12 Second N/A Slant 6?

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I have over 1K in my head including all machine work, porting valves and parts. The benefit or roller rockers on the slant is really nothing. This has been fought over a lot. Call Rocker Arm Services and talk to Gary. Then can make you anything.

You would spend 2 X that just for a set of exchange ported heads W/stock valves/aftermarket valves springs for a Gen III Hemi.

That is not out of my budget.

and as i said the roller part, not much gained, the LIFT on a low duration cam is the benefit! but we have already made that game plan up..

Not looking for roller rockers, just a better ratio.

I'm looking to maximize lift W/O a lot of duration.

My custom Crower grind in 5.7 had a very aggressive opening ramp. 113° LSA. Duration was in the same range as the Comp 268 grind for the 3rd Gen Hemi (can't remember spec's off hand) It allowed good cylinder fill (235# cranking pressure) but still pulled to 6250 & didn't fall on it's face. Lots of TQ to pull 4300# down the track in 12 flat.

That's kinda what I am looking for but @ lower peak RPM. Max cylinder fill while holding TQ for 5000-5500 RPM (flat) HP peak. FAT TQ curve that hold as the revs come up.

Get the heads that flow @ the right RPM matched to the proper cam.

Put the proper induction/exhaust that will optimze the same power band RPM then gear it properly (4.10?) W/the right convertor.
 
You would spend 2 X that just for a set of exchange ported heads W/stock valves/aftermarket valves springs for a Gen III Hemi.

That is not out of my budget.



Not looking for roller rockers, just a better ratio.

I'm looking to maximize lift W/O a lot of duration.

My custom Crower grind in 5.7 had a very aggressive opening ramp. 113° LSA. Duration was in the same range as the Comp 268 grind for the 3rd Gen Hemi (can't remember spec's off hand) It allowed good cylinder fill (235# cranking pressure) but still pulled to 6250 & didn't fall on it's face. Lots of TQ to pull 4300# down the track in 12 flat.

That's kinda what I am looking for but @ lower peak RPM. Max cylinder fill while holding TQ for 5000-5500 RPM (flat) HP peak. FAT TQ curve that hold as the revs come up.

Get the heads that flow @ the right RPM matched to the proper cam.

Put the proper induction/exhaust that will optimze the same power band RPM then gear it properly (4.10?) W/the right convertor.

ok first thing you need to understand is this is not a gen anything hemi, this is not a gen anything small block, this isn't even a small numbers pontiac...

Slants are built buy people who want to build them, you cant "just" build one because. time involved is much like building a hemi, lots of time picking the right cam to make the motor run. my point is there is very little aftermarket for these, so saying my gen III blah wont get you anywhere but frustrated. you'll have the same or more in a 500hp small block but thats not why we build these.

all of us slant guys are more than willing to help as thats our crowd, but its a small crowd and many will tire quickly so tread lightly.

now here is my build for you.

Intake
offy intake not the aussie, reason being the aussie is a small port (stock port) intake thats roughly twice as long, or MORE restrictive. you could probably make more power all over with no loses with the clifford due to the 240ci but that comes to track times.

Headers
ive heard lots of good things on the aussie headers but never any specs. i dont know tube sizes or length, nothing! thus i run hookers super comps, with 1 5/8" primaries they are a little big for down low but are long enough to make up for it(thinking about cutting some tube off the flange and go 1 1/2 or 9/16) to 1 5/8". my reason being that you want a primary tube the same diameter as the exh valve, that being 1.5" on the biggest you get my drift.

Cam
solid is your only choice until enough people want and will pay for a roller to bring the price down (i may be the first if i build my 300 cube slant).
so you want a low duration cam (as you should) with a 108-110 LSA. i plan on building a similar motor with a 220* @ .050 duration, 108-110LSA, lift as much as you can (this is where a 1" lifter comes in, allows more lift for the same duration) i would like .480 VALVE lift or a .340-.350 lobe lift.

