More Electrical Help ...

[Mattax]

The rear tail lights, backup lights and plate light are not connected to the harness yet. Would this effect anything?

I don't think so..as long as nothing is touching.
There might be some connections that if lose, electricity will find a path to ground through a different circuit. when it happens usually it has to do with the turn signal and parking lights.

It looks like '62 one fuse is used for Dome & Brake lights.

Brake light switch closed power flows to the turn signal switch ===> Turn signal switch connections to the brake lights are normally closed ====>
Power flows to each tail light through seperate wires (through two connectors) ==> bulbs===>each has a ground wire in the trunk.

Maybe schematics help. These are based on my 67 so the connector cavity numbers and wire positions may be different.
Power flow when brake switch closed.

Power flow when Brake Switch Closed with Turn signal for left turn.

Dome Light
Power is always present at the dome light. The switches are in the ground wires. Any switch closed completes the circuit.
Based on that, here's how I interpret the '62 wiring diagram.

These wires from that fuse are always at system voltage.
In other words they are ready supply power.

Close any switch and current will flow through the lamp to ground.

Something has to be crossed for to connect the stop lamp wiring to the other stuff.

 

[gsoco]

Turn signal switch is interesting...the steering wheel is off - I did connect the steering column plug...but no other lever or anything...is there any ground in the horn / turn signal switch that might need connecting?

 

[slantsixdan]

Definitely no fuselink in '62. Our cars didn't start getting much of anything in the way of reasonable circuit protection til '63-'64. A few individual circuits are protected by inline fuses in the '60-'61 cars, or a small underdash fuseblock in the '62 cars, but there is no main circuit protection (e.g. fusible link). Adding a good deal more circuit protection is a very fine idea, sooner rather than later if you want to keep the car. You may want to take a look at this thread on circuit protection upgrades.

 

[gsoco]

Definitely no fuselink in '62. Our cars didn't start getting much of anything in the way of reasonable circuit protection til '63-'64. A few individual circuits are protected by inline fuses, but there is no main circuit protection (e.g. fusible link). Adding a good deal more circuit protection is a very fine idea, sooner rather than later if you want to keep the car. You may want to take a look at this thread on circuit protection upgrades.

 

[gsoco]

Thanks Dan. Good info.

 

[gsoco]

I don't think so..as long as nothing is touching.
There might be some connections that if lose, electricity will find a path to ground through a different circuit. when it happens usually it has to do with the turn signal and parking lights.

It looks like '62 one fuse is used for Dome & Brake lights.

Brake light switch closed power flows to the turn signal switch ===> Turn signal switch connections to the brake lights are normally closed ====>
Power flows to each tail light through seperate wires (through two connectors) ==> bulbs===>each has a ground wire in the trunk.

Maybe schematics help. These are based on my 67 so the connector cavity numbers and wire positions may be different.
Power flow when brake switch closed.
View attachment 1715348264

Power flow when Brake Switch Closed with Turn signal for left turn.
View attachment 1715348265

Dome Light
Power is always present at the dome light. The switches are in the ground wires. Any switch closed completes the circuit.
Based on that, here's how I interpret the '62 wiring diagram.
View attachment 1715348268


These wires from that fuse are always at system voltage.
In other words they are ready supply power.
View attachment 1715348274

Close any switch and current will flow through the lamp to ground.
View attachment 1715348278

Something has to be crossed for to connect the stop lamp wiring to the other stuff.

ok. Here's where I am now. Old ignition switch, new start relay and ballast resistor. Did the check at S2 and have 12.5 vdc in run and 10.75 when cranking. Car now starts. With key in running, ballast resistor gets hot to touch. Disconnected J2A and J3 and of course won't start....no lights or instrument cluster activity...

 

[Mattax]

S2 and have 12.5 vdc in run

Getting closer to one of the problems.
Why does it have connection in run?
And why isn't it turning the starter in run of there is power on the hot side?
Is the ground run to ignition switch or something strang liek that?

 

[gsoco]

Update....pulled main harness out and took voltages at light sw.

Getting closer to one of the problems.
Why does it have connection in run?
And why isn't it turning the starter in run of there is power on the hot side?
Is the ground run to ignition switch or something strang liek that?

The old ignition switch does not have the grd connection on it. But the car is cranking fine now - starting - radio works, now headlights work...as you'd expect, have some 12 volt power to the light switch and the temp gauge is maxing out again...still no movement from the ammeter or gas gauge...but the gas gauge may just be registering low because there is little gas in the tank, so I am going to get gas and see if there is any change...just do not understand the ballast resistor issue...the new starter relay requires a ground wire and S-2 is in a different position, but the car cranks correctly...

 

[Mattax]

the new starter relay requires a ground wire and S-2 is in a different position, but the car cranks correctly...

