Highest flowing sbm heads?

[pittsburghracer]

You can get a set of Edelbrocks into the high 280's or 290's with just a 2.02 valve from memory.

The problem with an Edelbrock head, Speedmaster, ProMaxx, and any other Edelbrock copied style head is they start out around 170 cc intake runner. After around 195 cc you run out of GOOD area to take material from. Several of the heads that were pushed much past this point without moving the pushrod raped the shortside which was already a piss poor design. You are really walking a tightrope because to shape it right you have to lower an already low area.

 

[ChargedDart75]

What about W5s? I can't remember what that flow and I know that they had some issues, but I think they are capable of good power from a stock block.

 

[pittsburghracer]

What about W5s? I can't remember what that flow and I know that they had some issues, but I think they are capable of good power from a stock block.

I think they were mainly talking about budget minded stock type rocker heads. W5’s were a nice head but not without issues. Come in Jay tell us some stories.

 

[Mean416]

Since your original question was for a stock block and not a race block, you're already pushing your luck if you're looking to make power in the 600 range.

I think this is not really proven.

 

[Mean416]

The problem here is when you want a higher flowing head your probably really getting into a bigger port which may or may not be good dependent on engine size and goal of the engines power. Also the components being used is another issue.

Even a cylinder head that flows 260-270’s is a powerful head but is often used in a heavy car and a slew of other things not well suited to allow the power to be released to show its potential.

What is the goal being sought?
What does the rest of the build look like?
Cam, compression, etc….

I think so along with a happy flow bench. Very

The problem here is when you want a higher flowing head your probably really getting into a bigger port which may or may not be good dependent on engine size and goal of the engines power. Also the components being used is another issue.

Even a cylinder head that flows 260-270’s is a powerful head but is often used in a heavy car and a slew of other things not well suited to allow the power to be released to show its potential.

What is the goal being sought?
What does the rest of the build look like?
Cam, compression, etc….

I think so along with a happy flow bench. Very happy.

I don't have an immediate goal perse. I do have a very nicely setup bottom end with a project that is stalled for awhile.

At this point just curious if there's any big flow heads out there that will work with a sbm, non race block. Doesn't look that way. This isn't a debate about what I should or shouldn't do, it's really just me wanting to learn more and see what options are out there.

 

[furrystump]

Big flow being 300+ cfm?

 

[gzig5]

I would think a set of Indy 360-1 or 360-2 should take care of anything a stock block can handle?

 

['68cuda416]

I don't have an immediate goal perse. I do have a very nicely setup bottom end with a project that is stalled for awhile.

At this point just curious if there's any big flow heads out there that will work with a sbm, non race block. Doesn't look that way. This isn't a debate about what I should or shouldn't do, it's really just me wanting to learn more and see what options are out there.

Well here is a quick lesson for ya....you can bolt on any of those big flowing big power capable heads on a stock block platform....for example W5 W8 W9 guess a person should include the Indy 360-1 and -2 stuff BUT you will have significant issues making it work with 59 degree block and the heads that are 48 degree and in general you will be grossly overpowering the reliability of a stock block platform if you try and even come close to full potential of these heads mentioned. Stock block you run upwards of 600 hp with good machine work and combo and tuning and keep your fingers crossed and if you want more than that you can easily obtain it but you are now into big boy deep water and will need to be utilizing a race block platform to use real cylinder heads, especially the W8'S and W9'S.....like I said before it comes down to what you can afford or what you are willing to spend and also your intentions.....you have stated none of those.

 

[Bobzilla]

I don't have an immediate goal perse. I do have a very nicely setup bottom end with a project that is stalled for awhile.

At this point just curious if there's any big flow heads out there that will work with a sbm, non race block. Doesn't look that way. This isn't a debate about what I should or shouldn't do, it's really just me wanting to learn more and see what options are out there.

Any head with a factory bolt pattern and valves small enough to fit your bore diameter can be used on your stock block. Indy 360, Mopar’s W2, W5, W7, W8 or W9, Edelbrock Victor, or anything else out there I don’t have a clue about. Choose a head and go. Of course, if you do any of these, let us know how it works in the real world.

