who has the fastest 318 ?! ( OUT ) 410 stroker ( IN! )

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j par

j par

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I was actually dead set on the 318 rebuild! I researched it for months now parts and all that stuff. But as suggested I took a small look at the 360. of course I looked at stroking the 318 as a way of getting more power out of it which a lot of people on this forum balked at saying that it would not be a 318 anymore. But as many others said it's my hobby my money? with that said, I compared the 318 stroker to the 360 stroker and the 360 was cheaper to do even having to buy the block! And some of you might say now you need a new harmonic balancer and a new flywheel definitely I will have to get a new oil pan. But now when using the scat crank which is internally balanced I can use my 318 stuff except again for the oil pan. Now here's the breakdown, the crank is the same price, the rods are the same price but it boils down to the pistons that are $200 more for the 318 and only $150 at the machine shop to buy a 360 block. now if I can get an oil pan for under $50 I will be saving money! I'm sure I'll find a couple more small things on the way but as far as the motor I'll be light years ahead.View attachment 20141107_083924.jpgoh boy! Oh boy! !OH BOY! !!:burnout:
 
It all depends on what you actually want.I stroked my 318 because my car is a factory 318 car and my now 390 is a 318/1968 block. It makes plenty of power and I can say it's the original 68/318 block! If you want 18 CI more go for the 360..Just my 2 cents..
 
CUDACOX said:
It all depends on actually want.I stroked my 318 because my car is a factory 318 car and my now 390 is a 318/1968 block. It makes plenty of power and I can say it's the original 68/318 block! If you want 18 CI more go for the 360..Just my 2 cents..
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My 73 duster is a slant 6 a/c car with a 68 barracuda v8 K - frame, 69 4 speed, 88 Dakota rearend,
05 magnum wheels (street) skinnys&slicks (strip), van low back buckets, 71 to 74 B body non console pistol grip shifter. The 318 is a police pursuit diplomat 84. The 360 is a 86 block .40 over giving me 20 more CI's
410.
I can say nothing matches! LOL
 
so here's my question? If I use my old cam which wasn't very old purple performance hydraulic 264 duration: 484 lift with my stock 596 heads. With all this restriction will I see much of a performance jump with all the new bottom end and I am using the 10.8 to 1 flat top forged. Still a dual quad tunnel ram and headers. Reason for that is I've spent everything on the bottom end and will have to wait till next year for a good top end. (Will fresh up heads a little)???
 
10.8 to 1 is too much compression especially with iron heads for 91 octane pump gas.

Is that 264 duration at 0.050 or advertised? Which MP cam is that. Still I think that compression is pushing it.
 
good deal, glad you went with the 360. i would personally put the .484 cam in the round circular file...and try to get something with a little substance. Are you putting a 4 inch arm in this 360?
 
autoxcuda said:
10.8 to 1 is too much compression especially with iron heads for 91 octane pump gas.

Is that 264 duration at 0.050 or advertised? Which MP cam is that. Still I think that compression is pushing it.
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depending on the car it might be good. My **** box used to have a 10:75:1 418 with j heads and a [email protected] cam. locked out 34 degrees, all good!
 
nevermind, didnt realize the advertised vs. .050 numbers question ahead of mine.
 
autoxcuda said:
10.8 to 1 is too much compression especially with iron heads for 91 octane pump gas.

Is that 264 duration at 0.050 or advertised? Which MP cam is that. Still I think that compression is pushing it.
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Oh yeah, I was back and forth between the 9.3 to 1 dished and the 10.8 to 1 flat top. And I knew that part of the discussion was having to use at least a mix of race fuel.
 
cj391 said:
good deal, glad you went with the 360. i would personally put the .484 cam in the round circular file...and try to get something with a little substance. Are you putting a 4 inch arm in this 360?
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Yes, the 4 in. Arm is making the 410 with a .40 over bore.
 
