Cylinder bore is scratched up!

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Hopefully they marked it somehow so they won't think you're trying to switch some crap around on um. Not that you would, but unscrupulous sellers will look for any excuse. Lets hope that's not what you're dealing with. An $800 engine should be a damn FINE core at the least. .....and it's not.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Hopefully they marked it somehow so they won't think you're trying to switch some crap around on um. Not that you would, but unscrupulous sellers will look for any excuse. Lets hope that's not what you're dealing with. An $800 engine should be a damn FINE core at the least. .....and it's not.
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I agree, should be perfect. That would be wild if he tried that. I’m hoping since it was his, and sold out of his shop he takes full accountability, whether it’s the 800 or something equivalent. I lose a ton of time and effort no matter what, unless he really wants to make it right (doubt that).
 
ddart cart said:
Indeed. The guy has an insane car collection, and a 4x4/car fab shop heaven, so hopefully he is fair. It’s also insane that I am starting over on finding an engine. Ouch.
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it's happened to everybody. lucky that it's big ugly and right in your face. it could've been a hair line crack that didn't manifest itself or you didn't catch till you're several hundreds of dollars deep in machine work.

they made millions of these. trust that there's an affordable one kicking around out there for ya!
 
As bad as that is and the no money situation, it's kind of like what have you got to lose?

I had a '98 Plymouth Voyager 2.4 four cylinder that one hole was way worse than that. The saving grace was the nasty water pitting was below the upper 1" higher compression area of the cylinder.

Ran the piston down to the bottom, packed the upper ring area with grease. Went in with new red scotch bright pads and WD-40 by hand, broke the glaze and cleaned up the cylinder walls as best as can > mopping out with paper towels as things were progressing along.

A little back and forth with a bead hone would have been handy had I had one, here in Florida working with limited tools and no garage to work in.

Yeah it was a nasty hack, the rings bridged the low pit areas and it was still able to build compression on the top portion of the cylinder. The WD-40 helped to loosen the carbon around the rings to free them up, as another step to help build compression.

Put the used head back on with a new head gasket (old head gasket blew between 2 cylinders, ran like crap) put it all back together.

Fired it up and it instantly ran better now that the 4 cylinders were making compression again.

Drove it for a year, no smoke out the exhaust, engine still ran fine. Then got rid of it when my '89 D100 truck came along.

You would have never thought that engine would have survived as nasty as that cylinder was, but it did.

It served it's purpose and was a stepping stone to where things are now. Most people would have thrown in the towel.


20240131-143415.jpg


Worse than the engine, that '98 Voyager was an electronics nightmare, was glad to see that one go.

Flipped the Florida license plate over onto the Dodge Truck, so that helped moving into that next vehicle. Silver lining to the Cloud.

20250405_191216.jpg



☆☆☆☆☆
 
ddart cart said:
I got a couple more pics. Water sat in there for sure, the lines are horizontal to the ground. It definitely is acidic damage to the bore, it’s pitted. Everything else looks good as far as I can tell. Didn’t pull the pan yet.
The 70k engine plan (A) was reseal and convert to carb and roll by late May. The reason I paid $800 was for the millage, 1 owner, garage kept, synthetic oil for it’s life, show truck. I would have never bought it if I knew the cylinder bore was roasted. If you saw my cam thread you know I’m already at the edge of my ability.
I’m not sure how I will go forward, or if I can. Any ideas, input, and experiences are greatly appreciated. My first idea is find another short block, in terms of the cheapest resolve.
I’m also curious how it would run if I smoothed it out slightly, and what the repercussions are. I actually don’t like that idea, and I am very much the opposite of half assing anything, but money is a thing here. On the bright side, you guys are responding to my whoas and that’s fcking awesome. Big thanks! Wish I could return the favor lols.
View attachment 1716392292View attachment 1716392293
View attachment 1716392294
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Yeah..., i do some shady **** and i wouldn't run that.. honestly unless you love that motor for some reason i would hit marketplace and find another if money is that tight.. BTW.. get a $20 bore scope from amazon and take a look in the cyls if you look at another.
 
Did a some photo enhancement to get a better look at what is the extent of the corrosion in that cylinder wall.

20250414_060221.jpg


That "White Loop" in this picture appears to be the upper water line, like there was a cup of water sitting in there for some time.

These are 90° v8s, 45° on each bank.

That white loop water line is the upper water level where it sat in that 45° bank, hence the angled line of corrosion.

IMG_9729.jpeg


Pictures and the light reflections in the photos can be deceiving as to how bad it is.

Would get in there and clean that out a lot better to remove the optical distractions. So much so with some 180 git by hand on those bad areas, then follow up with WD-40 and the new red scotch bright pads to clean it all out.