The engine other’s have mentioned a few times in other threads that Valley Performance built used Edelbrock Victor heads on a Magnum 360 block. They will work.

 

['68cuda416]

I would think a set of Indy 360-1 or 360-2 should take care of anything a stock block can handle?

Yeah it would break one if the engine was built to true potential and not some pump gas compression and wimpy *** camshaft, LOL, but I get what your saying.

 

['68cuda416]

Any head with a factory bolt pattern and valves small enough to fit your bore diameter can be used on your stock block. Indy 360, Mopar’s W2, W5, W7, W8 or W9, Edelbrock Victor, or anything else out there I don’t have a clue about. Choose a head and go. Of course, if you do any of these, let us know how it works in the real world.

The engine other’s have mentioned a few times in other threads that Valley Performance built used Edelbrock Victor heads on a Magnum 360 block. They will work.

Yeah you can physically "make it work" but it was a waste of money because you can't reliably make the kind of power the heads can support and the block live.....plain and simple

 

[rumblefish360]

What about W5s? I can't remember what that flow and I know that they had some issues, but I think they are capable of good power from a stock block.

If you get a good set, numbers have appeared in the 330 area. Mine went 312 on a 4.125 bore. The head gage up the ghost and needed epoxy.

I don't have an immediate goal perse. I do have a very nicely setup bottom end with a project that is stalled for awhile.

At this point just curious if there's any big flow heads out there that will work with a sbm, non race block. Doesn't look that way. This isn't a debate about what I should or shouldn't do, it's really just me wanting to learn more and see what options are out there.

More than 300 cfm is big flow? OK, then in the right hands, any aluminum head and the W2 are capable.

I would think a set of Indy 360-1 or 360-2 should take care of anything a stock block can handle?

I agree.

 

[Hysteric]

The problem with an Edelbrock head, Speedmaster, ProMaxx, and any other Edelbrock copied style head is they start out around 170 cc intake runner. After around 195 cc you run out of GOOD area to take material from. Several of the heads that were pushed much past this point without moving the pushrod raped the shortside which was already a piss poor design. You are really walking a tightrope because to shape it right you have to lower an already low area.

The floor is very flat on my Edelbrocks which surprised me but they managed 288 cfm on a 10 " bench. In my view there's more than enough airflow available to make power but actually using it is another story. Dan Smith has a set of Eddies running 9's but says he prefers the 587's himself and looking at how his car runs has no problem using everything the head provides.

 

[pittsburghracer]

The floor is very flat on my Edelbrocks which surprised me but they managed 288 cfm on a 10 " bench. In my view there's more than enough airflow available to make power but actually using it is another story. Dan Smith has a set of Eddies running 9's but says he prefers the 587's himself and looking at how his car runs has no problem using everything the head provides.

I got rid of all my stock heads years ago for 50.00 as it was a bunch of mismatched take-offs. I was always afraid I would try to do something stupid and see what I could do with one. At that time I didn’t have a valve seat machine to do the needed work for free. (My labor). Several Mopar guys have great running engines with modified cast iron heads so we know it’s doable.

 

[Hysteric]

Several Mopar guys have great running engines with modified cast iron heads so we know it’s doable.

Its certainly doable but not very common. Seen some local SB 400+ cubers run anywhere between 10.50's with ported J's to high 9's with W9's in street cars.

 

[dusterdoug]

If you get a good set, numbers have appeared in the 330 area. Mine went 312 on a 4.125 bore. The head gage up the ghost and needed epoxy.

More than 300 cfm is big flow? OK, then in the right hands, any aluminum head and the W2 are capable.


I agree.

I would think a set of Indy 360-1 or 360-2 should take care of anything a stock block can handle?

Yep. Indy 360 heads go past 300 and will bolt up to your stock block.

 

[Nat]

there is more to running 10's or 9's than just engine , suspension chassis trans /converter all come into play 500hp without the rest will run 12-13 sec with the limited traction the wrong setup has

 

[B3422w5]

Its certainly doable but not very common. Seen some local SB 400+ cubers run anywhere between 10.50's with ported J's to high 9's with W9's in street cars.

