You've got to see this...

[FISHBREATH]

Pat (Pfogel) has not been on the site much recently because he has been busy doing some metal work, as mentioned in one of his more recent posts. I should say so! He e-mailed me the following (I asked him whether I could post this on FABO for him):

Pat's note:
My current manifolds are the results of several years of thinking and planning. I made my very first one with Don Nicholson for a Boss 429. We made it out of wood, cardboard and fiberglass! It worked...and I believe it became the mule for Weiand and the casting they produced. I made one for my S/G Corvette back in '78 when no one in the common ranks had one. Bill Jenkins didn't even have one, just a highly modified Edelbrock. Bill wanted to buy my engine at the Snowbirds in Bradenton one year after Lombardo grenaded the Monza in qualifying against Dyno Don. He told me I had the baddest small block at the event. I sold the engine later but not to Bill and I have no idea what ever happened to that manifold. It had angled carbs and was very trick. I also used a front distributor drive on that 331" and a Truppi-Kling crank trigger.
These Mopar big block manifolds are, as you saw, 2-manifolds. It treats the engine sort of like 2-four cylinders. Each plenum is ample enough to greatly reduce reversion impulses and at the same time, require less pump shot to saturate eliminating lean backfire associated with tunnel rams. The "funnel tunnel" design allows for big runner volume while the taper speeds up the air like a venturi (Bernoulli’s effect) and it is a straight shot into the port. They should be "sweet" with conventional cams but I just know they would love cams with the 4 and 7 firing order switched! The manifolds are extremely light weight and are 6061 T-6. They will run extremely cool and will actually drop in temperature as fuel is atomized. Carbs can be equalized using common sense and a vacuum gauge. The manifolds you see are for the low deck big blocks. The RB version is in the works and nearly done. The runners are fabricated to my blueprints by an aerospace fabricator in Clearwater, FL, that has made parts for all the space shuttles. The 4-degree carb mounts and the flanges are CNC milled at another aerospace machine shop in St. Petersburg.
My marketing goal is to make affordable sheet metal intakes for Mopar enthusiasts. Hogan and Marcella start at around $1700 and go up to $4,000 plus! I plan to create a web site for exclusive sales and service. The manifolds also eliminate that metal "bath tub" intake gasket that is such a pain when you deck a block/mill heads, etc.. They will come with an aluminum valley cover and hand-made gaskets. Holley carbs mount sideways and Edelbrocks mount in the conventional manner. I don't want to get into manufacturing the linkage because that can already be bought from Weiand or Barry Grant. Right now, the kit price looks like around $700 but I am constantly pricing production runs to try to lower costs. It is still a bargain.
I won't sell any manifolds until I run them on my engines, both street and race, and make sure they are right. They will require ported heads/port matching. They pump up the volume! The plan is to ship them "raw" in case someone wants to weld nitrous bungs, etc., but I also plan to offer powder coating at actual cost.
You can spread the word or even post this on FABO if you like. When I'm happy with how these work on my engines, I am sure I will be looking for a member with a real race car for a drag strip test mule. They should be just fine on the street too!

 

[FISHBREATH]

Note the "waggin" in the background.

 

[Burntorange70]

WOW! Very nice. Good price too.

 

[retsud_043]

Wow,that is sick.......:notworth:He is practically giving them away too. Very cool:cheers:.

 

[65barracudadude]

AWESOME!!!!! And the price is right as well.

 

[74Dart318]

PFogel is the man!
So cool

 

[451Cuda]

I'd love to get one when he's happy with the results.

Are they max wedge ports?

 

[memike]

That's it :director: I am moving next door Curtis, I have a good idea who the builder is FISHBREATH.:notworth:
You can tell he enjoys his work and is great at it. Congrat's to you Pfogel :thumbrig:
It would be nice to share a seat on the picnic bench with him for sure:rock::drinkers:

 

[pettybludart]

That,s just too cool!!I,d love to spend a day with the man,and listen to some of his incredible Racing stories!

 

[hemicop]

BEAUTIFUL! Do you have ny plans for a Hemi X-ram?

