11's with 3.23's

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skep419

skep419

5.9 Magnum 4 speed afficionado
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My current combo has went 7.88 in the 1/8th. Currently running 4 valve relief speed pros with a comp xe284 cam, ede heads, air gap, 750 holley street hp. midwest converter that stalls at around 3200. 3.91 gears with 26x9.50-15 hoosier qtp.
Last year I had a drive line vibration that I was trying to figure out. through process of elimination ended up putting my spare 741 3.23 chunk in. Moved the vibration to a higher speed, but I fell in love with the cruise rpm.
I have a spare 742 sure grip (68 single spline sidegear) Don't really want to swap out every time I go to the strip.

What would be the best changes to make to get into the 11's with 3.23's with the least amount of cash.
(I would rather take it apart in pieces trying)
 
11's with 3:23s, ummm........you will likely need a blower with nitrous......LOL! ( just kiddin )
 
Not close to 11's with my setup but here is some info. from my personal trial & error with my 65 cuda over the years with same basically stock 340 except for noted changes.

4.11 gears/3400 converter/thermoquad- 8.24 1/8th
3.55 gears/3400 converter/thermoquad- 9.22 1/8th( just gear swap wiped out bottom end)
3.55 gears/2400 converter/thermoquad- 8.87 1/8th
3.55 gears/2400 converter/rhodes lifters/lunati voodoo cam/eddy air gap & 800 cfm avs carb- 8.12

Now she is a streetable 12 second car with 3.55's. Biggest help in my case was stall change, rhodes lifters to tame higher lift cam on bottom end & carb that has high flow but has secondaries that can be adjusted to hit late.

Oldschoolcuda
 
According to the 1/8-1/4 mile conversion chart [SIZE=-1]7.9[SIZE=-1]=[/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=-1]12.32[SIZE=-1].

[SIZE=-1]How much time would the gear swap eat up.

[SIZE=-1]A[SIZE=-1] full second? [SIZE=-1]How would the gear swap hurt the en[SIZE=-1]g[SIZE=-1]ine?[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]

[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
 
I don't think your going to get there unless you figure out someway to increase your torque a whole bunch. The combo you have now would really like a little more gear as it is. Something in the 4.10 range. You might be able to get there with some nitrous. That would be the cheapest way. Or you can spend half a fortune like I am and put a 6-71 roots blower on top. I am also running 3.23's.

Jack
 
You can run 11s on it... But it's not easy. The easiest choice would be the stroker crank. But - I think if you're serious some gains could be had with swapping in a better piston and tightening up the quench, then adding a little cam. You're close already - but I don;t think much more will happen without some internal parts replacing.
 
I've got a set of h116's I bought a while back. Never did anything with them do to the "mine as well" syndrome that always leads to stroker crank.

swap out pistons and throw it back together.
(mine as well get arp rod bolts)
Forget the bolts these scat I beams aren't much more and there lighter.
(mine as well balance it afterwords)
If I'm going to get it balanced I mine as well buy a lighter forged piston.
(mine as well buy a stroker crank)
 
skrews said:
low first gear in trans ? makes them 3.23s like 3.55s while in first gear
Click to expand...

Would definetely help with 60's. Main issue i see is you'll be spending most of the run in 2nd gear and pushing alot of air as the speed increases. If i was building a engine from scratch to do this with 3.23's, i'd want 450lbs.ft. from around 3k to 5k to get there. A decent converter will get you out of the hole, but 2nd gear is where the numbers will come from.
 
Well, unfortunately your current combo is not very close to the 11's as is, so putting in a taller gear will slow it even more. My old mild 360 combo (eddy heads, 509 cam, 750dp) picked up half a second when I switched from 3.55 gears to 4.10. I would bet you would lose about the same going from 3.91 to 3.23.

Going the 4" crank route would be the best in the long run, but for the least amount of cash up front (assuming you don't spray it all the time), adding a small nitrous kit would get you there easily. Nitrous refills can REALLY add up ($$$) over time, but for the instant gratification, its hard to beat....of course, it is easy to fall into the "you might as well" trap with the bottle too.
 
Someone said, "Blower and a 4 inch arm...just kidding...."

I'm not. Start with a blower.
 
i have to let you know what old my turbo dart runs when the new owner takes her to the track. i had 3:23's w/ a 28'' tall tire. im sure she'll be low tens high 9's.... she was making almost a 4 digit rwhp # too;-)
 
Without spending a ton of money, I would say just split the difference and install a 3.55 gear set. You could also try going to a taller tire on the street. Will a 28" tire fit on a 69 Dart? I don't know, but swapping to a 3.55 gear and installing a 28" tire calculates to be within 100 rpm of your current 3.23/26" tire combo, at 70 mph. That way you can get some of your performance back, but not give up any of the drive ability you've come to love.
 
forced 340 said:
i have to let you know what old my turbo dart runs when the new owner takes her to the track. i had 3:23's w/ a 28'' tall tire. im sure she'll be low tens high 9's.... she was making almost a 4 digit rwhp # too;-)
Click to expand...

