What do you think of this stroker combo?!?

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BrianT

BrianT

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I found this on Craigslist last night and am waiting to hear back from the seller. He says it's internal balance but doesn't say whether it's a cast or forged crank. Also trying to figure out what KB piston he used so that I can figure compression.

1977 Dodge 360 smallblock bored .040" oversize.

All new rings, freeze plugs bearings.

Hughes Engines stroker kit:
Internally balanced.
4.04" Keith Black pistons.
4.00" stoker crank.
Eagle crank and rods.
ARP rod bolts.

Hughes Engines solid lifter camshaft
Intake .543" with 242 duration @ .050"
Exhaust .563" with 248 duration @ .050"
106 degree lobe separation angle

It's a short block only and he's asking $2k for it. I am going to try and look at this after work today. Wanted to know what your thoughts on it and what kind of questions I should have for the seller? Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!!!
 
1976 and newer 360 blocks do not have the same thick bore castings as the 1975 and older 360 blocks do. If this is going to be just a race engine then you might be ok but if it is for the street which i assume it is then you might have a problem with it overheating in slow traffic. Been there done that.
Norm
 
Look it over good, make sure its been stored well, not just sitting in some dusty garage uncovered, Its a good deal if all checks out, ask for receipts. If he is asking 2K, bring cash & maybe you can get it alittle cheaper, like say 1800.00.
 
It's an assembled short block that's never been fired. Pics look pretty good. I would have to tear it all back apart to double check everything.
 
fastfish1967 said:
1976 and newer 360 blocks do not have the same thick bore castings as the 1975 and older 360 blocks do. If this is going to be just a race engine then you might be ok but if it is for the street which i assume it is then you might have a problem with it overheating in slow traffic. Been there done that.
Norm
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You may have had a block with thin bores, but it has nothing to do with the casting year of the block. All year blocks of all displacements suffer from poor casting quality in terms of core shift. This is proven fact that makes all the "thickwall" stories just that. Stories. The correct approach is to have any block sonic tested, and if this is a bare block or shortblock it can be done easilly enough.
In terms of this exact build, this is a low rpm engine judging by the parts. Cast crank, and hyper pistons. I wouldn't use the Eagle cast crank for anything serious and I'd never use hypers for a 4" stroke.
 
moper said:
You may have had a block with thin bores, but it has nothing to do with the casting year of the block. All year blocks of all displacements suffer from poor casting quality in terms of core shift. This is proven fact that makes all the "thickwall" stories just that. Stories. The correct approach is to have any block sonic tested, and if this is a bare block or shortblock it can be done easilly enough.
In terms of this exact build, this is a low rpm engine judging by the parts. Cast crank, and hyper pistons. I wouldn't use the Eagle cast crank for anything serious and I'd never use hypers for a 4" stroke.
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you do know that fastfish1967 is correct in the fact that 1975 and older 360 blocks have thicker cylinder walls...other then that your right all years suffer from core shift.
 
moper said:
Cast crank, and hyper pistons. I wouldn't use the Eagle cast crank for anything serious and I'd never use hypers for a 4" stroke.
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This is what I was concerned about. I have been planning a forged bottom end, until this deal came along. The ad doesn't say anywhere that the crank or pistons are cast. That's why I was wanting to speak to the seller personally, so that I could gain additional info.

I'm not going to get into the thicker block argument and would appreciate it if you guys would take it to PM and not ruin my thread.
 
I'm lost. What does it have anything to do with that the pistons need to be forged with a stroker? If they are good quality castings and the ring end gaps are right, you shouldn't have any problem. Just don't run it lean. Personally, I wouldn't buy the thing. I am pretty positive I could put one together cheaper than that with the exact parts I wanted. But if you think it's a good deal for you, then go for it.
 
StrokerScamp said:
.Personally, I wouldn't buy the thing. I am pretty positive I could put one together cheaper than that with the exact parts I wanted. But if you think it's a good deal for you, then go for it.
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The Hughes forged kits are almost $1800. I can't buy wholesale, if you can, good for you. How much do you think a machine shop would charge for the machine work and to assemble a short block?
 
sorry brian no intention of ruining your thread when others read it they need to get good info.OUT
 
If it has a steel crank and H-beams I would go for it (good deal). If it is cast crank with their SIR rods, I would pass(not so good deal). Just my 2 cents.
 
Here is the response from the seller...