Here's another question? Do I need a deap oil pan? Am I going to run out of oil by the end of the track?
more stuff? ! :banghead:
 
Be aware, my MP cast crank cost $500 to internally balance with mallory metal. If I did it over I would go forged.

Also if you use ARP main studs and and an HV pump you will need to use one bolt to clear the pump.

I am running a stock pan with homemade baffles. Be sure you use a matching set (pan-pickup), mine is an oddball pan and I played hell finding a pickup to fit it.

Just a few things I found out the hard way building my 410.

If it was me I would use the 10.8 pistons if you think you might go to aluminum heads and run a thicker headgasket to get compression down to 9.5 with iron heads.It's easier to lower compression than it is to raise it later...head gaskets only come so thin.
 
KnuckleDuster said:
Be aware, my MP cast crank cost $500 to internally balance with mallory metal. If I did it over I would go forged.

Also if you use ARP main studs and and an HV pump you will need to use one bolt to clear the pump.

I am running a stock pan with homemade baffles. Be sure you use a matching set (pan-pickup), mine is an oddball pan and I played hell finding a pickup to fit it.

Just a few things I found out the hard way building my 410.

If it was me I would use the 10.8 pistons if you think you might go to aluminum heads and run a thicker headgasket to get compression down to 9.5 with iron heads.It's easier to lower compression than it is to raise it later...head gaskets only come so thin.
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I have a windage tray from the 318 I'll see if that will work with the stroker? I am probably going to order the kit that I seen online it has a car oil pan the pickup and the dipstick for like a little under 80 bucks not bad. But I'm really interested when you said something about the high volume oil pump needing one bolt or something like that I'm curious see what you're talking about? And I did push a little thanks button for what you've given me so far I appreciate it:prayer:. I also AM committed to the cast crank but I am going to hopefully get the assembly from scat in the next few days and take it down to the machine shop and I'm going to have them balance it all up.
 
One stud on the main cap will not clear the pump. If you are going with studs you will need 1 bolt for that cap before you get your block line honed. If you are using bolts,it doesn't apply.

Good luck with your crank, I got a deal on mine, or so I thought before I had to pay the bill to balance it. Hopefully yours won't need as much mallory...the slugs are expensive.
 
KnuckleDuster said:
One stud the main cap will not clear the pump. If you are going with studs you will need 1 bolt for that cap before you get your block line honed. If you are using bolts,it doesn't apply.

Good luck with your crank, I got a deal on mine, or so I thought before I had to pay the bill to balance it. Hopefully yours won't need as much mallory...the slugs are expensive.
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I'm pretty sure I'm going to use bolts. after a lot of research I found the scat crank $377(cast) to have a better reputation then the eagle. The scat I-beam Conecting rods clear for the stroker $322-344. So I was at $700 or so for that. Jegs has the stroker kit for $1,025 ! That means about $325 for icon forged flat tops ! Jegs called scat and got the .40 overs for no extra charge. I think Hughes wants like $585 or more for the same pistons plus shipping!
 
I'll sell you a used Kevko pan, $75 plus shipping if you are interested pm me. I don't have a 360 anymore. They have baffles, trap doors and a crank scraper.
 
j par said:
Here's another question? Do I need a deap oil pan? Am I going to run out of oil by the end of the track?
more stuff? ! :banghead:
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Not for a street strip deal. But depends on what ET's you are expecting out of your chassis. Deep pan will give you some extra HP. But they can be a pain on the street unless the front end it raised up.

A slightly bigger pan and some baffles will be good insurance if you are driving it on the street and the front is not jacked up. The kevko pan would be a great street strip pan. A Milodon low-pro is a little deeper.
 
QUOTE=SpareParts;1970626573]I'll sell you a used Kevko pan, $75 plus shipping if you are interested pm me. I don't have a 360 anymore. They have baffles, trap doors and a crank scraper.[/QUOTE]

I'm interested. I'm not sure how to pm? I'm wandering what shipping to portland oregon would be?
 
j par said:
QUOTE=SpareParts;1970626573]I'll sell you a used Kevko pan, $75 plus shipping if you are interested pm me. I don't have a 360 anymore. They have baffles, trap doors and a crank scraper.
Click to expand...