Those red scotch brite pads are pretty sharp, will help to clean it out better.

Then take another look at it.


☆☆☆☆☆
 
Don't touch it. Don't do anything more to it.

Put it in the back of your truck, along with everything you took off of it, and bring it back to the shop that sold it to you, bring one of your larger buddies with you (or one of your wife's larger relatives, or rent an off-duty cop for "security" – NJ cops will work for food), bring the seller around and show it to him. Have your phone recorder on, but not obvious.
If he doesn't immediately say, "Crap, I had no idea, I'll [do something satisfactory]" then get him to acknowledge that he sold you an ostensibly working engine for $800, then use the recording in small claims court to get your money back, plus treble damages (as he is a business and sold goods fraudulently).

Don't put it off. You need to act as soon as you realize there is a problem.
And don't warn him, just show up.

disclaimer: I am not an attorney.

– Eric

edit: Not trying to push you into something, small claims court is a giant PIA, and collecting through the sheriff even moreso, and it may not be worth the $800 to you. That's fair, too.
 
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ddart cart said:
They said the truck ran awesome, It was pulled when I bought it for $800 with 70k on it.
Click to expand...
ddart cart said:
I could see the truck sitting right there inside the garage looking perfect, so it made sense at the time.
Click to expand...

So lemme get this straight:

You saw a nice-looking truck.

They told you that this engine came out of that truck.

You never saw the engine run.

You never saw the engine being pulled out of the truck.

Is that correct?

Did you get a bill of sale?
Did the bill of sale have the VIN, from the engine on it?
Did the bill of sale say "Running Condition"?
Did you compare the VIN on the truck to the VIN on the block?

These are all life lessons for all of us.

You should never buy a part that's known to have a VIN (like a modern engine block) without a bill of sale specifying the VIN.
Any "shop" could also be a chop shop (dare I say, especially in NJ?), and you want paper in case the Law comes after you for receiving stolen goods.

Also, in this case, since he is an ongoing automotive business, the NJ Attorney General's office might be interested if he's selling parts with VINs out the back door without bills of sale – it's a red flag.

Bottom line: NEVER trust anyone selling you anything automotive ever.
Always confirm whatever anyone tells you, even if it seems obvious.
If it's for an insignificant amount of money, then no big deal, but if it's enough to make a dent, then you can't take people's word for anything.

We've all been burned once or twice. It's how we learn.

Also, you're in NJ, that engine was low mileage but had water laying in a cylinder for a long time, therefore: Flood damage. Vehicle was probably salvaged.

– Eric
 
MDchanic said:
So lemme get this straight:

You saw a nice-looking truck.

They told you that this engine came out of that truck.

You never saw the engine run.

You never saw the engine being pulled out of the truck.

Is that correct?

Did you get a bill of sale?
Did the bill of sale have the VIN, from the engine on it?
Did the bill of sale say "Running Condition"?
Did you compare the VIN on the truck to the VIN on the block?



– Eric
Click to expand...
The last engine swap I did was 30 years ago, and I did my absolute best to make the right choice on this purchase without getting fcked.
Water sat in one cylinder from a head gasket fail. Either way, someone had to know about it.
The ad is still up for the rest of the drivetrain:
Monroe Township, Middlesex County, New Jersey
IMG_9731.jpeg
IMG_9732.jpeg
 
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MDchanic said:
Don't touch it. Don't do anything more to it.

Put it in the back of your truck, along with

Don't put it off. You need to act as soon as you realize there is a problem.
And don't warn him, just show up.

disclaimer: I am not an attorney.

– Eric

edit: Not trying to push you into something, small claims court is a giant PIA, and collecting through the sheriff even moreso, and it may not be worth the $800 to you. That's fair, too.
Click to expand...
I will be making a move today. Getting the engine into my 4runner with the deadly temu hoist my landlord has is probably not ideal, but I can get a uhaul trailer cheap. His employee , who posted the ad, delivered it, dumped it on the ground, and tumbled it into the garage, while I was getting plywood (soft ground) to avoid exactly that! I got crushed by the hoist when it dumped, and some kind of miracle happened where I didn’t get mamed.
 
Until I saw your last picture I was going to say that a couple of light strokes with a cylinder hone is the best way for me to read a cylinder wall............but unfortunately that bore doesn't look salvageable with pits that deep.

One suggestion on scotchbrite - I never use it on internal engine surfaces unless it can be thoroughly flushed. It leaves way too much easily embedded abrasive residue.
 
440 Mike said:
Until I saw your last picture I was going to say that a couple of light strokes with a cylinder hone is the best way for me to read a cylinder wall............but unfortunately that bore doesn't look salvageable with pits that deep.

