Stock 360 Upgrades for Crusher Cuda?

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yellow rose said:
I don’t know what the 051 head is, but if it’s an open chamber the piston needs to come out of the deck. I’m not a fan of milling a bunch off the heads. It makes gasket sealing tough.

Also, 10:1 compression ratio is a good starting point. Don’t buy an off the shelf cam. Don’t buy an off the shelf computer. Buy a Holley clone that is a double pumper and learn to tune it. You have enough gear to run a Strip Dominator or an M1. Do it

Your biggest issue will be headers. There ain’t a header worth a single crap out there for that chassis. Not one. I haven’t seen an off the shelf header that wasn’t 40 HP or more off a decent header.

My last race car was a 64 Barracuda. I made 2 sets of headers for it, and paid a guy to make the last set. Of course, I had a lift off fiberglass front end and no inner fenders so I had some room.

If you have the option of using a 67-75 or 76 A body, I’d use it just so I could buy headers.

And I love the early A’s. They just don’t have any room.
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Hey Yellow Rose,

Have you seen these from TTI ? Specifically made for this chassis. With your tech expertise I'd like your opinion as I'm considering a similar project with an early a-body convertible.



header #636A

63-66 A-BODY 1-5/8" x 1-3/4" SMALL BLOCK STEP HEADERS

TTI636A_small.jpg
zoom.jpg


FEATURES

Design: 63-66 A-body chassis

Primary tube size: 1-5/8" O.D.

Secondary tube size: 1-3/4" O.D.

Collector size: 3" with 3" 3-bolt flange.

Flanges: 3/8" thick, laser-cut, contoured for a leak free fit.

Material: Constructed of 16 gauge mild steel tubing. Mandrel bent on sophisticated computer controlled bending machines for precise fit and uninterrupted exhaust flow. The mandrel bending process maintains a constant inside diameter of the tube for a smoother finish with no restriction of flow and no crimping of the tubes.

Step design: Provides low-end response and top-end horsepower gain.

One piece design: One piece header tubes / No slip tubes.

Under chassis design: Above the steering center link design offers maximum header to ground clearance.

Full length header design: Proven power gain vs. shorty design.

Recommended for: 320-575 horsepower.

Header set includes: Header gaskets, 12 header bolts, header reducer adapters with 3-bolt



pic4.jpg
 
CrusherCuda said:
I was under the impression that the "Spitfire" headers were just a different layout without collector and that they dump over the torsion bars. It appeared that it took some tinkering, but once you were past the torsion bars, it was all clear. And they worked with the aftermarket 340/360 engine mounts and manual steering.
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Whoops, you caught me in a senior brainfart moment! I was thinking of the Hookers...
There's a nice sticky on the Spitfires-
Updated SPITFIRE HEADER INSTALL 63-66 A-body | For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum
 
Professor Fate said:
Well, you'll never get into the 12s with the stock 273 manifold. Maybe with some Magnum or 340 manifolds if you can get them snuck into the early A. Layson's (Spitfire) headers are fenderwell, and I thought that you didn't want to cut your inner fenders. There's a thread on here somewhere about modifying the #1 tube on Hedman's shorty headers for later As so they fit an early A- I'll see if I can dig it up.
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The spitfire is not a fenderwell
 
AAndrews said:
Hey Yellow Rose,

Have you seen these from TTI ? Specifically made for this chassis. With your tech expertise I'd like your opinion as I'm considering a similar project with an early a-body convertible.



header #636A

63-66 A-BODY 1-5/8" x 1-3/4" SMALL BLOCK STEP HEADERS

View attachment 1715746907View attachment 1715746908

FEATURES

Design: 63-66 A-body chassis

Primary tube size: 1-5/8" O.D.

Secondary tube size: 1-3/4" O.D.

Collector size: 3" with 3" 3-bolt flange.

Flanges: 3/8" thick, laser-cut, contoured for a leak free fit.

