Valvoline VR-1 vs. Lucas Hot Rod oil

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If you read the paper referenced it talks about the percent of viscosity modifiers
The new natural gas made type Iv and V base stocks do not need as much or any modifiers
so they shear down less or none- one way they get the 20,000 mile spec
they have an inherent EP quality and do not require as much additives like the Mobile 1 Dexron 2 Corvette formula what is it EPS or something like that
I do know it works in both the newer Volkswagon gas and diesel engines . They are designed to make catalysts last longer and for particulate filters (so less ash and who wants ash anyway)
I look for a oil speced for a german car without roller lifters
so which of TODAY's Mobil ones work?
That said I prefer to have the blender blend the oil or mix the additive with the oil before putting it in the engine else I find it in the pan or in the filter
 
Mattax said:
The current generation of T4 diesel oils would be OK for a car with stock spring pressures with or without cat.

2018 Rotella T4 15W-40 PETROLEUM QUALITY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA TEST PROGRAM

2017 Rotella T4 10W-30 Rotella t4 10w30

Zddp now seems to be just under 1000 ppm for most.
Click to expand...
I shoudl have been more explicit: I was figuring the T4 10W30, which I think is what Dartfreak is heading for. That is showing 1100 ppm zinc in your links. Tnx.

He still needs to only add half a bottle of the additive if it is like most additives. Dartfreak, what additive do you have?
 
So Mattax you did your home on oil for sure. so what oil do you recommend for these type of motors.
All motors are pump gas
mostly stock 340 motor hydraulic cam around .500
340 flat tapped cam .528
340 hydraulic cam .558
340 stroked 379 crank solid rollor cam .585
440 stock motor
440 flat taped cam .590
426 hemi stroke to 604 solid rollor cam .617
These are mostly street cars that go to the track once or twice a year.
Would you recommend the same oil for all?
 
davescuda said:
So Mattax you did your home on oil for sure. so what oil do you recommend for these type of motors.
All motors are pump gas
mostly stock 340 motor hydraulic cam around .500
340 flat tapped cam .528
340 hydraulic cam .558
340 stroked 379 crank solid rollor cam .585
440 stock motor
440 flat taped cam .590
426 hemi stroke to 604 solid rollor cam .617
These are mostly street cars that go to the track once or twice a year.
Would you recommend the same oil for all?
Click to expand...

"I" would run Lucas 10/30 Hot Rod oil in all of them and not blink.
 
davescuda said:
So Mattax you did your home on oil for sure. so what oil do you recommend for these type of motors.
All motors are pump gas
mostly stock 340 motor hydraulic cam around .500
340 flat tapped cam .528
340 hydraulic cam .558
340 stroked 379 crank solid rollor cam .585
440 stock motor
440 flat taped cam .590
426 hemi stroke to 604 solid rollor cam .617
These are mostly street cars that go to the track once or twice a year.
Would you recommend the same oil for all?
Click to expand...

Hey Dave.....Can I be the dude who drives your cars to keep them from sitting too long?
 
nm9stheham said:
I shoudl have been more explicit: I was figuring the T4 10W30, which I think is what Dartfreak is heading for. That is showing 1100 ppm zinc in your links. Tnx.

He still needs to only add half a bottle of the additive if it is like most additives. Dartfreak, what additive do you have?
Click to expand...
It's the lucas oil break in additive. It's what the machinist recommended he is gonna sell me a bottle when I pick up the block.
Engine Break-In Oil Additive - TB Zinc Plus
 
And yall be careful. There are a lot of zinc additives on the market that don't contain zinc. They sell one at O'Reilly that says Zinc Additive on the front, but you flip it over and it says "Contains no zinc or phosphorus". So make sure you find out that whatever you're using really has both those ingredients.
 
nm9stheham said:
Rotella is still at 1200 PPM ZDDP; the Cx oils did not drop the levels as much as the gas engine oils (Sx oils). Dartfreak if you are starting with 1200 PPM ZDDP in the Rotella, then I would only pu in 1/2 the bottle of additive. The concentrations of ZDDP in the additive solutions is typically up in the 5000 to 9000 ppm so you don't need much to boost that 1200 PPM too 1500-1600 PPM. (I am not sure where your 1400 PPM number for the additive is coming from....??)

The 10W30 is good to get the most possible oil flow. I think less about pressure than about flow during break-in.... the engine is not loaded in that 20-30 minutes, and even if you go out a drive it some, just keep the pressures reasonable and vary the loading.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure where I got that either lol I know I saw it somewhere tho. This is from Lucas oil website tho it says the ppm in the zinc plus break in is 43000! Is that right?