 

[hemizach]

AWESOME! haha

 

[ramcharger]

Wow! Pat is the man! :cheers::cheers::cheers: I like his idea of removing the common plenum between all the cylinders and like he says, carb syncronization should be no big deal. I also like the reducing diameter runners too.

Are there any plans for SB version?

 

[CrazyPete]

Very nice and cheap way to go!

 

[waggin]

Yea I wish,Those are all built by pat,I just did the photo's for him and some moral support,tiki bar makes a good photo shoot area....now we just need some sexy girl's to pose in the hot tub with the intakes,I can see a slanty long ram in the works in my dept but it 'll be crude looking LoL,pat's intakes are trully work's of art and the pair of them are less than 10 lbs.so ennyway's credit where credit is due Pat is the designer builder.If I'm lucky I might get to be a test pilot though!!!

That's it :director: I am moving next door Curtis, I have a good idea who the builder is FISHBREATH.:notworth:
You can tell he enjoys his work and is great at it. Congrat's to you Pfogel :thumbrig:
It would be nice to share a seat on the picnic bench with him for sure:rock::drinkers:

 

[CudaChick1968]

... The plan is to ship them "raw" in case someone wants to weld nitrous bungs, etc., but I also plan to offer powder coating at actual cost.

That's some really sweet work there, and definitely something that will be very popular ... professional, functional and affordable. Please invite Pat to keep me in mind when he's ready for the next step. :love7:

 

[FISHBREATH]

Pat, with my background in aerodynamics and wind tunnel testing, I re-read your e-mail regarding the technical aspects of your intake design. I could not get out of my mind the angled surfaces as opposed to smooth, rounded ones. Angled surfaces would normally interfere with flow, but I noted your comment about the pressure waves. Now, I think I get it. First, we are not dealing with smooth, constant flow, as if being sucked by a turbine, but are dealing with flow dominated by pressure changes within the manifold due to intake valves closing in addition to conditions caused by valve overlap.

I am picturing in my mind a standard eight cylinder high-po tunnel ram with a large common plenum. With a little more concentration on it, I might be able to understand the relationship between a pressure wave created by the closing valve of one cylinder interfering with the demand flow from another cylinder whose intake is opening. Now, dividing the eight cylinders in half would isolate that wave situation and not have a pressure wave affect the flow requirement of another cylinder. Am I on the right track?

My supposition is that the angled surfaces would reflect any existing pressure waves so as to minimize any interference inside the plenum.

 

[hemicop]

In looking at this manifold a second time, I'm beginning to see the difference between it, an old I.R. manifold & what most current tunnel rams are like. Now my question is this: given the problems with the old I.R manifolds and the bathtub-like configuration of current tunnelrams, how small a plenum can you go with this manifold before you start running into the same trouble as the old I.R. manifolds? The reason I ask is it would seem to me that the less standing air/fuel mixture you have (as in a plenum) the more efficient delivery of the mixture would be. SOOOO a related question would be: is plenum size dependent on engine size, RPM or valve specs?

 

[daredevil]

i want on the buyer list when rb intakes become available if testing goes well

 

[PFogel]