Material: Constructed of 16 gauge mild steel tubing. Mandrel bent on sophisticated computer controlled bending machines for precise fit and uninterrupted exhaust flow. The mandrel bending process maintains a constant inside diameter of the tube for a smoother finish with no restriction of flow and no crimping of the tubes.

Step design: Provides low-end response and top-end horsepower gain.

One piece design: One piece header tubes / No slip tubes.

Under chassis design: Above the steering center link design offers maximum header to ground clearance.

Full length header design: Proven power gain vs. shorty design.

Recommended for: 320-575 horsepower.

Header set includes: Header gaskets, 12 header bolts, header reducer adapters with 3-bolt



View attachment 1715746909
Click to expand...
I really like the TTI headers, but a lot of people have commented on other posts about how bad they fit. These are in my price range uncoated, and I believe would flow better than the "Spitfires". I'm not an expert. Just my observation. I hate to spend $720+ and have to beat them and heat them.
 
CrusherCuda said:
I really like the TTI headers, but a lot of people have commented on other posts about how bad they fit. These are in my price range uncoated, and I believe would flow better than the "Spitfires". I'm not an expert. Just my observation. I hate to spend $720+ and have to beat them and heat them.
Click to expand...

I haven't heard much about installing these TTI headers being difficult although I am very interested to hear any comments on here about them. I'm planning an early A Body build and this stuff would be good to know when planning powertrain. I'm using TTI in my present car and the install was a breeze!
 
AAndrews said:
I haven't heard much about installing these TTI headers being difficult although I am very interested to hear any comments on here about them. I'm planning an early A Body build and this stuff would be good to know when planning powertrain. I'm using TTI in my present car and the install was a breeze!
Click to expand...

we installed the TTI headers on my brothers 66 Dart.
It was very difficult to do.
 
496 polara said:
If you have access to one of the old Mopar performance speed books they did a good job of spelling out what it took to get a certain et.
That being said KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) works for me.
Mopar (or the like) electronic ignition conversion kit is fine.
Cam: you will get a million suggestions.Just remember the cam needs to work with the compression/intake/heads/exhaust YOU have.Something in the high teens or low 220's @ .050
I would suggest a dual plane intake like a performer or performer rpm.Hood clearance you will have to check.
I think a well tuned 650 double pumper is plenty but many run a 750 vacuum secondary with no ill effects.
Don't go crazy with long duration cams,single plane intakes and such as that low stall torque converter won't play nice with them.
Build for torque IMO.
Click to expand...

I need to fix this. I have been told before but have not yet done it.
The print is small and blurry but you should get the idea ….
“Speed Tips” from MP/DC Hustle Stuff

CrusherCuda said:
I really like the TTI headers, but a lot of people have commented on other posts about how bad they fit. These are in my price range uncoated, and I believe would flow better than the "Spitfires". I'm not an expert. Just my observation. I hate to spend $720+ and have to beat them and heat them.
Click to expand...
I had to make one small dent at the manual steering box. This may have been in part that the bolts up top on the steering box where not stock. I ground the head down which made for a smaller denting of the pipe.

I found the driver side #7 pipe a huge PIA. Now that I have done it, it has become easier the second and third time around. Just snake the pipe up and with a rubber mallet, drive the pipe into the collector until seated. That’s when the header flange lines up and meets the head, but not until then.
 
B3422w5 said:
we installed the TTI headers on my brothers 66 Dart.
It was very difficult to do.
Click to expand...
It was my understanding that the TTI Headers do not play well with the aftermarket 340/360 conversion mounts, you must run a mini starter, and the torsion bars must be removed and reinstalled thru the headers. I have also heard they are tight to the steering and inner fenders. Specifically for 66' and earlier A-bodies. Please set me straight if someone has other experiences with these headers.
 
I don’t have an early A body. Removal of the T-bars was t needed. But I would say it would make life a lot easier!
I’ll go that route next time around.
Conversion mounts should not cause a problem. I haven’t been there and done that myself with the conversion mounts but also don’t remember any complaints when the engine is sitting correctly.
 
