Why?

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I thought there was a thread already going of some dude putting an ls in his dart?? The engine is not near as wide as the hemi and fit very nice. The one thing I could not understand was how most people on here were giving the guy crap about doing it. But last week at the track there was a guy with a 15degree headed sbc and it had a mopar intake on it. I guess the mopar intake made 40hp more. So each to there own.
 
Sadly that thread kinda fizzled. The guy has been busy with other things.
If you look at his pics though, the ls width wise looks like it fits a stock k-frame better than an la motor.

Ideally I want to get some extra cash & a spare k to see how feasible it is.
 
Surprised the torches and pitchforks haven't come out yet.
 
Surprised the torches and pitchforks haven't come out yet.

I never understand why they come out. Most of us are building "dime a dozen" mopars that in some cases would otherwise go to the junkyards.

As far as i'm concerned, i don't care what powers it, i care that it runs and keeps the owner happy.
 
I like this thread I seen the thread for another Dart being LS powered there has been a lot of people doing this swap like a drug around here in Mustangs the 4.8& 5.3's easy to get and looking at just a 5.7 Hemi here from a local yard is 2500 just for the motor those prices will soon come down I believe I would like to see one in a Dart but that's just me I love hot rodding......!
 
Can you say HEMI. its an ego thing. "Yeah it's a Hemi". It was a sales pitch from day one. And it worked.

The new hemi's are junk. Try and replace a rod and bearing set and see what you run into. They get them in at the machine shop from dealers quite often. They are not what you think they would be when it comes to longevity .

They are throwaways. See how many are still on the road 30 years from now as you see LA's with abused high miles. You won't. Rebuild them . I don't think so.
 
Can you say HEMI. its an ego thing. "Yeah it's a Hemi". It was a sales pitch from day one. And it worked.

The new hemi's are junk. Try and replace a rod and bearing set and see what you run into. They get them in at the machine shop from dealers quite often. They are not what you think they would be when it comes to longevity .

They are throwaways. See how many are still on the road 30 years from now as you see LA's with abused high miles. You won't. Rebuild them . I don't think so.

That's absurd to call them junk. Though calling them throw-away- sure, dodge never meant for them to be rebuilt, but instead replaced. That being said, my engine builder has swapped many a factory piston and rod into a blown motor with great results.
 
That's absurd to call them junk. Though calling them throw-away- sure, dodge never meant for them to be rebuilt, but instead replaced. That being said, my engine builder has swapped many a factory piston and rod into a blown motor with great results.

Exactly, piston and rod? one size fits all.
as far as junk. I would say if it walks like a duck looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Its a duck. I know what we see in the shop.



I know my Duster is not a Hemi. But I don't need a bigger hat to fit my head. I would rather have a older motor with injection and electronic upgrades in a older car. If I could afford a Hemi it would be old school Hemi.
Buts thats me and I am old
 
I like this thread I seen the thread for another Dart being LS powered there has been a lot of people doing this swap like a drug around here in Mustangs the 4.8& 5.3's easy to get and looking at just a 5.7 Hemi here from a local yard is 2500 just for the motor those prices will soon come down I believe I would like to see one in a Dart but that's just me I love hot rodding......!

we all hope they come down. The problem is that chevy has always outsold dodge. Which is why the truck LS motors are dime a dozen.
 
Exactly, piston and rod? one size fits all.
as far as junk. I would say if it walks like a duck looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Its a duck. I know what we see in the shop.



I know my Duster is not a Hemi. But I don't need a bigger hat to fit my head. I would rather have a older motor with injection and electronic upgrades in a older car. If I could afford a Hemi it would be old school Hemi.
Buts thats me and I am old

well the old 426 is also junk by how many of them ran and how long they lasted back in the day:-\"
 
I think some of the benefit of the LS swaps is the info avail for the do it yourself guys...

FABO has the MOST hemi swap info I have found. This is a freat place for info, with some really good guys providing it.

However, there are so many sites with LS swap info it is very easy to find what you need to know. There is so much more info about tuning, repinning a ecu/harness, and other details of the swap that would make it a easier or cheaper venture in my book. Like abodyjoe says the aftermarket support is huge too, look into it... I have... Yes, you can buy hemi swap parts or ecus from a few vendors, but there are literally dozens of companies selling LS swap stuff. We all know supply and demand rules, more vendors =cheaper prices and better product development/options.