Vic Bloomer has been mid 9’s in his 67 Barracuda with a stock stroke 340 and 1.92 valved iron heads
plenty of guys in the Mopar community have seen it do that .
he broke it a while back, finally back together again.

another note, the Bloomer heads he did, which I and several others have bought on here, have already been 6.08 at 112 on a 2920 pound car on gas and are under 12 to 1.
Mine was never intended to be a record setter, but with a couple of modest changes in the works, it will run very respectably as well.
another guy has been 132 with the heads at 3175 on pump gas.
so, definately another option. 2.08 valve, 200cc head, and very nice work.

 

[Hysteric]

there is more to running 10's or 9's than just engine , suspension chassis trans /converter all come into play 500hp without the rest will run 12-13 sec with the limited traction the wrong setup has

Even then they don't run what I'd consider fast for what they are.

 

[turbodart68]

Since your original question was for a stock block and not a race block, you're already pushing your luck if you're looking to make power in the 600 range.

don't I used their bigmouth heads and they do not flow 300+ Most i made with my 426 stroker was 537hp 560 tq which is plenty was able to roast the tires from 60mph , engine is in storage i added a girdle and better main caps for insurance , really for more power
go with a race block stock blocks are not made for 600+ hp God luck with your build

What about W5s? I can't remember what that flow and I know that they had some issues, but I think they are capable of good power from a stock block.

Yeah you can physically "make it work" but it was a waste of money because you can't reliably make the kind of power the heads can support and the block live.....plain and simple

I love these comments. I have a stock block that runs mid 8's at over 160 in a 3400 pound street car. It has made as much as 1200 at the wheels but its not very tested, it only has 120 runs on it and about 1500 street miles. Then there is my nitrous car that's 372" (14:1 compression) that makes 645 on the motor (flywheel) and I hit it with another 275 of nitrous. But again its not very tried, it only has 300 passes on it and is 17 years old. I must have missed the memo on blocks breaking.

If you can find a set of W5's I highly recommend them. I have been running them for years and will support an easy 700hp. You want the later blue pipe plug version. I think mine flowed 340 cfm intake side and they weren't ported all the way. We need to leave some meat for strength incase of backfires. I also recommend calling IMM engines because he is very knowledgeable about the small Mopar stuff. I have used him for years and his porting is excellent (not to mention his machine work) and he is honest and not super expensive.

 

[B3422w5]

I love these comments. I have a stock block that runs mid 8's at over 160 in a 3400 pound street car. It has made as much as 1200 at the wheels but its not very tested, it only has 120 runs on it and about 1500 street miles. Then there is my nitrous car that's 372" (14:1 compression) that makes 645 on the motor (flywheel) and I hit it with another 275 of nitrous. But again its not very tried, it only has 300 passes on it and is 17 years old. I must have missed the memo on blocks breaking.

If you can find a set of W5's I highly recommend them. I have been running them for years and will support an easy 700hp. You want the later blue pipe plug version. I think mine flowed 340 cfm intake side and they weren't ported all the way. We need to leave some meat for strength incase of backfires. I also recommend calling IMM engines because he is very knowledgeable about the small Mopar stuff. I have used him for years and his porting is excellent (not to mention his machine work) and he is honest and not super expensive.

W5’s are good heads, I ran them for years. Guy I sold the car to just texted me this weekend, went [email protected] at 3200+ pounds on super stock springs at Atco this past weekend.
That is an honest 700 horsepower. With that being said, I wouldnt say it is “easy” to do. That is a very well sorted out combo with excellent porting, agressive solid roller, gas ported 14 to 1 slugs, yada, yada. Quality machine work by Best machine.
Regards 340 cfm not even fully ported, benches are like dyno’s, very subjective. And the blue plug versions are indeed the latest numbers, but even they are poor castings that are prone to leak. Been there done that. Better than earlier versions, but still not good. Lots of variance from head to head as well.
Good design that suffered from poor casting quality unfortunately.
just my opinion, I ran them for a long time. And nobody any longer makes headers for them.
Would definately not be my first choice any longer for a build at that level, would use the Indy stuff, better choice at this point.