One suggestion on scotchbrite - I never use it on internal engine surfaces unless it can be thoroughly flushed. It leaves way too much easily embedded abrasive residue.
Click to expand...
The surface is very uneven below the water line, and the water line(s) are deeper and pitted. It’s worse than it looks, when you touch it. I don’t want to use it anymore since repairing it will cost more than finding one that isn’t toasted.
 
I called. Brandon is away on business. Sounds like a call filter move, idk.
I spoke to next in charge, he was in disbelief, saying he just drove the truck for 2 months without issue! I did ask how nobody spotted white on the dip stick. He gave me his cell to send the pics. I included the ones of white oil puddles in the valley and heads.

With their vast resources, I told him I’m not making any demands, but I am seeking a solution.

Waiting to hear back.
 
I had to call back. Brandon the owner is not in the country, for an unknown amount of time apparently. Mike who is in charge of the situation now, is still in disbelief after seeing the same pictures that we saw. He offered me $200, and said he was looking at a couple junkyards. He can’t make much of a call beyond that without talking to Brandon. I told him even if they gave my 800 back, I still lose, so 200 is a no go. Mike said he will try to reach Brandon.
Wow, this is some kick in the balls. At least my cam snout arrives tonight lol.
 
MDchanic said:
Don't touch it. Don't do anything more to it.

Put it in the back of your truck, along with everything you took off of it, and bring it back to the shop that sold it to you, bring one of your larger buddies with you (or one of your wife's larger relatives, or rent an off-duty cop for "security" – NJ cops will work for food), bring the seller around and show it to him. Have your phone recorder on, but not obvious.
If he doesn't immediately say, "Crap, I had no idea, I'll [do something satisfactory]" then get him to acknowledge that he sold you an ostensibly working engine for $800, then use the recording in small claims court to get your money back, plus treble damages (as he is a business and sold goods fraudulently).

Don't put it off. You need to act as soon as you realize there is a problem.
And don't warn him, just show up.

disclaimer: I am not an attorney.

– Eric

edit: Not trying to push you into something, small claims court is a giant PIA, and collecting through the sheriff even moreso, and it may not be worth the $800 to you. That's fair, too.
Click to expand...
I agree with this^^^^^I'd leave it AS IS until the seller can see it AS IS.
 
ddart cart said:
I had to call back. Brandon the owner is not in the country, for an unknown amount of time apparently. Mike who is in charge of the situation now, is still in disbelief after seeing the same pictures that we saw. He offered me $200, and said he was looking at a couple junkyards. He can’t make much of a call beyond that without talking to Brandon. I told him even if they gave my 800 back, I still lose, so 200 is a no go. Mike said he will try to reach Brandon.
Wow, this is some kick in the balls. At least my cam snout arrives tonight lol.
Click to expand...
Well, that's something at least. I mean he didn't just slam the door. I think maybe he just offered what he could while the owner is away. I'd give um a chance to see what the owner will do. Now that said, $200 will likely pay for most, if not all of having a sleeve put in. Just something to think about.
 

This is the classic switcheroo.

They can play this for months, maybe years.

The hard twig breaks. The soft pliable twig just bends.
They suddenly become mush. Nobody knows anything. Nobody is responsible. Nobody has the power to make a decision.
This is why the dealing in the NY area can become "aggressive." Nobody will get anywhere unless they have some sort of power they can bring to bear.
If you don't have an in with someone – cops, lawyers, muscle, a rabbi – you can't get the upper hand.

– Eric
 
I called a good local machine shop, he said 300 total to sleeve it, but it usually knocks the next cylinder out of round, and it snowballs.
I won’t touch it, until the owner makes his decision, but I also won’t be strung along.
Hopefully this isn’t the old switcheroo, because it does sound like it.
 
ddart cart said:
I called a good local machine shop, he said 300 total to sleeve it, but it usually knocks the next cylinder out of round, and it snowballs.
I won’t touch it, until the owner makes his decision, but I also won’t be strung along.
Hopefully this isn’t the old switcheroo, because it does sound like it.
Click to expand...
He's right, too. That's why you sleeve first, then check the two adjacent cylinders so that you can figure what their bore needs to be and proceed from there. Hopefully, you get this resolved to your satisfaction.
 
I don’t mean any disrespect but I very rarely buy anything from the upper Northeast area .
Been burned way too much from the region.

That engine is pure crap,,,,and someone knew it ahead of time !
Look how bad the intake valve for that cylinder is rusted in the pic !
800 bucks was way too much to start with,,,unless the engine was perfect .

Tommy
 
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