The hemi swap is a good thing, I'm really happy I did it, and wouldn't change it at all. But the availability of LS parts, and knowledge online I think it is a great option for the true "poor mans Hotrod build". The "mopar or nothing" attitude is crazy, I say do it Abodyjoe...


Joe
 
Oddly, you'd think there would be more aftermarket support for the Hemi because the 5.7L Hemi comes in so many cars.

You can get a Gen III Hemi in a huge number of Vehicles: Across the entire Chrysler lineup the Hemi is probably available in more vehicles (though total sales may still be less) than the Chevy LS.

2003–present Dodge Ram
2004–2009, 2011–present Dodge Durango
2005–present Chrysler 300 300C
2005–2008 Dodge Magnum R/T
2005–present Dodge Charger R/T
2005–present Jeep Grand Cherokee
2006–2010 Jeep Commander
2007–2009 Chrysler Aspen
2009–present Dodge Challenger R/T

Chrysler has built over 2 Million Hemi's since its introduction.

A lot of people on these boards like the rarity of the Gen II hemi. But to me the ubiquity of the Gen III has made it relatively affordable. This affordability has led to a lot of aftermarket support. Is it as good as the aftermarket Chevy? No. But it is A LOT better than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

As far as putting an LS motor in my dart? No. The aftermarket support and price differential isn't that huge. If I wanted to own a Nova I'd have bought one of those.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Oddly, you'd think there would be more aftermarket support for the Hemi because the 5.7L Hemi comes in so many cars.

You can get a Gen III Hemi in a huge number of Vehicles: Across the entire Chrysler lineup the Hemi is probably available in more vehicles (though total sales may still be less) than the Chevy LS.

2003–present Dodge Ram
2004–2009, 2011–present Dodge Durango
2005–present Chrysler 300 300C
2005–2008 Dodge Magnum R/T
2005–present Dodge Charger R/T
2005–present Jeep Grand Cherokee
2006–2010 Jeep Commander
2007–2009 Chrysler Aspen
2009–present Dodge Challenger R/T

Chrysler has built over 2 Million Hemi's since its introduction.

A lot of people on these boards like the rarity of the Gen II hemi. But to me the ubiquity of the Gen III has made it relatively affordable. This affordability has led to a lot of aftermarket support. Is it as good as the aftermarket Chevy? No. But it is A LOT better than it was 20 or 30 years ago.

As far as putting an LS motor in my dart? No. The aftermarket support and price differential isn't that huge. If I wanted to own a Nova I'd have bought one of those.

Regards,

Joe Dokes

99+ chevy tahoe
99+ chevy silverado
10'+ chevy colorado
98+ corvette
98+ camaro
trailblazer
gmc sierra
envoy
(whatever the gmc equivilent to the tahoe is)
All chevy service vans
Nearly everything cadillac

Just off the top of my head here.
 
if you really want to show big nuts put a viper motor in. those are very badass.
plan on making custom headers with 5 tubes on each side though ;)

oh p.s. the t56 or whatever trannies dont hold up behind the viper engines when you push them to 1300hp lol. unless you dont mind replacing one every 6 months.
 
Joe Dokes,

I agree the support is pretty darn good, and is getting better all the time... I think the gen III is a great motor, and a good swap. I have spent hours trying to convince my brother to do one. I was just AMAZED by what knowledge and support is avail for the LS stuff when I started looking into it for my Chevy truck... It made me see why guys are doing that swap...

Joe
 
Who cares if an LS is cheaper. I like what Joe said "If I wanted to own a Nova I'd have bought one of those".

Guy asked why a Hemi vs. an LA, something I've thought about, too. Would have like to see a breakdown of the technical advantages the 5.7/6.1 have over an LA. Like: Better heads, DIS, 2 plugs per cylinder, tuned intake, crossbolted mains, better pushrod geometry, compression, piston squirters, no leaks, etc. just off the top of my head.

What if some (certainly not all) of those advantages could be added to the LA? DIS and better heads would make a difference along with some real compression. Always wondered what a car intake would have looked like for a Magnum LA if the factory had ever put one in something that wasn't supposed to tow a load, and ran hard up to 5500-6000 rpm.

Personally, I really like the new Hemi, but I've always wondered what a sharp individual could do if they tried to improve the LA with some new technology.

Oh, and pretty sure the Hemi is actually a little heavier than an LA, not a 100# lighter. Maybe with the aluminum block, but not cast iron. Don't remember where I saw the info, but pretty sure the "Hemi is lighter" is an urban legend.
 