CrusherCuda said:
It was my understanding that the TTI Headers do not play well with the aftermarket 340/360 conversion mounts, you must run a mini starter, and the torsion bars must be removed and reinstalled thru the headers. I have also heard they are tight to the steering and inner fenders. Specifically for 66' and earlier A-bodies. Please set me straight if someone has other experiences with these headers.
Click to expand...
I would think you would be better with Dougs on an early A after all they were installed when the early A was new.
 
318willrun said:
whoa whoa WHOA on the first part I quoted!!!!. LOL :D Pistons do not NEED to come out of the deck nor does one need 10 to 1 compression to run 12.9's in a A-body with a 360. And, a cheapo off the shelf cam will get him his goal also. Your way would optimize the build and isn't wrong, just not necessary to reach his goal.

You are correct on the 2nd part I quoted about the headers. Although, even a bad header will be enough to meet his goals.
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I didn’t say that he needed it to run 12.9XX. I said it because there isn’t any reason to run less compression than that. Getting the piston out of the hole is to gain compression is better than decking the crap out of the heads.

A junk off the shelf cam will certainly give up drivability. That’s a fact.

Bad headers suck.


I’m not just about reaching a goal. I’m about optimizing whatever you are doing. A good cam costs the same as the crap shelf cam. Getting the compression ratio to 10:1 makes the engine run cleaner. You lose some pumping losses. And less than 10:1 in this day and age is just kind of silly. Even a novice tuner can handle 10:1 on pump gas IF they plan for it.

That’s why I posted what I did.
 
B3422w5 said:
we installed the TTI headers on my brothers 66 Dart.
It was very difficult to do.
Click to expand...


That’s not surprising. There is just no room for much. My question is once you had them on, could you get to all the plugs without being Gumby? And how do they fit now that they are on? Did you have to beat the crap out of them?

TIA
YR
 
I had TTI's in my 65 Barracuda 360 with a 4 speed. They were not beat in or beat up to install, yes I used a mini starter.
 
yellow rose said:
That’s not surprising. There is just no room for much. My question is once you had them on, could you get to all the plugs without being Gumby? And how do they fit now that they are on? Did you have to beat the crap out of them?

TIA
YR
Click to expand...

they aren't a great option. Has issues going click to click on the steering..but part of that is his front tires. Tight everywhere. Forget about plugs without looking
 
CrusherCuda said:
It was my understanding that the TTI Headers do not play well with the aftermarket 340/360 conversion mounts, you must run a mini starter, and the torsion bars must be removed and reinstalled thru the headers. I have also heard they are tight to the steering and inner fenders. Specifically for 66' and earlier A-bodies. Please set me straight if someone has other experiences with these headers.
Click to expand...

you have it right.
Pre 67 A bodies arent very friendly to hop up without cutting the hell out of them.
Would never own one for that reason
 
CrusherCuda said:
I have looked around the forum trying to find a good recipe for my 360 and haven't found what I'm looking for. Not only am I new to Mopar's, but also new to 1/4 mile drag racing. So, I was hoping someone out there had already built what I want to do or someone has good suggestions for the the build.

I have a stock 2bbl 360 and 727 out of a 1972 Dodge Polara. At some point the heads were swapped for 051 reman heads. My rear axle is a 1969, 8 3/4, 3.91 ratio Sure Grip. This will be installed in a 1966 Barracuda with no interior and maybe a simple roll bar. Manual steering, manual disc brakes, no AC. I would like to go 14.00 to 12.90 in the quarter mile. I want to keep the bottom end, heads, pushrods, and rockers stock. I was told not to go over a .500 lift cam. I will be running headers. I will gasket match the ports and maybe open up the bowls on the 051 heads. I would like to drive it on the street, maybe do drag week, but more concerned with meeting my track time goals. I don't care about fuel economy. In the future I may upgrade the heads, rockers, and install a shift kit, but can't afford those things right now.

