rear sway bar recommendations

[72bluNblu]

Now I know its BS . The stock LOW RENT **** as you call it. They never had end links on coil spring SWAY BARS. So you never did installed any, Just another made up story. Making your self the hero to make someone look wrong. You really need to stop trolling others with the BS.

Is this thread about Chevy’s now? Who cares?

A friend of mine has those over sized bars on his Cuda. You need some real sticky soft tires to make it work in a turn. Otherwise it just unhooks throttling out like a drifter.

Never had that issue with my 1.12” bars and modern radial tires. And while my 200 trade wear tires are soft for street tires, they’re still just DOT legal street tires. No where near race tires.

Sounds like your buddy with the Cuda needs to actually set up his suspension and run some decent tires if he can’t hook it up with “over sized bars”.

894, 895 big block bars and the standard stabilizer bar with a small block and a good radial tire always worked and rode the best for me on the street on my a-bodies. And the body could handle those rates

lol! I ran 1” bars on my Duster for a very short while, with a small block, and even just running baby 225/60/15 tires on all 4 corners those modern radials were more than enough for the 1” bars. Tons of body roll, very soft ride, still bottoming the suspension even with factory levels of suspension travel. Worse handling than a basic Honda civic commuter, and with bars larger than anything Ma Mopar saw fit to put on these cars at the factory.

A car with good tires and 894/895 bars will still be massively undersprung even just on the street, a sloppy, body rolling mess.

Once you put soft tires on for road racing then go stiffer on the suspension on a street car, It plays hell on the unibody with no added front rail supports or frame ties. Your putting a lot of stress on the tin box that they are not made for. Just something I would consider. Make the car body handle the stress you will be throwing at it . and get a good z rated tire for the street. Make it as stiff as you want. Like my sons 3500 with 5500 springs . Enjoy the ride its yours .

Lol! I’ve been running the 1.12” bars, with a 300 lb/in rate on the street for over a DECADE now. With 200 tread wear tires most of that time. The unibody handles it just fine.

The car doesn’t ride any stiffer than a modern sports car.

With the latest set of Falken RT660+’s on the Duster I’m going to go to 1.18” bars and 142 lb/rear springs over the winter. And we’re not even talking race tires yet, just DOT legal stuff.

Clearly you’re not familiar with the capabilities of the tires that are being made in the last 30 years, let alone the last 5 or 10.

But thank you for confirming beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Duster I commute to work in handles better than any A-body you’ve ever built or driven!

 

[MopaR&D]

Must... resist... old boomer jokes... Arghh

 

[ir3333]

and then there is the old panhard bar. What are you guys calling understeer?

 

[72bluNblu]

and then there is the old panhard bar. What are you guys calling understeer?

Understeer is when you turn the front but keep going straight (or turn less than your input). Oversteer is when you turn the front and the back end steps out (rear wheel drift).

Typically, factory cars are set up for understeer because an unskilled driver typically can correct understeer just by doing what your typical reaction is- you lift off the throttle and the car starts to turn.

 

[72dustervs]

I appreciate all the feed back , I have an idea now of what I want to do after I retire first of the year and money set back

 

[72dustervs]

Does anyone know if the bilstien shocks got the bushings correct on rear shocks , had a few saying on some threads the inconsistency of bushings being wrong size ?

 

[abodyjoe]

Does anyone know if the bilstien shocks got the bushings correct on rear shocks , had a few saying on some threads the inconsistency of bushings being wrong size ?

i put bilstien shocks on our dart last year and the bushings were fine. bought the from pete at @BergmanAutoCraft


so our dart is running 1.08 torsion bars with a hellwig front bar and eaton rear springs that are 130 pound if i recall and bilstien shocks all the way around. i run a 225/60-15 tore all the way around and an aggressive alignment. also have a borgenson steering box. car feels great out on the road. very stable and much like a modern car. always wanted to see what a rear bar would do on it but honestly it feels great for anything I'm going to do with the car.

 

[matthon]

Does anyone know if the bilstien shocks got the bushings correct on rear shocks , had a few saying on some threads the inconsistency of bushings being wrong size ?

Post in thread 'Shock recommendations for a 1968 Barracuda fastback' Shock recommendations for a 1968 Barracuda fastback

 

[mbaird]

Bilstein doesn’t show a shock for A bodies . What is Kantor selling if Bilstein show no part for that application?

 

[72bluNblu]

Bilstein doesn’t show a shock for A bodies . What is Kantor selling if Bilstein show no part for that application?

It’s a Bilstein shock body that RCD takes and re-valves/modifies. The part number is RCD not Bilstein

From RCD for A-bodies-
—-
Here are the dimensions of the shocks to help you make the right choice for your vehicle.

For non lowered we suggest
Front 55-R082 (10.5 col / 14.11 ext)
Rear 55-R208 (14 col / 22.7 ext)

Lowered
Front 55-R081 (9.05 col / 14.11 ext)
Rear 55-R349 (13.11 col / 20.32 ext)
---

 

[matthon]

Fyi, PST doesn't do the 10% off for members anymore, unless you pay up front and jump through hoops, I hear.

Kanter gives 15% off your first order, but not on those shocks.

I signed up for the 15% and found out.

 

[72dustervs]

It’s a Bilstein shock body that RCD takes and re-valves/modifies. The part number is RCD not Bilstein

From RCD for A-bodies-
—-
Here are the dimensions of the shocks to help you make the right choice for your vehicle.

For non lowered we suggest
Front 55-R082 (10.5 col / 14.11 ext)
Rear 55-R208 (14 col / 22.7 ext)

Lowered
Front 55-R081 (9.05 col / 14.11 ext)
Rear 55-R349 (13.11 col / 20.32 ext)
---

RCD on there site shows that 1946-1948 Dodge Deluxe Front Shocks :: Part No. 55-R208 , I thought the rear were 55-R092 for A-body ?​

 

[abodyjoe]

Bilstein doesn’t show a shock for A bodies . What is Kantor selling if Bilstein show no part for that application?

go to @BergmanAutoCraft he sells abody ones. Home - Bergman Auto Craft - Home of Quality Muscle Car Parts

 

[RustyRatRod]

I used the cheap Addco bars, because of our budget constraints. I got one from a member here and the other from Summit. Their mounting hardware is for crap (on the front), but I used some universal mounts from Energy Suspension. Worked out really nice and I still have less than Helwig or some such. Not saying the high end ones aren't nice. They certainly are. But I gotta do what I gotta do.

 

[abodyjoe]

Front: Bilstein Shocks - Front - A Mopar Body - Bergman Auto Craft
Rear: Bilstein Shocks - Mopar - A Body Rear - Bergman Auto Craft

 

[72bluNblu]

RCD on there site shows that 1946-1948 Dodge Deluxe Front Shocks :: Part No. 55-R208 , I thought the rear were 55-R092 for A-body ?​

They recently changed the part numbers. Not sure why, but those numbers were from RCD themselves.

go to @BergmanAutoCraft he sells abody ones. Home - Bergman Auto Craft - Home of Quality Muscle Car Parts

Exactly!

I used the cheap Addco bars, because of our budget constraints. I got one from a member here and the other from Summit. Their mounting hardware is for crap (on the front), but I used some universal mounts from Energy Suspension. Worked out really nice and I still have less than Helwig or some such. Not saying the high end ones aren't nice. They certainly are. But I gotta do what I gotta do.

Sway bars are pretty simple! I'm sure the Addco's work just fine, the biggest shortfalls for those seems to be the mounting hardware, which is pretty much useless, and the fact that they're not adjustable in any way. The rear Hellwig's have 3 different positions which allows you to adjust the torsional rate you get from them. Just using an online calculator and some rough measurements the E-body Hellwig rear sway bar adjusts from about 130 lb/in up to about 195 lb/in depending on which end link position you use. Again, just really rough numbers but it gives you an idea of how you could use the 3 different positions to tune your rear wheel rate.