Hello, yes, the kit I used is from Hughes Engines (www.hughesengines.com). The pistions are Keith Black hypereutectic, 9.7:1 compression with 63cc heads, or 10.5:1 compression with 58cc heads. The crank and rods are cast. The machine work on the block was done by Built Right Engines in Parkville, MO. And the rotating assembly was balanced by Hughes Engines. Any more questions? Feel free to ask! Thanks, Joel

Guess that means I'm out. I'm not interested in running Eagle cast products of any type.
 
the wall said:
you do know that fastfish1967 is correct in the fact that 1975 and older 360 blocks have thicker cylinder walls...other then that your right all years suffer from core shift.
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It's nice you agree with him. I'm aware they were supposed to. Just like the early '71 360s that supposedly had the 340 bore cores. It is a fact the quality of iron was changed, which was really why the casting cores were changed. But, I also own a good sonic tester and all those with the exception of the iron quality are entirely false due to poor casting quality. You're right, they were supposed to be. But reality is they cannot be considered on that factor alone. You have to measure each bore, in each block if you really want to know, as opposed to believe.
 
StrokerScamp said:
I'm lost. What does it have anything to do with that the pistons need to be forged with a stroker? If they are good quality castings and the ring end gaps are right, you shouldn't have any problem. Just don't run it lean. Personally, I wouldn't buy the thing. I am pretty positive I could put one together cheaper than that with the exact parts I wanted. But if you think it's a good deal for you, then go for it.
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Stroker - When you start playing with stroke you have to consider maximum piston speeds. These are averaged to coem up with a mean (average) piston speed, and the stroke and rod length are the variables. The 4" stroke is about 21% longer, but uses the same length rod. That means the piston is accelerated and decelerated a lot faster to cover the longer distance in the same number of crank degrees. Hypers are great pistons. I recommend them and use them a lot myself. But once the expected rpm climbs past about 6K rpm, the stresses on the pin areas of those pistosn begins to hit the maximum safe speeds of the material. Rev them too high, and they will pull apart. There is no set rpm point... It all depends on a few things, but I build mine to stay well within the safety zone, thus any 4" stroked engine gets forged pistons. I have run the Eagle casts before, and one of the two makes a sold 450+hp. But they are not racey parts.
 
moper said:
Stroker - When you start playing with stroke you have to consider maximum piston speeds. These are averaged to coem up with a mean (average) piston speed, and the stroke and rod length are the variables. The 4" stroke is about 21% longer, but uses the same length rod. That means the piston is accelerated and decelerated a lot faster to cover the longer distance in the same number of crank degrees. Hypers are great pistons. I recommend them and use them a lot myself. But once the expected rpm climbs past about 6K rpm, the stresses on the pin areas of those pistosn begins to hit the maximum safe speeds of the material. Rev them too high, and they will pull apart. There is no set rpm point... It all depends on a few things, but I build mine to stay well within the safety zone, thus any 4" stroked engine gets forged pistons. I have run the Eagle casts before, and one of the two makes a sold 450+hp. But they are not racey parts.
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Its not so much rpm but piston speeds. Strokers increase piston speeds. Plus stokers require shorter skirt pistons!

With a 3.31 stroke piston speed @ 6,000 rpm is 3,310 feet pre min. With a 4 inch stroke @ 6,000 rpm piston speed is 4,000 feet pre min. Even at only 5,000 rpm with a 4 inch stroke its over 3,300 FPM.

Now that said, Muscle Motors in Michigan told me the hyper pistons would be OK up to 6,500 rpm with a 4 inch stroke. Ah I did the math and seen 4,300 FPM, that would be a stock stroke 340 spinning at 7,800 rpm.

I ended up with a 340 with kb hypers and a stock stroke 340, am very happy I got no stroker in my engine bay. Now I can beat on the engine hard and still live to see another day
 
dodge freak said:
What is it with folks who start a thread think they own the thread?
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Because I started this thread wanting to know what everyone thought of the short block I was thinking about buying. It could have quickly turned into a pissing match about what year blocks are good or bad. If you want to argue, go start your own thread and leave mine alone.
 
412 Stroker said:
Moper I hope you never shutup... you and Strokerscamp are mountains of excellent info!!!
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X2 never shut up it makes me think about what i like to think about mopar if you guys are right or wrong keep jacking the typing jaw
 
moper said:
Sorry. I'll shut up.
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My comment wasn't directed at you. I respect and value your opinions and comments.

dodge freak said:
the block is half the package. If some years are better than others and you have no engine, why not try to score a better year block?
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I have a 73 short block waiting to be disassembled. I just thought that if the CL ad was for forged parts, it would be a good deal and save me some money that could be spent elsewhere on my build.
 
When you start a thread on a public forum you are asking the the ENTIRE FORUM for their opinion.
So I under stand this question has to do with a 410 '77 short block based-cast crank/hypers....well the question wasnt limited to the block or the rings, at least it didnt read that way...

The blocks changed in '74 casting 'cylinder core thickness aside' the thrust bearing got bigger/taller.

I have a '77 block with cast 4'' crank and hyper pistons, no issue with the crank/pistons.

I dont like eagle rods and the crank at around the 500 mark ...but if you not gonna buzz it 'u cant really, ur cam is tiny' then run it.
 
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