Head Work
never played with nitrous but i would leave the stock exhaust valve size and get a bigger intake valve (1.75 or so) as you can port the exh to the same specs as the intake! so get the intake opened up where it needs to be and port the exhaust as needed (70-78% of intake flow, not 75-85% as is so easy to end up with).
milling the guide down for over .450 lift will get you anywhere you need to be. 1.5" dia BB springs drop in but new retainers and locks will be needed.
Lastly rockers. stockers are plenty strong and if they are nice and tight just shim them to where they need to be (small block shims work).
crane 354lbs springs are perfect.

as for the drivetrain the 904 is plenty strong, just has to built for nitrous, same with the verter, stall i would shoot for 3 grand but i cant tell without a torque curve. same with the rear end, 8.25 will be lighter than an 8.75. in my car with 28" tall tires i would trap at 5 grand with 3.91's so i think 4.10's would be spot on.

anything i missed lol?
 
i forgot also to run isky adjusters with lock nuts so your last dosn't change, hemi adjusters are about 1/4" to long and just lightly kiss the valve cover, so they need to be a little shorter and they will be perfect
 
are you running .021 shim or felpro .037 think gaskets?

The thickest I can find. I'm not 100% sure on it yet. The block required .025" to square it up. I don't know where the deck height is yet as it has not been back to the shop. I was TOLD the head cc'd at 54 cc's but I haven't had a chance to measure the chambers......that was before the port work and valve job, so I might be in better shape than I think. At least I hope so. lol
 
ok first thing you need to understand is this is not a gen anything hemi, this is not a gen anything small block, this isn't even a small numbers pontiac...

Slants are built buy people who want to build them, you cant "just" build one because. time involved is much like building a hemi, lots of time picking the right cam to make the motor run. my point is there is very little aftermarket for these, so saying my gen III blah wont get you anywhere but frustrated. you'll have the same or more in a 500hp small block but thats not why we build these.

all of us slant guys are more than willing to help as thats our crowd, but its a small crowd and many will tire quickly so tread lightly.
Thank you! :cheers:

Question for the OP, you wanna run N/A and you wanna run 12's on pump gas. Why no water methanol injection?

Don't you wanna pull the most power you can get out of you N/A slant?

Yeah a kit is like $400 dollars but it pays for itself. You can run higher compression and for the price of a tank of 93 octane fuel and a $2 gallon of wiper fluid..... BOOM! Racing fuel. And it's still N/A, water methanol is not a power adder.
 
anything i missed lol?

The Gen III Hemi thing is just to put cost into perspective,

There is virtually NO aftermarket support for the Gen III Hemi by any major manufacturers.

Cost for effectvely modding the Gen III Hemi/LX platform is as high or higher than what I am seeing for the Slant 6.

You are loosing me on the 1" lifter. What does the lifter have to do with gross valve lift?
 
The thickest I can find. I'm not 100% sure on it yet. The block required .025" to square it up. I don't know where the deck height is yet as it has not been back to the shop. I was TOLD the head cc'd at 54 cc's but I haven't had a chance to measure the chambers......that was before the port work and valve job, so I might be in better shape than I think. At least I hope so. lol

i think husky is now making copper in any thinkness but they are copper gaskets...
 
The Gen III Hemi thing is just to put cost into perspective,

There is virtually NO aftermarket support for the Gen III Hemi by any major manufacturers.

Cost for effectvely modding the Gen III Hemi/LX platform is as high or higher than what I am seeing for the Slant 6.

You are loosing me on the 1" lifter. What does the lifter have to do with gross valve lift?

well there is more than for a slant lol. look in any mag and show me anything for a slant, then for a gen III hemi. much more for the gen III! and i took no harm from it.

now the 1" lifter. chryslers have always had better cams then ford and chevy to there lobe design! reason being they use a .990 lifter where are ford uses i think uses a .980 and chevy .975. the bigger the lifter diameter the steeper the ramp can go before the lifter gouges the ramp, thus why mops have "Mopar Ramps" as they are aggressive. with a 1" lifter you can get an even faster ramp on the same duration as a .990 lifter.

all that means is more lift for the same duration which is what we want.
 