 

[RustyRatRod]

They recently changed the part numbers. Not sure why, but those numbers were from RCD themselves.



Exactly!



Sway bars are pretty simple! I'm sure the Addco's work just fine, the biggest shortfalls for those seems to be the mounting hardware, which is pretty much useless, and the fact that they're not adjustable in any way. The rear Hellwig's have 3 different positions which allows you to adjust the torsional rate you get from them. Just using an online calculator and some rough measurements the E-body Hellwig rear sway bar adjusts from about 130 lb/in up to about 195 lb/in depending on which end link position you use. Again, just really rough numbers but it gives you an idea of how you could use the 3 different positions to tune your rear wheel rate.

I was happy with the hardware for the rear. The only thing I changed was to weld two 1/4" steel plates on the frame rails where the end links attach. I had read somewhere on here that the it was possible for the U bolts to pull through the frame rail. Not this white boy. Maybe you can see the plate the end link bracket is mounted to. I sprayed it all with undercoating.

 

[mbaird]

Front: Bilstein Shocks - Front - A Mopar Body - Bergman Auto Craft
Rear: Bilstein Shocks - Mopar - A Body Rear - Bergman Auto Craft

I saw those but curious why Bilstein doesn’t list them on their site . Just want to make sure they aren’t knock offs .

 

[72bluNblu]

I saw those but curious why Bilstein doesn’t list them on their site . Just want to make sure they aren’t knock offs .

They’re RCD Bilsteins. Bilstein has never listed them on their website. You can find them at the RCD website

Race Car Dynamics – racecardynamics

Or from Peter @BergmanAutoCraft

Or Firmfeel

Or PST/Kantor

 

[abodyjoe]

I saw those but curious why Bilstein doesn’t list them on their site . Just want to make sure they aren’t knock offs .

not knockoffs from pete.

 

[abodyjoe]

https://racecardynamics.com/pages/product-result?rq=yr_1970~mk_dodge~md_dart

 

[RustyRatRod]

not knockoffs from pete.

Naw and if they were he'd tell you.....plus they'd be decent knock offs. lol

 

[Mattax]

For street driving if you aren't pushing it to the limit a rear bar will still make the car feel more nimble and "pivot" around corners more than "push through" like they do without it.

Until the dynamics are just right to start the tank slappers on a downhill curve.
Been there and done that. There's no saving it on a downhill - around it will go...

I'm not saying one can't use rear anti-sway bars, but I am saying they are an easy way to get in trouble when the stakes are unforgiving. They have to be a part of the whole package. Best to do them last when starting from unknown. Way to many unknowns in this case.

Understeer is when you turn the front but keep going straight (or turn less than your input). Oversteer is when you turn the front and the back end steps out (rear wheel drift).

I'll quibble with this.
Turn is always less than input due to the slip angles of the tires.

Now do get a membership the Petty fight club?

 

[Mattax]

One of my favorite photos illustrating oversteer.
Both cars were limited to factory suspension (class rules), but the rear tires of 23 are nearly flat resulting in the oversteer seen. In autocross, understeer is often driver induced (turning too late, entering too hard, etc.)

 

[72bluNblu]

Until the dynamics are just right to start the tank slappers on a downhill curve.
Been there and done that. There's no saving it on a downhill - around it will go...

I'm not saying one can't use rear anti-sway bars, but I am saying they are an easy way to get in trouble when the stakes are unforgiving. They have to be a part of the whole package. Best to do them last when starting from unknown. Way to many unknowns in this case.


I'll quibble with this.
Turn is always less than input due to the slip angles of the tires.

Now do get a membership the Petty fight club?

Lol! Yes, that's correct, I maybe oversimplified a bit too much.

One of my favorite photos illustrating oversteer.
Both cars were limited to factory suspension (class rules), but the rear tires of 23 are nearly flat resulting in the oversteer seen. In autocross, understeer is often driver induced (turning too late, entering too hard, etc.)
View attachment 1716472451

Woohoo!!!

Man look at all that body roll! The car on the inside is just about ready to pick up that front inside tire.