see if size makes any difference. I don't think size would but the only way to know is to test one. I also need some used standard main and cam bearings for a 360 if you run across any. Wouldn't you know before I thought about doing this test I threw some away.:banghead:
 
I'm running the Crane now in the Duster. Works well. 3.21 sure grip on stock sized wheels. Not bad, not bad.

Cleaning out all the oil passages I hope.
 
Fishy,

The cam is yours. :) I'll PM you once I get it out. Sorry, no used bearings. I threw them out too. let me know what you find in regard to pushrod angle. :)

Rumble,

In a perfect world yes, but I'm moving shortly and there is no way I could afford the time or money to break the whole engine down, clean and re-gasket. The oil looks perfect and nothing was at the bottom of the pan. The oil filter pleats have some sparkle to them, so I'm hoping that no damage will be seen when I pull the bearings. I'm also seeing 65+ psi at 1000 rpm in nuetral at 195 F, so I'm hoping I caught it in time.
 
ramcharger said:
Fishy,

The cam is yours. :) I'll PM you once I get it out. Sorry, no used bearings. I threw them out too. let me know what you find in regard to pushrod angle. :)
Click to expand...

Great. Don't be in any hurry. Just when you get it out is fine and let me know how much you need for shipping. Sure sorry to see this happen to you. Just plain sucks when they go like this for no apparent reason.

Will definitely let you know the numbers when I get done. I'm going to make good notes and take pix as I'm going along and post them here so everybody knows. It's one of those grey areas that I haven't figured out any mathematical formula for or seen anything anywhere so I figure this is the only way to know for sure.

Thanks, Tracy
 
What a bummer! I'm running the same Crane cam, but, use solid lifters. So far/so good. [273,30 over;16,000 miles] I feel for ya' brother. Looking forward to updates. Keep 'er safe........................rick
 
rick_rawker said:
What a bummer! I'm running the same Crane cam, but, use solid lifters. So far/so good. [273,30 over;16,000 miles] I feel for ya' brother. Looking forward to updates. Keep 'er safe........................rick
Click to expand...

Thanks Rick,

Pulled the cam and lifters out last night and sure enough, after closer inspection, only the #6 lobe wiped. I'll get some pics up tonight. All the rest of the lobes are absolutely perfect. I pulled the oil pump too (Nice doing this on a truck, I can drop the pan without even pulling the headers. :) )and found some minor pitting but I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to run this engine as is, at least for a while.

I've got the replacement cam from Lunati. It's a just a bit smaller then the Crane. I also have some ZDDP additive coming from Hughes. It's not here yet, but I figure I can install and degree the cam and get the manifold painted while I'm waiting.
 
ramcharger said:
Thanks Rick,

Pulled the cam and lifters out last night and sure enough, after closer inspection, only the #6 lobe wiped. I'll get some pics up tonight. All the rest of the lobes are absolutely perfect. I pulled the oil pump too (Nice doing this on a truck, I can drop the pan without even pulling the headers. :) )and found some minor pitting but I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to run this engine as is, at least for a while.

I've got the replacement cam from Lunati. It's a just a bit smaller then the Crane. I also have some ZDDP additive coming from Hughes. It's not here yet, but I figure I can install and degree the cam and get the manifold painted while I'm waiting.
Click to expand...
did you run any break in additive the first time ?? also what oil were you using?? i always run diesel oil now.. usually the rotella t, they usually have more zinc in them.. i am surprised at how well you said it ran whenever i lose a cam it starts missing and back firing...
 
I ran Valvoline VR1 at break-in and the cam was liberally slathered with the Crane cams break-in paste. I also coated the bottom of the lifters with the Crane break-in paste too. Sides of the lifters were oiled only to promote rotation on break-in. I did not run any additive as I was told by Vavloline that thier VR1 contains over 1000ppm of ZDDP.

There were absolutely no clearance issues in the valvetrain as all parameters including spring installed height, valve guide to retainer clearance and coil bind clearance were checked and double checked.

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHH! I'm 42 and built my first V-8 when I was 17 and this is the first time I've lost a lobe.

BTW, I caught it pretty early but the engine sounded very healthy and reved to 5500 RPM no problem. I did notice a slight uneveness to the idle from the exhaust on the passenger side, but didn't think much of it until after a power run to check jetting and heard the telltale tick starting up.
 
Well, I was getting ready to put the cam in and was washing it off with solvent as I would to any cam. The "preservitive" or whatever Lunati smears their cams with prior to shipping has appeared to have dried/baked on and will not come off. Anyone ever seen this before? I'm pretty damn pissed right now.

camweb1.jpg

camweb3.jpg

camweb2.jpg


Nothing will remove it including carb cleaner, brake cleaner, acetone or ketone. WTF! It's on every single lobe too.
 
Never seen that before. That sucks. Hopefully Georges method will work cause I don't know anything else that you haven't already tried.
 
Thanks for the suggestion George, but that doesn't work either. This stuff is like baked on. Nothing so far seems to budge it.
 
Oven cleaner just crossed my mind but I dont want to use anything that will eat the cam. Then I'll have no chance of returning it.
 
I would sure enough return it if this is something no one has ever seen before.
I sure as heck have not.:stop:
Some sh! head pulled your cam out and snagged an old peace and put it in your box.
Give them a call and have there rep look at these pictures Monday.:cheers:
And find out who sent it out.:cheers:

man like you have said before bro!! you can't catch a brake.:clock:
Sorry to here that first cam laid down on ya.:angry7:
 
Mike is right. Call the company and send them some pics via email. Someone may have done the old switcharoo with the real cam. Sounds like your using the same oil as i do. I called Valvoline and talked to their tech and he said the oil was all i needed forever. That's what i run full time.
 
We had a guy at Napa that worked in the shop doing drive shaft work.
Needles to say it took about four days to figure out what and who stole from the man feeding his children.:angry7:

Switched out a crank and he was gone. It douse happen.:angry7:
 
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