Please tell me you're joking..........because it only takes a tick over 600hp to run that ET (low 10's to high 9's)....or is this just a number you tell folks at the local cruse nights. That kind of power (almost 1000 RWHP) would give you a solid 8 second pass, or low 9's if you suck at life.
 
flyfish said:
Please tell me you're joking..........because it only takes a tick over 600hp to run that ET (low 10's to high 9's)....or is this just a number you tell folks at the local cruse nights. That kind of power (almost 1000 RWHP) would give you a solid 8 second pass, or low 9's if you suck at life.
Click to expand...

no i am not kidding. my car was a street car. no cage, 93 oct pump gas, 15#s of boost, and drag radials... ask anyone that has seen my car. i never took it to the track because it dont have a cage. i have no idea what it would run...
 

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Also, what did the car 60' before the gear swap? The reason I'm asking is because a 3200 stall seems to be a little low for your engine combo, IMO.
 
flyfish said:
Please tell me you're joking..........because it only takes a tick over 600hp to run that ET (low 10's to high 9's)....or is this just a number you tell folks at the local cruse nights. That kind of power (almost 1000 RWHP) would give you a solid 8 second pass, or low 9's if you suck at life.
Click to expand...

I can attest that he's not joking. The Dart actually made the power on the dyno sheet. The Detroit street scene is a bit strange as we tend to underpromise and overdeliver and often never reveal our ET and MPH's. Tim's car on the street was super squirrely from even freeway speeds and I would think its high 9 or a low 10 slip would come with some killer MPH through the traps. This is a docile car only snotty because the exhaust was dumped. Nitrous cars can be setup with more launch control usually. I personally think N20 cars are faster in every case except for when I'm passing you on the freeway at 100 with my DD. :) Most of us in the Detroit mopar scene haven't looked at a N20 bottles since we started making real power. Fast is fast however so you win.
 
forced 340 said:
no i am not kidding. my car was a street car. no cage, 93 oct pump gas, 15#s of boost, and drag radials... ask anyone that has seen my car. i never took it to the track because it dont have a cage. i have no idea what it would run...
Click to expand...

The new owner is going to get escorted off the track in a hurry with no cage!!:D

That combo will run mid 8's if, 1- you can get it to hook 2- if the new owner has balls enough to stay in it.!!

You loaded the trunk with a couple packs of Depends Diapers right when he took delivery of the car??

My car when done will have similar numbers RWHP. Mine has a 14pt cage though. Ill I need to do is have enough balls to hold the throttle to the floor! :burnout:
 
Mad Dart said:
The new owner is going to get escorted off the track in a hurry with no cage!!:D

That combo will run mid 8's if, 1- you can get it to hook 2- if the new owner has balls enough to stay in it.!!

loor! :burnout:
Click to expand...

I wanted to buy it for our Prestone Brands promotional outreach but legal said no way! Wait until the drive the Fram car!
 
Mad Dart said:
The new owner is going to get escorted off the track in a hurry with no cage!!:D

That combo will run mid 8's if, 1- you can get it to hook 2- if the new owner has balls enough to stay in it.!!

You loaded the trunk with a couple packs of Depends Diapers right when he took delivery of the car??

My car when done will have similar numbers RWHP. Mine has a 14pt cage though. Ill I need to do is have enough balls to hold the throttle to the floor! :burnout:
Click to expand...

lmao!!! i told him to drive the car for a while till he get the hang of it... i drove it for 2 seasons with the big engine and i didnt have the nerve to stay in it! the 2nd to 3rd shift was brutal even with the 3:23! i was almost going to go down to a 2:94! she got to 7k very fast!
 
skep419 said:
My current combo has went 7.88 in the 1/8th. Currently running 4 valve relief speed pros with a comp xe284 cam, ede heads, air gap, 750 holley street hp. midwest converter that stalls at around 3200. 3.91 gears with 26x9.50-15 hoosier qtp.

What would be the best changes to make to get into the 11's with 3.23's with the least amount of cash.
(I would rather take it apart in pieces trying)
Click to expand...


Based on the bolded phrases I would say you need to look at a small shot of nitrous.

If you want to do it NA then you will need to loosen up the wallet a bit. I would talk to a custom converter company on what you are trying to achieve and see if they can get a 9.5" or a 8" converter with a 4000-4500 stall efficient enough to cruise at your target rpm with the 3.23s

I don't know that I would swap in a low gear set into the trans as that will reduce the amount of time you spend "on the converter" in first gear.

Taller, bigger, tires increase rotational weight. Rotational weight impacts the car 10x as much as static weight. If you add 100 lbs of static weight, it slows the car down .1 seconds in the 1/4 mile. Adding only 10lbs of rotational weight will have the same effect.
 
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