Sounds like the terminal positions may be different in more ways than you're thinking. or maybe its just a diffrent type of relay and not correct at all.
Start wire to the relay should only be hot when key is in Start.
The start terminal that wire attaches to should connect to ground. Through a wire to a safety switch or the case
I don't know what the 'G" terminal on some of the replacement ignition key switches is for. Don't use it. Maybe it is for ground, maybe its not. Test it on all key positions to be sure it doesn't connect to anything if you're curious.

Take some photos and post them up. It will be easier to see what you have.

 

[gsoco]

Sounds like the terminal positions may be different in more ways than you're thinking. or maybe its just a diffrent type of relay and not correct at all.
Start wire to the relay should only be hot when key is in Start.
The start terminal that wire attaches to should connect to ground. Through a wire to a safety switch or the case
I don't know what the 'G" terminal on some of the replacement ignition key switches is for. Don't use it. Maybe it is for ground, maybe its not. Test it on all key positions to be sure it doesn't connect to anything if you're curious.

Take some photos and post them up. It will be easier to see what you have.

Will do. Just FYI, these things work: cigar lighter, radio, headlights, starter, Ammeter. Things that don't work: gas gauge (pegged low), temp gauge (pegged high), ballast resistor overheating....engine now starts but won't keep running. But things are getting better - I think.

 

[Mattax]

Can you disconnect the key switch easily and attach the ohm meter to the terminals?
One to the power feed and then with key off, then key run, then key start see which terminals connect with each position. Then you'll know.

 

[gsoco]

Can you disconnect the key switch easily and attach the ohm meter to the terminals?
One to the power feed and then with key off, then key run, then key start see which terminals connect with each position. Then you'll know.

Will do...

 

[gsoco]

Will do...

Traveling for work now and next week...back at it after that. Thanks again!

 

[gsoco]

Hello - I am back after some work and medical issues and trying to resolve the electrical problems that remain....I took all your advice and studied it during my "off" time. Now the temp gauge is OK and all the other accessories work. The last issues are the gas gauge and the instrument cluster lights. What if the gas gauge was not connected to the sending unit? Would it peg low? Checked the fuses for the lights and they are good...going to check the voltage at the fuse block next...thanks again for your insights.
Jason

 

[gsoco]

Hows the Oil pressure gauge? If that OK then the instrument voltage regulator is
Ok. That being said the other 2 gauges first need to be checked as separate problems. Lift the wire from temp sender and measure from that wire to chassis ground It should be 5V ditto the fuel. If this checks out sounds as if the temp wire or sender
is shorted to ground and fuel sender is open
Panel lights could be bulbs or no 12v to circuit board, also remove the electrical
socket(multi wire) on the back of the instrument cluster to clean and inspect.

 

[gsoco]

So, a year later(ish) still have the ballast resistor issue and the car won't start...All other electrical issues are resolved...

 

[kursplat]

test the ballast resistor?

 

[67Dart273]

So, a year later(ish) still have the ballast resistor issue and the car won't start...All other electrical issues are resolved...

Let's "start over" from here" Pretend this is a brand new thread and you are just starting.

1....What is it exactly you have for an ignition system?
2....What exactly have you done to test it?

One starting place is make CERTAIN that you have IGN1 "run" voltage with the key in "run" and that you also have IGN2 voltage to the system when cranking using the key. (and not jumpering the starter relay)

 

[gsoco]

Let's "start over" from here" Pretend this is a brand new thread and you are just starting.

1....What is it exactly you have for an ignition system?
2....What exactly have you done to test it?

One starting place is make CERTAIN that you have IGN1 "run" voltage with the key in "run" and that you also have IGN2 voltage to the system when cranking using the key. (and not jumpering the starter relay)

OK. I have a 1962 Valiant 170 cuin engine with a OEM distributor, points and rotor. I ha a new coil, plug wires, starter solenoid, ballast resistor, voltage regulator, alternator, battery and cables, engine-to- firewall ground strap, and carburetor. I have added a PCV to the crankcase ventilation replacing the down draft tube. Have new point, rotor, cap, condenser, wires and plugs.
Where should I measure voltages? Thanks!

 

[67Dart273]

Ok clip your meter to the coil + and ground, and turn the key to "run." You should see "not much less than say, 6v and not much more than 10 is with the battery pretty much fully charged at 12.6. Since you have points, if it reads full battery voltage, the points are likely open, so "bump" the starter until they are closed.


While you are taking this measurement it would not hurt to "shake" the harness and wiggle around the area of the bulkhead connector, looking at the meter for fluctuation which might indicate a bad connection somewhere.

Move your meter to the ballast the end withOUT the brown. This should be close to "same as battery."

Next, with meter back on coil + crank the engine using the key, and read meter while cranking. Should be "same as battery" when cranking and not below say 10, higher the better.