Fishbreath, you are all over it. I admire your computer skills and how you were able to import all the stuff. A column of air (with a fuel mixture) works just like a column of water. Imagine you have a garden hose feeding one of the port runners. Everytime the valve closes, what happens to the column of water? You know it briefly backs up. This is called "reversion" and it occurs in every intake at some point in the rpm band. Tunnel rams make power because they make a straight shot to a matched port and the biggest possible valve "window". There is no such thing as a manifold that is perfect or without some kind of compromise. My "Funnel Tunnels" are a compromise because they are configured by math and physics to accomodate the combinations that most of us mortals will use.....we are not "Joe Pro Stock". My manifolds are designed to work within a multitude of parameters that most can deal with. I don't want to get into the math discussions about the final plenum volume or the volume of the runners. I will say that the proprietary findings are that they will be very efficient "air shock absorbers" in the plenum while the openings of the runners are huge enough to feed a 10,000 rpm Pro Stock engine yet taper to where velocity greatly increases on every draw. The draw is on only four dedicated cylinders and not eight. It cuts fuel mixture problems by 50% because only 4 piston strokes are working on the plenum and not eight. This is the theory and I am really looking forward to proving it on the engines. I'm not Einstein, just an experienced retired (or retarded) school teacher. Seriously, I have really put my heart into this. Just as importantly, I want this stuff proudly made in the USA by real Americans with quality and an affordable price. I am working constantly to get the component cost lower. I am also doing this on my own money with my partner, Ron. He is a retired master machinist from both Honeywell Aerospace and Moog Areospace. He was the "model maker", or the man that always made the very first working part. He has done the most complicated and intricate parts in titanium for experimental aircraft guidance systems that are hard to imagine. Hell, I couldn't even read the blueprints!!! Thanks for letting me know you have aircraft experience, Barry. We have never met but I feel like we have. Thanks for being a friend and for being so damned smart and intuitive!
Pat

 

[70dart]

Nice product, can't wait to see the final product and results. Man you guys are way out of my league, nice to have guys like you looking out for us.

 

[PFogel]

First of all, thanks for the compliments: burntorange70, retsud043, 65barracudadude,74dart318, memike, pettybluedart, Hemizach and cudagirl. hemicop, I have no plans to build them for hemis because of the limited market but we could build one for you to blueprints. The manifolds are not "IR" meaning "individual runner". Each of 4-cylinders share a mixture chamber (plenum). IRs have worked wonderfully on motorcycle engines where one carbs feeds one cylinder through a short introductory manifold. Those engines rapidly "drive over" the reversion phase into the "sweet phase" of cam matching engine rpm. It is much harder to do with 8-cylinders but large throttle blade fuel injectors do a much better job of overcoming it than carbs do. If you had to err with something, you would be better off erring with larger plenum than not enough. Some will argue (and I'm not about to) that cubes and rpm are the most important perameters in the plenum. From my own experiences, the cam has the most to do with it even though all apply. My manifolds are designed to work with 650 to 850 CFM carbs depending on the purpose of the engine and the aggressiveness of the cam. All it takes to make them very driveable on the street is moderation on carb size relative to cubic inches and rpm. See what I mean? I am really looking forward to vacuum readings! I hope I made sense to you, hemicop. Thanks.
daredevil, I sure would be happy to have you for a customer! B or RB?
Now, ramcharger, you show real understanding and we have a kindred spirit. How did the job interview go? You have been in my prayers. Your well-being and happiness is important to all of us.....your friends on FABO.
Pat

 

[PFogel]

70dart, thank you for your kind words. YOU MATTER!!!
Pat

 

[FISHBREATH]

Pat, I so much admire your engineering skills and your understanding of the inner workings of the internal combustion engine. I get the impression that you can actually visualize the internal flows. You are going where no man has gone before. I would love to see a 3-D display of the fluid dynamics going on in your manifold.

Just for general knowledge: I know that port injection is very accurate in metering fuel to cylinders and that intake runners can be made to order for PFI. However, the cost of developing a port injection manifold to go with hi-po injectors and fuel supply are probably near prohibitive. Besides, you need to run a carburetor in certain racing classes. I can't wait 'til you get some testing and tweaking going on.

It is a pleasure just listening and learning from you.

 

[PFogel]

I just wanted to say thanks, daredevil. I will be letting everyone know how it goes when I get to the next stage.
Pat

 

[PFogel]

It's guys like you that keep me thumping, Barry (aka FISHBREATH) Yeah, that 3-d would be nice and you are right about the costs of EFI. In any case, I'm an old school carburetor man and I have learned from the best. You know what, Barry?.....can you tell us someday about how you came up with the name "FISHBREATH"??? Anything to do with a tuna taco? LOL!!! You are the bomb.:cheers:
I have to compliment my buddy, Waggin. He is always supportive and generous to a fault. He is very creative and tallented and fun to be around. He keeps cold beer all up in that refrigerator too! He's the DAWG!:cheers: