Right. The big blocks have the plug wires routed under the manifolds, which also works very well with headers. Why people try to put them on differently is anyone's guess. Maybe to show them off? Who knows?
You have to be INSANE to have long-tube headers on a big-block A-body Mopar!
- Thread starter jimharvard
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Right. The big blocks have the plug wires routed under the manifolds, which also works very well with headers. Why people try to put them on differently is anyone's guess. Maybe to show them off? Who knows?
Take the header out to replace the starter. The tti headers and the stock started are compatible to work together but tti says it won’t come out. Or in! Header removal (may be partial ) has to be done.
I don't know man. I'm not an advocate for header wrap at all. They hold moisture and as a result, rust headers out pretty quickly. Also, they can do the exact opposite of what they were intended to do, especially in close quarters. I've seen wrap actually contribute to overheating, because they hold the heat in, instead of allowing it to dissipate. I know on my stuff, I'll never use it.
I feel for you. I inherited a set of ceramic coated Hooker long tubes on my 74 Dart. The drivers side are destroyed, steering box knuckle wore right through one tube and the lowest tube is wore right through from rubbing various speed bumps, curbs, etc. I can't tell you how many times I cursed the headers, pulling spark plugs, wiring up the starter, etc.
We recently pulled the engine for a rebuild and I am gladly getting rid of the Hooker headers. Anyone want a set of gently used headers? Passenger side is pristine, drivers side is trashed.
i don't know for sure if these are TTi's or not, however, i've been really studying my headers and they just seem like they could have been designed to fit better. the head bolts are ARB's but the front bolt is right beside the tube and you can only get it off with an open end 3/8th wrench that is at least 6" long. the front tube could have easily had more clearance from this bolt. and the descending tubes could have been grouped closer together which would have made these headers clear the engine and fender well much better. i would think whomever built these headers would have done a little more R&D on installing and removing these things. i watch the 4x4 shows on Motor Trend TV all the time and watch the guys build off-road buggies from scratch from tubing. they come up with all kinds of complex bends and angles. maybe the headers for big block A-body Mopars were made years ago before good tube bending machines were available. it certainly seems to me that current technology could solve the problems of fitment with these headers.
OK that is "Strike 3" on the headers.
Header wrap and thin wall header tubes rusting out, not to mention grinding holes in the headers going over high spots in the road, and wearing holes in them with the steering shaft.
Not looking very promising for the header operation . . .
Header wrap and thin wall header tubes rusting out, not to mention grinding holes in the headers going over high spots in the road, and wearing holes in them with the steering shaft.
Not looking very promising for the header operation . . .
i'm hoping the mini-starter that i ordered from Summit will have more space between it and the header. i'm going to NAPA tomorrow to get a Pitman Arm puller. i think i can get the driver side header down out of the car with the drag link and Pitman Arm out of the way. i also noticed that whomever installed these headers ran the starter wire through the header and put the wire in an asbestos/heat (?) sock of some kind. i'm going to find a better way to route the starter wires than to go through the middle of the hot header tubes.
I just WISH a bunch of us Mopar guys could get together and design some affordable headers that actually fit GOOD and are fairly easy to install, because no one else can. The companies that do make them act like they are a frikkin God send and they are the best thing since sliced bread. If there was an investor interested, we could probably get it done. The demand would have to be there.
i understand your "anger" at exhaust headers over the problems they present. however, unless the factory designed exhaust manifolds are very well designed with excellent flow characteristics - which most factory manifolds are not, you just can't beat the performance gain with a set of aftermarket tube headers installed. on a V8 engine with very restrictive exhaust manifolds, a set of freely-flowing tube headers are good for between 40-60 HP gain. there is no other single bolt on modification to a factory V8 other than a Tubocharger, Supercharger or NOS that will provide that much HP gain.
The A body platform was essentially the same from 63-66 and from 67-76.
The E body platform was a totally separate program.
I understand your frustration. I have said it for years that when these cars are kept all stock, they are fantastic. IF you want headers, they are a pisser. Look at the design and of all the obstacles. The engineers somehow thought it made sense to cram almost everything on the left side. I understand the steering box and shift linkage but why put the starter there, the ATF cooler lines and speedometer cable? They could have spread things around a bit. Add to that the torsion bars and you see why headers cost more for our cars. The labor to design them to clear everything must have taken 4 times the amount of time to fit a 70-81 Camaro. The Chevy had the starter, cooler lines and the transmission downshift components (Vacuum Modulator) all on the right side plus the steering linkage was in front of axle centerline.
I'm not saying that the Chevy design was better, it just made things a LOT easier for exhaust clearance.
Here is a tip though.....Install the header and starter together at the same time. It is impossible to bolt up the header and slip the starter in place.
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I mean, look at @matthon. he made some headers for his early A body with a 440 right at home. Yeah, they got some love dents so they fit, but crap man, if the guy had a multi million dollar investor with state of the art equipment he could make some award winning headers. It CAN be done. It HAS been done. I WOULD pay a grand for a set of headers.....but I tell you what, they'd have to fit GOOD and AS ADVERTISED. Without all this BS "what mounts have you got?" "did you shim the motor?" and all that nonsense. And CERTAINLY it can be done with the 67 and up cars. I'm here to tell yall......and I ain't tryin to be a Billy badass, but if I paid for something like TTI headers and them sumbitches didn't fit, that company would have some header sized holes in their front glass, I swear to God. That's just ridiculous.
i've done some technical research comparing "shorty" headers and "long-tube" headers. the information i've found indicates that long-tube headers produce more horsepower than shorty headers due to the flow characteristics of the long tubes which apparently "extract" exhaust gasses more efficiently and in a more "robust" manner. however, shorty headers are obviously easier to install and remove simply due to their design. if i were trying to design better "classic muscle car" Mopar headers, on the shorty headers, i would make the tubes as short as possible to a collection point and then i would design a series of "attachment" collectors that could be "swiveled" or "angled" depending upon the need of the car body and accessories. on long-tube headers, i would make them in two pieces where all four tubes were short and then the longer under chassis section slipped into the manifold section individual tubes like what you have with a standard exhaust pipe. i can't believe such a design would detract from the efficiency of the long-tube design. frankly, i think old mopar guys would be happy to pay between $500-1000 for either of these designs if their chief advantage was ease of installation and removal. i know i certainly would pay a little more money for a set of headers that could actually be "installed" or "removed" by a "normal" person.
Yeah that would effectively make them a little "adjustable" with the little bit of play they'd have from the joints. That would help them fit more cars. I would be all for a shorty.....or mid length. I think it's splittin hairs between long and short tubes on a street car anyway. Short tube headers are still MUCH better than any manifold.
Just for the sake of argument, do you have the original exhaust manifolds?
no, i purchased this car with the current headers installed. you probably already know that OEM 383 exhaust manifolds are very hard to find and are expensive when you do find a set. i have seen these but the difference between factory manifolds and headers is anywhere from 40 to 60 HP so i want to keep the headers.
I would too, especially since it has them already. Keep in mind though that the 69 manifolds were the "best" flowing of the big block A body manifolds. The word "best" being subjective, of course. lol
Can you weld? Heck, buy some flanges and header bends and try whoopin some up.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Have you considered that just because the starter only clicked, that it might not actually be a faulty starter? There are are several reasons to get that result only one of which requires the starter to come down. I mean, Ima thinkin' because of the difficulty required, you must have done your due diligence. Except I couldn't find it in this thread.
Either way, if he keeps the car, he'll replace the starter ONE day, so he may as well prepare.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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truedat
Kendog 170
Let the boy go !
Just changed my mini starter . 440 auto TTI long tube. Didn't have to pull the arm off the box, just dropped steering linkage completly. I unbolted the header from Engine and collector after taking out all spark plugs .Had to move around the header but didn't remove. Just barely got starter out and in. Didn't touch the torsion bar. I know 440 has a higher deck so maybe you can unbolt the DS motor mount at K frame and jack motor up enough to get more clearance for moving the header out of the way. All said took me 3-4 hours and patience. Still happy it can be done.
1) 64-66 engine bays are narrower than the 67-76 a bodies.
2) Chrysler engineers of that time were smoking dope to come up with 99% of the stuff we Love about being different as MoPar guys today.
3) Reengineering headers for 50 year old cars is not profitable- period. Especially for a market of Big block abody cars. Also too many variations to contend with. Run what’s already out there and suck it up or build your own. Sadly that’s the choices.
4) To the original poster- support the engine and drop k- frame. Sorry it’s a lot of work but it will be the easiest way to change the starter. Lord knows how long that original starter has been baking above that header. The “mini starter” will make a lot more sense once you complete this project. Let’s says on the slow side you take a weekend to complete this job- at least it will be done. Heck- your half way there now from what I’ve read. Take your time, work safe and enjoy this process. Fix things you don’t like for example a battery wire running thru the header. I’m sorry your dealing with bad engineering but your a “car guy.” Suck it up, it’s what we do. Lol!
you can do this!
2) Chrysler engineers of that time were smoking dope to come up with 99% of the stuff we Love about being different as MoPar guys today.
3) Reengineering headers for 50 year old cars is not profitable- period. Especially for a market of Big block abody cars. Also too many variations to contend with. Run what’s already out there and suck it up or build your own. Sadly that’s the choices.
4) To the original poster- support the engine and drop k- frame. Sorry it’s a lot of work but it will be the easiest way to change the starter. Lord knows how long that original starter has been baking above that header. The “mini starter” will make a lot more sense once you complete this project. Let’s says on the slow side you take a weekend to complete this job- at least it will be done. Heck- your half way there now from what I’ve read. Take your time, work safe and enjoy this process. Fix things you don’t like for example a battery wire running thru the header. I’m sorry your dealing with bad engineering but your a “car guy.” Suck it up, it’s what we do. Lol!
you can do this!
mcodecuda
Senior Member
FYI, All of the 69 M-code ‘cudas and Darts were built by Chrysler. Hurst did not assemble any of these in 69.
famous bob
mopar misfit
It may help if u raise the front of the car higher than the back too, I`m talkin way up.
I can get my 2'' TTI`s off like that , have to work the starter with it , pull all plugs , on my raised port 440/505 - 68 barracuda. No dents in the headers , I had to remove some dents and flattened tubes when I bought them
I dont have torsion bars tho ----------
Wow, would you consider selling a cube of C4? Asking for a friend.
Daves69
Well-Known Member
What ever you do make damn sure you test that new mini starter before you install it!
An even smaller starter I believe is needed for a BB with an 11" bell housing and TTI long tubes. Maybe that starter could make starter R&R more digestible when/if needed.
Accessibility is the one solid advantage with FWs.
An even smaller starter I believe is needed for a BB with an 11" bell housing and TTI long tubes. Maybe that starter could make starter R&R more digestible when/if needed.
Accessibility is the one solid advantage with FWs.
The best way (IMO) is to grab new words. Route the battery cable and the starter relay wire straight to the fire wall following the factory wiring (secure along the way) under the master cylinder, down to / or under the steering column to the bell housing (secure it there) then back towards the starter.
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