Any chance the arm got clocked wrong by a few degrees?
CLUTCH HELP
- Thread starter WAYNE0
- Start date
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WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
yep thats the way i have it
Daves69
Well-Known Member
Some more "out of the box" that may be of interest.......
www.forabodiesonly.com
Slant 6 Pedals/ clutch linkage swap
Got 5.2 Magnum /833 4 speed drivetrain in cant get clutch adjusted to release disc. I need a longer adjuster rod? Hopefully not wrong TO bearing...... Thanks in advance Dave
www.forabodiesonly.com
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
very interesting reading dint know there was a difference in pedal assembliesSome more "out of the box" that may be of interest.......
Slant 6 Pedals/ clutch linkage swap
Got 5.2 Magnum /833 4 speed drivetrain in cant get clutch adjusted to release disc. I need a longer adjuster rod? Hopefully not wrong TO bearing...... Thanks in advance Dave
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
Got it up on jack stands & cut a board to put between the clutch pedal & seat. Made the board long enough so that the pedal is about an inch away from the floor. Cant even get my thinnest feeler gauge between the disk & fly wheel or the clutch ist self. Thats all i got done so fare it was getting late. Just might have to pull the trany out. I am not looking forward to that.
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
Is it possible to unbolt the clutch pull it back to see what might be going on ? I would like to do what ever i can to fix the problem before taking the trany out.
Daves69
Well-Known Member
If you have a standard bell or a 3-piece Lakewood, I don't see why you couldn't. Things do get pretty tight in there. Not sure how much you'll be able to see.
By chance on the install, you didn't allow the weight of the trans to be held up by the disc hub maybe causing it to bend?
By chance on the install, you didn't allow the weight of the trans to be held up by the disc hub maybe causing it to bend?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
It's time to get really serious. Examine the movement of the linkage carefully, and this will require two people. Have someone slowly move the pedal "full range." Check for bending, flexing, movement of the bell/ engine on the mounts, bending of ANY part of the system, all the way from the fork to the Z bar, all of it. (I once had a Z bar tube crack and reduced movement)
If this looks OK, look at the linkage for leverage/ advantage. Realize that a lever system obtains maximum movement around an axis when the lever and the pushrod are at 90*. If you have some wrong link or Z bar etc you may have wrong angles and losing movement
If all this seems OK, there's only one thing left---pull the clutch, disk, and flywheel, and the TO bearing and go find a press you can use to test the movement. BE CAREFUL doing this
If this looks OK, look at the linkage for leverage/ advantage. Realize that a lever system obtains maximum movement around an axis when the lever and the pushrod are at 90*. If you have some wrong link or Z bar etc you may have wrong angles and losing movement
If all this seems OK, there's only one thing left---pull the clutch, disk, and flywheel, and the TO bearing and go find a press you can use to test the movement. BE CAREFUL doing this
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
ive had the Z bar & adjustment out a few times just to make that its all ok everything moves freely ive also put a board between the seat & pedal with the pedal about an inch from the floor. I wanted to see if there was any space between the clutch & disk also the flywheel. It is tight. Could it be that the clutch isnt being pushed in fare enough ? I have adjusted so you can just barely move the throw out bearing with your fingers.
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
just want to see if it releases the disk at all i dont think so it gave me alittle fight going in ive put them in before & it was about normal this problem is all new to me never heard of it
rikkitik
New Member
You mentioned;
"Now what i didnt mention is i have TTI headers and i had to move the arm on the Z bar that goes to the adjusting rod."
How, exactly, did you move it? Could you have lost travel if you cut, and rewelded?
Long style clutches (Ford) have a 4.5 to 1 lever ratio, Borg and Beck is close to 7.0 to 1 lever ratio, and diaphragms are a 10 to 1 lever ratio.
Mopars were built with Borg and Beck clutches in mind. When you install a diaphragm in a Mopar, you can "usually" get it to release, but as mentioned earlier, it can be kinda touchy. Because the linkage ratios are designed for a different pressure plate arm ratio, you also "usually" end up with a fairly narrow "engagement band" at the pedal.
"Now what i didnt mention is i have TTI headers and i had to move the arm on the Z bar that goes to the adjusting rod."
How, exactly, did you move it? Could you have lost travel if you cut, and rewelded?
Long style clutches (Ford) have a 4.5 to 1 lever ratio, Borg and Beck is close to 7.0 to 1 lever ratio, and diaphragms are a 10 to 1 lever ratio.