Screenshot_20200430-125430_Drive.jpg
 
I believe bearing clearance comes in to play.
tighter clearance, thiner the oil
loser clearance, thicker the oil
 
RustyRatRod said:
And yall be careful. There are a lot of zinc additives on the market that don't contain zinc. They sell one at O'Reilly that says Zinc Additive on the front, but you flip it over and it says "Contains no zinc or phosphorus". So make sure you find out that whatever you're using really has both those ingredients.
Click to expand...
What the hell is the purpose of that?
 
I'm guessing 43000 is the total if you use only that? Because it has a mixture ratio there with it.
 
If you are using an additive, you have to make sure it mixes with your oil you are using. Not all mix well.
 
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davescuda said:
What about bearing clearance? 10/30 would be around what clearance?
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Dave,
There's been some guidelines posted by guys who know engine work. I agree the clearances and running temperature seem to be the key factors in picking the weight (SAE grade for those who like to be technical). Let me see if I can find the posts, I think they were at Moparts or Speedtalk.
here's one - Oil Viscosity vs Bearing Clearance
But its hard to go wrong with a 10W-30 in an engine that's not worn or purposely built loose.

I've been using Brad Penn in my 340 but the lift is only .503 or so. It seems to be a quality base stock and a good zddp antiwear package. Since the engine runs a little on the cold side, and at autocrosses there's little opportunity to get the engine up to temp, npomrally use 5W-30 or 0W-30. The one time I took it to NJMP I brought some 10W-40 in case the oil temps started running much hotter than normal.
 
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The reason I was digging into the Rotella's was the fact they changed the formulation about the same time I was putting a new (rebuilt) engine in my jeep. The old engine was very worn and was getting a regular diet of T6 5W-40 the last few years it was running. For the rebuilt engine I wanted a non-synthetic with moderate Zddp. Plain jane stock cam engine. Ended up going with Ford's 10W-30 Diesel. Another few oil changes it will probably get something else, prob a 5W-30 to help in the winter and short trips.
 
davescuda said:
What about bearing clearance? 10/30 would be around what clearance?
Click to expand...

I don't understand the question. The bearing clearance is set in stone. The oil you run doesn't change that.
 
davescuda said:
So Mattax you did your home on oil for sure. so what oil do you recommend for these type of motors.
All motors are pump gas
mostly stock 340 motor hydraulic cam around .500
340 flat tapped cam .528
340 hydraulic cam .558
340 stroked 379 crank solid rollor cam .585
440 stock motor
440 flat taped cam .590
426 hemi stroke to 604 solid rollor cam .617
These are mostly street cars that go to the track once or twice a year.
Would you recommend the same oil for all?
Click to expand...
Look up Shaeffers racing line of oils! It is designed to run in alcohol motors so its fairly stout motor oil! I nust bought a case of 12 for around $92 or $93 shipped! Contact Don "sully" Sullivan he is the rep that sold it to me. Stand up dude he will take care of you. His cell # is 219-484-7418. This product is proven!! He will provide you the technical data sheet of the contents of oil. As a matter of fact he encouraged to spread the word!! Another contact is his e-mail at thesullys@myfrontiermail.com
Go ahead take advantage if this great product you'll be glad you did!! Not paid by him just want to share this great product at a great price!!
 
IF bearing clearance is set in stone then run the second number for that clearance
if a new build you can set the clearance and match the oil
No reason to run 5W or 10W or 15W or 20W any more
run 0W - whatever
 
Wyrmrider said:
IF bearing clearance is set in stone then run the second number for that clearance
if a new build you can set the clearance and match the oil
No reason to run 5W or 10W or 15W or 20W any more
run 0W - whatever
Click to expand...

I'd Never run anything that light. Not even in the 96 Neon or the 2018 Charger R/T.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I don't understand the question. The bearing clearance is set in stone. The oil you run doesn't change that.
Click to expand...
If you have a motor with tight bearing clearance. I don't think you want to run thicker oil like 20w50
I was just wounding the 10w30 oil. What clearance your bearing should be?
I see people set up motors from .0015 to .0030. Just wondering if you are on the tight side or if you are the loser side of clearance does the weight of the oil matter?
 
The W he's talking about are all multi-grades.
The W spec brings the viscosity closer to the desired range at both higher and lower operating temperatures.
The disadvantages were mostly in how the manufacturing of that impacted other things. That's much less the case these days in good quality oils made from the base stocks he mentioned. Just watch the Kinematic viscosity getting too low on some of the multigrades, especially for racing. Widman covers that in his most recent revision. One advantage of buying a 15W-40 or 20W-40 was/is those minimum specs are higher in those grades (and the 20W-50 too). But nowadays all the reputable manufacturers have specs we can ask for, or we can send samples out for testing.
So we can find 10W-30 that will hold up in the same way at high temperatures, perssures and shears etc.
 
I believe most of my motors are 0020 to .0025 I have to double check paper work
 
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