I'm interested. I'm not sure how to pm? I'm wandering what shipping to portland oregon would be?[/QUOTE]

Click on user name go to profile, click contact, select send private message. Easy as that
 
You can use the ARP studs on the #5 main by trimming the stud under the pump down and running a 12-point nut on it. That's what I've done on a bunch.
Also - the cam's too small IMO. Just my opinion but you would have been better served with the dished SRP piston, and setting it up to run a closed chamber head at a latwer date. Both configurations would allow for pump gas. That cam - I'd go another .100" lift and 10° at .050. Go solid flat tappet if you can. That MP 284/.484 isn;t enough to work well. It will work. but you're leaving a bunch on the table and possibly will need race fuel with 10.8 static and open chamber iron.
 
Change the title to "who has the fastest small big block". :D
 
moper said:
You can use the ARP studs on the #5 main by trimming the stud under the pump down and running a 12-point nut on it. That's what I've done on a bunch.
Also - the cam's too small IMO. Just my opinion but you would have been better served with the dished SRP piston, and setting it up to run a closed chamber head at a latwer date. Both configurations would allow for pump gas. That cam - I'd go another .100" lift and 10° at .050. Go solid flat tappet if you can. That MP 284/.484 isn;t enough to work well. It will work. but you're leaving a bunch on the table and possibly will need race fuel with 10.8 static and open chamber iron.
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Thank you for the info on the arp stud. Yes I knew when I made the decision to go high compression I would have to use at least a race gas mix if not staight. The budget! I'm nearly at the end for this season. I'd love to get the solid cam & lifters, matching rods, Eddie heads, and hugh roller rockers. I may have to make do with what I have for this year. Should be a lot better than the 318? And I know not as good as it could be. A friend had a good point- at least I'll be breaking it in easy! LOL I'm not sure how much my stock rockers and springs can take With a bigger cam, if I can afford it?
 
Sorry but I think you're making some mistakes. Bone stock springs with a 284/.484 cam is one. Adding 18% more stroke and nothing else but static compression is another. But - it's you money and your car.
Personally I'd have rather run the 318 with what you had into next year and saved to make it what it could be rather than spend now for the sake of spending, which is really what you're doing.
In order to upgrade the cam to something that will perform well, you need to do more work on the heads to fit dual springs. You should have adjustable rockers, I see no issues with running 273 rockers in the short term. You don't need Scat rods, Edelbrocks, Hughes parts (of any kind), or fancy HV oil pumps or pans to make a 408 run strong. But there are somethings it does just need: a camshaft and the supporting parts for it is a big one.
I don't see it being tremendously better than the 318 if you have everything the same but the crank, rods, and pistons as the 318. Better - certainly. But not a "night and day" better.
 
If you don't have the money to do it right the first time, how are you going to afford to build it again when all your miss-matched parts and cutting corners catch up to you? I would suggest saving up till you can do it right, rather than doing a half way job and ending up with a bunch of broken parts. JMO.

If you have a ET/horse power goal in mind, let us know...we will try to steer you toward the parts you need to achieve your goal.
 
j par said:
so here's my question? If I use my old cam which wasn't very old purple performance hydraulic 264 duration: 484 lift with my stock 596 heads. With all this restriction will I see much of a performance jump with all the new bottom end and I am using the 10.8 to 1 flat top forged. Still a dual quad tunnel ram and headers. Reason for that is I've spent everything on the bottom end and will have to wait till next year for a good top end. (Will fresh up heads a little)???
Click to expand...


No, you won't see a big performance jump. If you spend the money on good heads and a cam that matches the combo, then you WILL see a big performance jump. An engine is just an air pump, the more air you can move, the more power you can make.
 
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