 

[Hysteric]

I love these comments. I have a stock block that runs mid 8's at over 160 in a 3400 pound street car. It has made as much as 1200 at the wheels but its not very tested, it only has 120 runs on it and about 1500 street miles. Then there is my nitrous car that's 372" (14:1 compression) that makes 645 on the motor (flywheel) and I hit it with another 275 of nitrous. But again its not very tried, it only has 300 passes on it and is 17 years old. I must have missed the memo on blocks breaking.

If you can find a set of W5's I highly recommend them. I have been running them for years and will support an easy 700hp. You want the later blue pipe plug version. I think mine flowed 340 cfm intake side and they weren't ported all the way. We need to leave some meat for strength incase of backfires. I also recommend calling IMM engines because he is very knowledgeable about the small Mopar stuff. I have used him for years and his porting is excellent (not to mention his machine work) and he is honest and not super expensive.

And there it is. Some guys have it figured out and are out there doing it.

Here's a thought what does detonation do to a short block while a piston is still on its way to TDC?

 

[Nat]

I love these comments. I have a stock block that runs mid 8's at over 160 in a 3400 pound street car. It has made as much as 1200 at the wheels but its not very tested, it only has 120 runs on it and about 1500 street miles. Then there is my nitrous car that's 372" (14:1 compression) that makes 645 on the motor (flywheel) and I hit it with another 275 of nitrous. But again its not very tried, it only has 300 passes on it and is 17 years old. I must have missed the memo on blocks breaking.

If you can find a set of W5's I highly recommend them. I have been running them for years and will support an easy 700hp. You want the later blue pipe plug version. I think mine flowed 340 cfm intake side and they weren't ported all the way. We need to leave some meat for strength incase of backfires. I also recommend calling IMM engines because he is very knowledgeable about the small Mopar stuff. I have used him for years and his porting is excellent (not to mention his machine work) and he is honest and not super expensive.

you're lucky I know guys tha smoked 3 packs a day lived to over 100 years old , then again seen a few stock blocks with 600 hp plus crack cylinders at my buddies shop . Like he says stock blocks are just not made for that level of power . Just because YOU got lucky does not make it a good idea for all . even at 540hp i consider my block lucky to survive 3 years of track and street use , built with better caps girdle molnar crank and rods

 

[Hysteric]

you're lucky I know guys tha smoked 3 packs a day lived to over 100 years old , then again seen a few stock blocks with 600 hp plus crack cylinders at my buddies shop . Like he says stock blocks are just not made for that level of power . Just because YOU got lucky does not make it a good idea for all . even at 540hp i consider my block lucky to survive 3 years of track and street use , built with better caps girdle molnar crank and rods

Some very smart people seem to be Lucky too many times.......

 

['68cuda416]

I love these comments. I have a stock block that runs mid 8's at over 160 in a 3400 pound street car. It has made as much as 1200 at the wheels but its not very tested, it only has 120 runs on it and about 1500 street miles. Then there is my nitrous car that's 372" (14:1 compression) that makes 645 on the motor (flywheel) and I hit it with another 275 of nitrous. But again its not very tried, it only has 300 passes on it and is 17 years old. I must have missed the memo on blocks breaking.

If you can find a set of W5's I highly recommend them. I have been running them for years and will support an easy 700hp. You want the later blue pipe plug version. I think mine flowed 340 cfm intake side and they weren't ported all the way. We need to leave some meat for strength incase of backfires. I also recommend calling IMM engines because he is very knowledgeable about the small Mopar stuff. I have used him for years and his porting is excellent (not to mention his machine work) and he is honest and not super expensive.

Happy for you that your as lucky as a ******* leprechaun......Nobody in their right mind would ever recommend a stock block for those type power levels and also your higher than Mt Everest for praising the W5's and is making me question anything you have to say because a wiser person would have said if you want to make big TROUBLE FREE POWER then you run some W8'S or W9's and if you are a gambler and don't mind owning a sprinkler system then give some W5's a shot. Brian at IMM is a very nice guy and very smart and good machinist but show me some big power builds he has done....seems to me most of what I see him posting about are 500-600 hp type stuff.