Wideband O2 sensor ("shoulda bought this years ago")

-
MopaR&D

MopaR&D

Nerd Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
5,531
Reaction score
2,834
Location
Augusta, GA
For anyone who has been considering getting one of these but wasn't sure for whatever reason, DO IT. I just got my Innovate LC-2 wideband sensor with digital gauge wired in today and on the first drive with it I found that my Carter AFB has been running no leaner than 13.8:1 at cruise. I bought this kit for $229 and when I think about it I have put 10,000+ miles on this engine since I built it three years ago; the amount of money I have wasted on gas from having a richer-than-needed cruise circuit is probably close to that if not more. The best MPG I have gotten is around 17 on the highway and I currently average around 15 with mixed driving. If I can get the ratio above 15 at least (preferably 16) I should be able to gain 2-4 MPG or more. That's a lot of money over just 5-10k miles.

Also now I can tune my 750 Mighty Demon with ease :evil3:
 
Running lean is one reason new engines last longer. Rich mixtures dilute the oil film on the cylinder walls.
 
I got into WB when I started fiddlin' with EFI. Best 200 bucks or so I ever spent. In fact when I was runnin the Holley Commander system, I interfaced an innovate WB setup with the Commander ECU.
 
Did the same for mine, went with an Innovate and found out I was a little lean with a T/Q. richened it up, better idle and cruise throttle response. power across the board went up and my mileage went up to 15 from 13. Next is switching to 2.94 from 3.55 gear set to see if it gets a little better mpg.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
For anyone who has been considering getting one of these but wasn't sure for whatever reason, DO IT. I just got my Innovate LC-2 wideband sensor with digital gauge wired in today and on the first drive with it I found that my Carter AFB has been running no leaner than 13.8:1 at cruise. I bought this kit for $229 and when I think about it I have put 10,000+ miles on this engine since I built it three years ago; the amount of money I have wasted on gas from having a richer-than-needed cruise circuit is probably close to that if not more. The best MPG I have gotten is around 17 on the highway and I currently average around 15 with mixed driving. If I can get the ratio above 15 at least (preferably 16) I should be able to gain 2-4 MPG or more. That's a lot of money over just 5-10k miles.

Also now I can tune my 750 Mighty Demon with ease :evil3:
Click to expand...

Does that one log data that can be downloaded? Also, how many O2 sensors does it come with? If only one, which exhaust side do you put it in? Or does it even matter?

I've been thinking about installing a wideband myself, but know nothing about them.
 
I am curious about the number of sensors also.
Back in the day with the Sun equipment, I would put the sniffer in one tail pipe and adjust that side of the carb and then move the sniffer to the other pipe and adjust the other side of the carb.
 
One sensor most of the time. Some kits have two. The sensors need to be heated or they will plug up and die. Can't just leave them in the pipe with no connection to the box.

They work really well. If you want to see each side, place a bung in each pipe and swap it.

Dual plane intakes muck up adjusting of the carb to change how each side may read.
 
mopowers said:
Does that one log data that can be downloaded? Also, how many O2 sensors does it come with? If only one, which exhaust side do you put it in? Or does it even matter?

I've been thinking about installing a wideband myself, but know nothing about them.
Click to expand...

The innovate stuff does data logging.
 
mopowers said:
Does that one log data that can be downloaded? Also, how many O2 sensors does it come with? If only one, which exhaust side do you put it in? Or does it even matter?

I've been thinking about installing a wideband myself, but know nothing about them.
Click to expand...

I also have the Innovate kit, and as said it can be the best money you have spent (but I said that about almost everything I did to my car) :D
They are fantastic for getting the entire throttle range tuned, as a lot of people just tune for idle and WOT because they can't tell something isn't right or it just plain takes too long to dial it in.
The W02 eliminates all that and shows exactly what is going on all through the ranges of RPM's
As a side benefit the Innovate model has error code readouts on screen.
One day I was driving along and the gauge started flashing an E9 (low voltage) and sure enough I took a look under the hood and a ring terminal had snapped off at the alternator.
I have a dual plane intake and dual exhaust so if I wanted to I could add another bung and switch sides with it, but the plugs can tell you if there is an imbalance (if a person can't tell by hearing it)
Figure if you have the same jets and.or needles on both sides of the carb (left and right) and you have a smooth idle, you are probably close enough.

Rob is correct about the sensor being required to be in use if in the exhaust stream, and the Innovate sensor is heated so it clears itself.

Another time I was driving along and the car hiccupped and a quick glance at the gauge told me it went lean for a couple of seconds.
That gave me a heads up that my fuel pump was acting up. (two days later the pump died) but I had already gotten another one to be ready for it.
 
Just a side note, do not be tempted with a "narrow band" sensor. They are useless
 
i've used the AEM product ( excellent quality ) on my Turbo cars, but that's a single 3" exhaust and the sensor is roughly 20" behind the turbo. Data logging is nice, especially if running Mega Squirt or FAST or...
 
Yup, no surprise here. I love mine, really takes the time consuming voodoo out of the tuning process.
 