If this is OK I would check spark Always check a cranking test using the key, and not jumpering the starter relay as using the key gets the ballast bypass circuit into play

"Rig" a test gap right out of the coil, and use a solid core wire, not resistor. If you don't have HV wire, just use any low voltage wire and keep it away from metal. When cranking you should get a nice snappy blue spark at least 3/8" long and typically more like 1/2"

If the spark seems lame or voltage measurements are not reasonable, suspect an ignition component. Coils can go "weak" and still 'sort of run'. Condensers (capacitors) same deal, and modern replacement parts are iffy. Do you have a dwell meter? If so many of them have a points resistance test. Go through that, dwell, points resistance, and then timing last.

If all this is good I'd suspect something else..........

What condition is the engine in, good compression, etc?

How are the plugs / cap / rotor?

And how about fuel/ carburetion. Vapor lock/ fuel boil is a big problem with this damned alcolholized fuel

 

[67Dart273]

And now an annoying story from the old days.............Stationed at NAS Miramar 70-74. Before I bought the '70 I had a 69 383 RR 4 speed. At some point the thing started to get harder to start. It seemed to run OK, amazingly. This was all factory, so breaker point distributor.

A rare but mandatory full dress inspection happened. I was going to give a ride to 3 other guys over to inspection, AND THE DAMNED THING WOULD NOT START. We had to hoof it, and all of use were on the borderline "late." I think one guy got "written up." Yup Bad coil. Picked the opportune time to die, but it had been coming for a week or two.

This 63 327 SS I bought up here in N Idaho on leave, and drove to San Diego in May '70 I later traded it and some cash for the 69. Some guy had bought his teen son the 69 and the kid "had not done well" So the Dad was looking for something "slower". I have no photos of the 69

"Working" at our RADAR shop. It was way down the field about the 6000 ft mark away from "everybody." At the left, one of your service trucks, then a "shaker" Cuda I remember not his name. He was a friend of another guy. The the Olds? Poncho? of Nelson, worked with me and to right of that my black 64 Dodge 426. To right of that is friend's 68RR and to right of it is my Limelight 70 440-6. Boy I wish I still had it.

None of this is there anymore, the jarheads have poured concrete over it for more choppers LOL

 

[67Dart273]

Recent overhead Google maps shot. Our shop area is approximately where my mouse is pointing. The building at far left of photo is the TACAN building but I don't think it's used. FAA gives coordinates closer to control tower, so it's likely abandoned. This is part of runway 24R, the high speed taxiway N of it parallel to the runway. Tower is off to upper right out of photo.

 

[gsoco]

Wow...thanks...
Ok clip your meter to the coil + and ground, and turn the key to "run." You should see "not much less than say, 6v and not much more than 10 is with the battery pretty much fully charged at 12.6. Since you have points, if it reads full battery voltage, the points are likely open, so "bump" the starter until they are closed.

While you are taking this measurement it would not hurt to "shake" the harness and wiggle around the area of the bulkhead connector, looking at the meter for fluctuation which might indicate a bad connection somewhere.

Move your meter to the ballast the end withOUT the brown. This should be close to "same as battery."

Next, with meter back on coil + crank the engine using the key, and read meter while cranking. Should be "same as battery" when cranking and not below say 10, higher the better.

If this is OK I would check spark Always check a cranking test using the key, and not jumpering the starter relay as using the key gets the ballast bypass circuit into play

"Rig" a test gap right out of the coil, and use a solid core wire, not resistor. If you don't have HV wire, just use any low voltage wire and keep it away from metal. When cranking you should get a nice snappy blue spark at least 3/8" long and typically more like 1/2"

If the spark seems lame or voltage measurements are not reasonable, suspect an ignition component. Coils can go "weak" and still 'sort of run'. Condensers (capacitors) same deal, and modern replacement parts are iffy. Do you have a dwell meter? If so many of them have a points resistance test. Go through that, dwell, points resistance, and then timing last.

If all this is good I'd suspect something else..........

What condition is the engine in, good compression, etc?

How are the plugs / cap / rotor?

And how about fuel/ carburetion. Vapor lock/ fuel boil is a big problem with this damned alcolholized fuel[/QUOTE]

All done...Everything is new and voltages OK... Go it to cough, but not run... Will check compression today, but since it ran OK a month ago, I don't think that is an issue...might be the gas....

 

[gsoco]

Recent overhead Google maps shot. Our shop area is approximately where my mouse is pointing. The building at far left of photo is the TACAN building but I don't think it's used. FAA gives coordinates closer to control tower, so it's likely abandoned. This is part of runway 24R, the high speed taxiway N of it parallel to the runway. Tower is off to upper right out of photo.

View attachment 1715545215

 

[67Dart273]

All done...Everything is new and voltages OK... Go it to cough, but not run... Will check compression today, but since it ran OK a month ago, I don't think that is an issue...might be the gas....

So you do? or don't? have a good hot spark? If you do, yeh, likely fuel. How old is the fuel in the tank you think?