I need a good recommendation for a cam, lifters, valve springs, timing chain set. I feel like my power range should be around 6000 rpm at the top? Will a single plane Edelbrock Victor be ok, and will it clear the hood? I would like to run a Holley, but what size is appropriate? Do I need to upgrade my converter? What would be a good ignition, budget friendly, or will the stock distributor work? Anything I missed? Please set me straight FABO!

View attachment 1715746866
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You mentioned not wanting a shift kit because you cannot afford it now. Shift kits are very inexpensive, and will help your transmission deal with performance driving by eliminating overlap. Be sure the transmission is in good condition before installing the kit, or putting a lot of stress on it. You will not regret installing the shift kit. I've put one into all my auto trans Mopars since the 70's!
 
Ricks70Duster340 said:
You mentioned not wanting a shift kit because you cannot afford it now. Shift kits are very inexpensive, and will help your transmission deal with performance driving by eliminating overlap. Be sure the transmission is in good condition before installing the kit, or putting a lot of stress on it. You will not regret installing the shift kit. I've put one into all my auto trans Mopars since the 70's!
Click to expand...

frankly( and the last thing i am wanting to do is preach to you) stay away from a drag strip if a shift kit is something you cant afford.
You take your car to a race track, VERY good chance you are gonna hurt something...and it will cost way more than a shift kit would.
You may not want to hear that, but its probably the best advice i have given anybody. Been there myself, and done that
 
If you have 360 exhaust manfolds You may want to consider just porting them as well or find some cheap truck or magnum manifolds since you’re already planning on grinding out the heads anyway. It would save you a chunk of money, not to mention the hassle and frustration of installing headers in an early A.
 
318willrun said:
for a couple of quick recipes:
  • I just ran 12.9's in the quarter with my 360. 3.23 open rear end, stock 904 and factory stock converter, .427 lift/204 duration on intake, 750 DP on 730 dollar speedmaster heads, headers. Cruises down the road at 60 mph relaxed, idles like a stock 318 2bbl.
  • It ran 13.9's with 2.45 gear, stock 360 heads and stock exhaust manifolds. All else the same.
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that fast, make me feel pissed of! lol

my 360 got 10.5 comp. mechanic cam 224/224 468/468 lift 2.02 valve full ported iron head, dougs headers eddy rpm intake with 600cfm eddy carb, 904 with revorked stock converter 2800 and 3.91 gear. best 13.20@102mph 1.89 60ft. just install a 670 avenger with a new holley pump and have tuned it with a wideband...will see on the track.I am still in search where my HP goes lol.

I like my combo on the street
 
Spitfires are not fenderwell headers, they are stubby headers that terminate above the torsion bar, not even underchassis. I have one of the first sets directly from Harold, and have been running them for years. Not the best header, but better than manifolds.
Professor Fate said:
Well, you'll never get into the 12s with the stock 273 manifold. Maybe with some Magnum or 340 manifolds if you can get them snuck into the early A. Layson's (Spitfire) headers are fenderwell, and I thought that you didn't want to cut your inner fenders. There's a thread on here somewhere about modifying the #1 tube on Hedman's shorty headers for later As so they fit an early A- I'll see if I can dig it up.
Click to expand...
.
 
cosgig said:
Spitfires are not fenderwell headers, they are stubby headers that terminate above the torsion bar, not even underchassis. I have one of the first sets directly from Harold, and have been running them for years. Not the best header, but better than manifolds.

.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I already corrected myself and said I was thinking of the Hookers in my next post- I'm just gonna go back and edit the original.
 
silverex said:
that fast, make me feel pissed of! lol

my 360 got 10.5 comp. mechanic cam 224/224 468/468 lift 2.02 valve full ported iron head, dougs headers eddy rpm intake with 600cfm eddy carb, 904 with revorked stock converter 2800 and 3.91 gear. best 13.20@102mph 1.89 60ft. just install a 670 avenger with a new holley pump and have tuned it with a wideband...will see on the track.I am still in search where my HP goes lol.

I like my combo on the street
Click to expand...
750 DP might be enough to get you into the 12's. It's a perfect street carb as well.
 
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