To the OP, don't be surprised if you don't pick up any MPGs by leaning it out to 15 or 16:1. I use an Innovate MTX-L with a tailpipe clamp so I can tune all five cars. I've found that tuning them lean doesn't help mileage much, if at all, and then you have to put up with mediocre driveability (at least that's what I've noticed, YMMV). I have five cars with varying engine designs. I've noticed that they tend to run the best with 14-15:1 AFRs at cruise. Any leaner and you can feel it, especially on light throttle tip-in. You might find that where you have it set now is where you like it.
 
^ I think your onto something, ESPECIALLY if it has a tall duration. Balancing drive-ability, and getting all the circuits to stack right and act as one smooth operation from idle, cruise, enrichment, WOT is a juggling act, sometimes you have to compromise..... Then the weather changes; all you can do is get it close over an average then take the distraction out of the car.
 
these things are fun to use...really lets you clean up the idle..
shoot for about 14.0 for cruise in case you have a lean cyl.As stated going to 15 may not
help mileage but may hurt drivability.
..keep wot throttle around 12 - 12.5 to be safe.
when tuned just move it to the next vehicle or give your buddies a turn...great tool
 
So to answer some of your questions... my kit does have data logging capability and it came with one sensor. Like has been mentioned when you are running a dual plane intake it doesn't really matter which side you put the sensor in because each side of the intake plenum feeds cylinders on both banks. I'll try to get a picture up tonight of where I put the sensor in the exhaust, I haven't mounted the gauge up yet so no use in showing it haha.

just today I bought an Edelbrock calibration kit and read up last night on tuning methods for carters. I know if i lean out the cruise mixture it will become a lot more sensitive to throttle input; i will most likely need to swap the step-up springs to bring on the power circuit quicker and fiddle with the accelerator pump.

One thing to note this is a place where high compression engines with good quench are at an advantage; they can be leaned out more than "slow burn" engines before they run rough and lose power. I will see soon enough if this holds true...
 
Been thinkin about one for a while. How did you do your exhaust clamp?
 
Their great for dual quads, make summit price match e bay or Amazon - I got mine for $156 !!
I think it went something like - can you match amazon at $162 ? Summit says - I see it on e bay for $156?
I'LL TAKE IT !! My credit card number is......
 
j par said:
Their great for dual quads, make summit price match e bay or Amazon - I got mine for $156 !!
I think it went something like - can you match amazon at $162 ? Summit says - I see it on e bay for $156?
I'LL TAKE IT !! My credit card number is......
Click to expand...

Ah that's a great idea, $70+ off would have been really nice dangit! lol

So my 'hypothesis' was confirmed; I changed to one size smaller primary jets and the mixture went up to around 17:1 at cruise and a bit under 13:1 under power. I was astonished that my 360 took it with only slight complaining; it had a noticeable "semi-bog" at light throttle and surged a tad. I popped in slightly thinner (cruise circuit) metering rods and while it's still not as crisp off-idle as before the driveability is basically the same. I'm not worried about losing a bit of power either because I have another carb (750 Mighty Demon) which will be tuned strictly for performance and I'll use that when I want to go racing.

A pic of the sensor in the exhaust, instructions specify it's placed at least 24 inches back from the header collector...
20150721_203639.jpg


And here's the sensor wire routed up along the firewall, I simply cut a small hole in the rubber plug for the clutch linkage hole (mine is automatic) and fed it through there.
20150721_203652.jpg
 
Been using for years, however, Innovate is the LAST company I'd buy that from - I've had bad product and customer service issues. Dynocom is the tool I use.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
Ah that's a great idea, $70+ off would have been really nice dangit! lol
Click to expand...
I know I've done found out later I spent more than I should have on parts and it REALLY stab's me hard in the cheap-skate-boone!! LOL
This is a great part of reading threads on the forum. We hopefully save the next person.
 
MOPEkidD-3 said:
just got my Innovate LC-2 wideband sensor with digital gauge wired in today and on the first drive with it I found that my Carter AFB has been running no leaner than 13.8:1 at cruise.
Click to expand...

When I put my Innovate unit in, found out my Holley was running around 11.0 at cruise. Talk about dumping fuel! Explains why I get 5 mpg.
 
clinteg said:
When I put my Innovate unit in, found out my Holley was running around 11.0 at cruise. Talk about dumping fuel! Explains why I get 5 mpg.
Click to expand...

Yup gotta jet down that beast, don't want to wear out your rings from fuel wash. Even 14:1 at cruise is wayy better for engine wear.

Took the car on a proper drive tonight so the carb got fully warmed up (air gap manifold takes a while). Mixture was around 16:1 at cruise and 13:1 at power still; it drove great no real difference in driveability unless it's not fully warmed up.

Gave me an idea of what to aim for on the demon, 12.8-13 at WOT and whatever the cruise ends up at as long as it's above 14.

This is amazing it would have taken ages to figure this out without knowing the AFR directly and what the engine likes at different ratios.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top