It is lighter hands down,but not by a whole lot.
 
Went back and watched the Powerblock TV episode where they weighted a Gen III Hemi. Long block with intake (blower intake so no carbs, or blower), valve covers, front cover and oil pan and an electric water pump, but no PS, alternator, AC compressor and no exhaust. Total was 509# on the scale. Time you dress it completely, I doubt there is much difference between an iron LA and that Hemi.

Don't know if it was a 6.1 or 5.7, though. Might make a little difference, but not 80#.
 
I had this same question when I first was planning the build on my car as well and found that the price to swap the 5.7 was actually pretty comparable to several other options I was looking at. A fairly vanilla 5.7 swap, a lightweight big block, a forced induction small block, and a small block stroker were all coming up around 5-7k for me (I put together a spreadsheet with all the different part prices). When I originally did the swap I went with a carb setup and had it in the car and running for probably 5-6k all together (I didn't get a computer or harness with my engine anyway). I later came across an awesome deal on a Megasquirt 3 and have since converted back over to fuel injection.

One of the big reasons I leaned toward the newer engine is because of the potential and general advancements in engine design in the past 40 years. As many have mentioned, some very light work easily puts you into 400hp+ territory. Doing that on the older engines requires a fair amount of high end parts.

I'll be the first to say my gas mileage hasn't been what I was hoping (currently around 16-17) with a 4 speed and a 3.55 rear gear instead of the 20 that several have seen. However I also realize I pretty much doubled the horsepower of the little 318 that was in the car when I bought it and kept the same gas mileage, so that's still a win in my book. I'm sure there's probably a little left in the tune to help bump that up, but it's been running well so I haven't messed with it. My next project is a T56 swap to get the overdrive that I really want once I find the right trans.

Long story short, the 3G swap is now pretty much entirely bolt in, which was one of the main reasons I attempted it. I don't have the fab skills or tools to make my own headers and do significant sheet metal work, or I would have probably gone with an easier swap. The parts are a little more expensive than other brands (like an LS swap into an old Chevy), but to swap a plain stock 3G into an old car really isn't that hard. The main thing that seems to hang most people up is the electronics. They don't really bother me, but they are a black box for a lot of people. Unfortunately they just don't seem to have a good solution for this yet. I originally looked into the FAST EZ-EFI system. They make a kit that's designed to work with stock fuel injection, so it's essentially just a computer and a wiring harness that self tunes, but I believe you have to have GM sensors, so you might have to adapt a couple of things.
 
I had this same question when I first was planning the build on my car as well and found that the price to swap the 5.7 was actually pretty comparable to several other options I was looking at. A fairly vanilla 5.7 swap, a lightweight big block, a forced induction small block, and a small block stroker were all coming up around 5-7k for me (I put together a spreadsheet with all the different part prices). When I originally did the swap I went with a carb setup and had it in the car and running for probably 5-6k all together (I didn't get a computer or harness with my engine anyway). I later came across an awesome deal on a Megasquirt 3 and have since converted back over to fuel injection.

One of the big reasons I leaned toward the newer engine is because of the potential and general advancements in engine design in the past 40 years. As many have mentioned, some very light work easily puts you into 400hp+ territory. Doing that on the older engines requires a fair amount of high end parts.

I'll be the first to say my gas mileage hasn't been what I was hoping (currently around 16-17) with a 4 speed and a 3.55 rear gear instead of the 20 that several have seen. However I also realize I pretty much doubled the horsepower of the little 318 that was in the car when I bought it and kept the same gas mileage, so that's still a win in my book. I'm sure there's probably a little left in the tune to help bump that up, but it's been running well so I haven't messed with it. My next project is a T56 swap to get the overdrive that I really want once I find the right trans.

Long story short, the 3G swap is now pretty much entirely bolt in, which was one of the main reasons I attempted it. I don't have the fab skills or tools to make my own headers and do significant sheet metal work, or I would have probably gone with an easier swap. The parts are a little more expensive than other brands (like an LS swap into an old Chevy), but to swap a plain stock 3G into an old car really isn't that hard. The main thing that seems to hang most people up is the electronics. They don't really bother me, but they are a black box for a lot of people. Unfortunately they just don't seem to have a good solution for this yet. I originally looked into the FAST EZ-EFI system. They make a kit that's designed to work with stock fuel injection, so it's essentially just a computer and a wiring harness that self tunes, but I believe you have to have GM sensors, so you might have to adapt a couple of things.


can you still run power steering with the hemi and headers installed?
 