Mopars were built with Borg and Beck clutches in mind. When you install a diaphragm in a Mopar, you can "usually" get it to release, but as mentioned earlier, it can be kinda touchy. Because the linkage ratios are designed for a different pressure plate arm ratio, you also "usually" end up with a fairly narrow "engagement band" at the pedal.
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
I used a picture/ diagram that i was given to go by. Its suppose to be really close to the end of the Z bar but it didnt work for me. It hit the mini starter. So i cut it back off. I installed the Z bar hooked it all up including the adjustment rod. I held it in place & tack weld it. Took it all apart then welded it up. Not sure how guys are using the Z bars modified like TTI wants. It didnt line up with fork. Any ways mine has no clearance issues. I also made sure i didnt loose any length on that arm. So are you saying that the clutch fingers are not being pushed in fare enough ? I have heard of guys adding length to the clutch rod.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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The clutch disc has failed to quit spinning.
1) Are you sure you have enough clutch-plate departure.
2) are you sure the input shaft had room in the back of the 360 crank,
3) did you test-fit the input shaft into the installed and lubed pilot bushing.
It doesn't take much friction to keep the input turning, and if it doesn't stop, there is no way the brass synchronizer rings can match speeds to the parts on the mainshaft...... which are stationary........
Inertia
Well-Known Member
The first coupla z-bars I modified, I had to redo as well, - after the first dozen, I got good at it .
Good luck .
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WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
1 im not sure 2 i think so if it didnt would the input shaft even go in. it went in with not much trouble 3 no i didnt yes a little bearing grease
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
thanks
rikkitik
New Member
Yes, that is a possibility. If you cut the actuating arm, you can potentially loose travel (arc), and with a Mopar/diaphragm combination you barely have enough travel in the first place.
If anything, you would want to increase the length of the arm that pushes the adjustment rod. If you are able to get the T/O bearing against the fingers, you pretty much have the adjustment needed already. Lengthening the rod would not have any benefit. If your T/O bearing is touching the fingers, and you still don't have enough travel for "plate departure"/gap, there is something wrong with the "throw", someplace. If you have cut the arm and rewelded it, it's possible that you shortened it's "effective arc", the original length arm barely has enough arc in the first place
But, you can't really lengthen it arbitrarily either, if you do, the geometry will go wrong quickly.
Just mentioning it as a possibility.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
If "clocked" incorrectly, some one of the "end" travel becomes more up/down, insteada forward/back .
The fact you had to lengthen the pushrod concerns me, as I haven't altered one in a very long time, probably back when I had to redo them, lol !
Just don't overlook the obvious .
Good luck .
The fact you had to lengthen the pushrod concerns me, as I haven't altered one in a very long time, probably back when I had to redo them, lol !
Just don't overlook the obvious .
Good luck .
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WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
The arm that i altered i made sure it ended up the same length. When i had someone push the pedal in & me underneath the throw out bearing is pushing in on the fingers. Im just not sure that its pushing it in enough. I took all the bolts out that bolt the clutch to the flywheel today. I pushed the clutch back alittle not much because the bearing was hitting the trany. I could move the disk. Now here is 2 questions. Could the driveshaft be in the trany to fare ? When i bolt the clutch to the flywheel could it be pressing on the disk to much & if so could i put thin washers between the clutch & the flywheel behind the bolts ?
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Thats where the driveline should be unless you live in Hazzard County
Have you verified the clutch disc is not in backwards? After you've checked everything else, that's about the only thing left that could cause it.
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
Not sur how to do that but ive been told that if it was it wouldnt fit flush with the flywheel. How true dont know. Maybe someone here that has theirs apart can verify that. I wouldnt think the side of the disk that the springs stick out would fit into the flywheel. Im going to say i am 100 % that its in right. Ive done a few. Thats why this is so puzzling to me.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
Try adjusting the pushrod so that the throw out is pressing pretty good on the diaphragm, then see if it releases when the pedal is pressed? If it does, then something is causing the throw out to not travel far enough, if it doesn't then your clutch or PP is hosed.
Just what I'd do at this juncture..
Just what I'd do at this juncture..
It will fit backwards. I've done so many I cannot count and I've still installed a few backwards. Tired, not paying attention, distracted. It's easier to do than you might think.
WAYNE0
Well-Known Member
I had it adjusted so you could just barely turn the bearing with your fingers. I also had someone push the clutch in while i was underneath. It pushed the fingers in & the bearing was tight agents the fingers. My question is is it pushing them in enough.
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