I had this same question when I first was planning the build on my car as well and found that the price to swap the 5.7 was actually pretty comparable to several other options I was looking at. A fairly vanilla 5.7 swap, a lightweight big block, a forced induction small block, and a small block stroker were all coming up around 5-7k for me (I put together a spreadsheet with all the different part prices). When I originally did the swap I went with a carb setup and had it in the car and running for probably 5-6k all together (I didn't get a computer or harness with my engine anyway). I later came across an awesome deal on a Megasquirt 3 and have since converted back over to fuel injection.

One of the big reasons I leaned toward the newer engine is because of the potential and general advancements in engine design in the past 40 years. As many have mentioned, some very light work easily puts you into 400hp+ territory. Doing that on the older engines requires a fair amount of high end parts.

I'll be the first to say my gas mileage hasn't been what I was hoping (currently around 16-17) with a 4 speed and a 3.55 rear gear instead of the 20 that several have seen. However I also realize I pretty much doubled the horsepower of the little 318 that was in the car when I bought it and kept the same gas mileage, so that's still a win in my book. I'm sure there's probably a little left in the tune to help bump that up, but it's been running well so I haven't messed with it. My next project is a T56 swap to get the overdrive that I really want once I find the right trans.

Long story short, the 3G swap is now pretty much entirely bolt in, which was one of the main reasons I attempted it. I don't have the fab skills or tools to make my own headers and do significant sheet metal work, or I would have probably gone with an easier swap. The parts are a little more expensive than other brands (like an LS swap into an old Chevy), but to swap a plain stock 3G into an old car really isn't that hard. The main thing that seems to hang most people up is the electronics. They don't really bother me, but they are a black box for a lot of people. Unfortunately they just don't seem to have a good solution for this yet. I originally looked into the FAST EZ-EFI system. They make a kit that's designed to work with stock fuel injection, so it's essentially just a computer and a wiring harness that self tunes, but I believe you have to have GM sensors, so you might have to adapt a couple of things.

Next time you get near a modern Chrysler car with a stock Hemi, have a listen. depending on the year, you are hearing 350-400 HP. Now listen to a 400 HP LA small block. The modern hemi makes similar power with a lot less stress. Add a cam and headers and you are over 400 and it almost sounds like your mom's car.

The reasons for me are:
Less weight--I thought it was 70-80 lbs less than an LA. I'm not interested in A/C, power steering, or power brakes.
Better MPG--I actually like driving my car and if it got better mileage, I'd probably drive it even more. But....I'm convinced the key is overdrive trannies to max out the mileage no matter the engine.
Good power without the compromises of a built LA.
Smoother operation at all temperatures--It's pretty much gonna start without having to worry about chokes, flooding, washing down the cylinders with raw fuel, etc.

My quandary is my 68 is loud, smelly, creaky, hot, and I love the sound of the AFB opening up (and the gas gauge needle going down). And don't forget the sound of the classic Mopar starter.
I like all that. It's what a Barracuda should be and I look forward to it every time "I jump in and fire that mother up".

Is a 68 Barracuda still a 68 Barracuda with a modern drivetrain, sound insulation, big wattage system, leather interior, temperature control, etc.? I'd probably miss all the old stuff but I still want a 5.7 in my cuda. But that's where my 69 comes in as it will remain as close to stock as possible because of it's pedigree.

It's approaching a modern street rod built from a catalog. A fiberglass 32 Ford roadster, aftermarket frame and suspension, modern GM LS engine with A/C, satellite radio, power windows, power rack & pinion, etc. Really? Can you still call that a 32? Not a single part is 32 vintage.

Or a 62 Chevy built on an Art Carr chassis.

Or a NASCAR stock car.
 
can you still run power steering with the hemi and headers installed?

I haven't personally, though I believe there are a few different solutions at the moment. I guess it sounds like the Borgeson box is now out, I think that was still in development when I did the swap a few years back. If you go the more expensive route and pick up an Alter-K I think you can do a power rack with modified Chrysler or regular GM pump. A few people have done rack swaps on stock K members as well that might be an option, but I think typically the steering geometry is less than ideal. Power brakes aren't as much of a challenge, though it can get pretty tight in there. I ended up removing my booster to give some extra space and because I think it was on the way out anyway.
 
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