Thank you! :cheers:

Question for the OP, you wanna run N/A and you wanna run 12's on pump gas. Why no water methanol injection?

Don't you wanna pull the most power you can get out of you N/A slant?

Yeah a kit is like $400 dollars but it pays for itself. You can run higher compression and for the price of a tank of 93 octane fuel and a $2 gallon of wiper fluid..... BOOM! Racing fuel. And it's still N/A, water methanol is not a power adder.

4 pages and somebody had to say it...
 
With a head deck like this



and 2.2 TURBO (dished) pistons, I wonder if one could acheive a decent quench distance W/O getting CR too high.

my head has .113 off it and looks nothing like that, i would be worried about deck thickness on that. i bet thats .150 or more milled off.
 
Thank you! :cheers:

Question for the OP, you wanna run N/A and you wanna run 12's on pump gas. Why no water methanol injection?

Don't you wanna pull the most power you can get out of you N/A slant?

Yeah a kit is like $400 dollars but it pays for itself. You can run higher compression and for the price of a tank of 93 octane fuel and a $2 gallon of wiper fluid..... BOOM! Racing fuel. And it's still N/A, water methanol is not a power adder.

I know it's not a power adder, but it is an add-on & I just don't want to fool with that.

If I can't get 12s I want to get as close as I can W/O add-ons.

well there is more than for a slant lol. look in any mag and show me anything for a slant, then for a gen III hemi. much more for the gen III! and i took no harm from it..

Maybe not the engines themselves, but try to find lug nuts listed for an LX (Magnum, Charger, 300) or a ring & pinion, torque convertor, headers, etc.

They are available, but not from Jegs or Summit.

now the 1" lifter. chryslers have always had better cams then ford and chevy to there lobe design! reason being they use a .990 lifter where are ford uses i think uses a .980 and chevy .975. the bigger the lifter diameter the steeper the ramp can go before the lifter gouges the ramp, thus why mops have "Mopar Ramps" as they are aggressive. with a 1" lifter you can get an even faster ramp on the same duration as a .990 lifter.

all that means is more lift for the same duration which is what we want.

OK, so where does one get 1" lifters for a Slant 6 & what type of machine work is involved.

A far as duration, it would seem that the larger lifter would affect duration but I can understand how you could compensate W/the cam grind.
 
OK, so where does one get 1" lifters for a Slant 6 & what type of machine work is involved.

A far as duration, it would seem that the larger lifter would affect duration but I can understand how you could compensate W/the cam grind.

just have to bore lifter holes, and International used 1" shell lifters the oregon has in stock.

and nope. you can have a mopar lobe with 225* @ .050 with .450 lift on the stock lifter or gain .040 lift on the 1" (above is all an example and i dont have my book with the exact gain but its worth it), oregon can give you the low down...
 
well there is more than for a slant lol. look in any mag and show me anything for a slant, then for a gen III hemi. much more for the gen III! and i took no harm from it.

now the 1" lifter. chryslers have always had better cams then ford and chevy to there lobe design! reason being they use a .990 lifter where are ford uses i think uses a .980 and chevy .975. the bigger the lifter diameter the steeper the ramp can go before the lifter gouges the ramp, thus why mops have "Mopar Ramps" as they are aggressive. with a 1" lifter you can get an even faster ramp on the same duration as a .990 lifter.

all that means is more lift for the same duration which is what we want.

wow...good to know....will probably have no use for this info...but still...
 
just have to bore lifter holes, and International used 1" shell lifters the oregon has in stock.

and nope. you can have a mopar lobe with 225* @ .050 with .450 lift on the stock lifter or gain .040 lift on the 1" (above is all an example and i dont have my book with the exact gain but its worth it), oregon can give you the low down...

Good information.

Thanks.
 
wow...good to know....will probably have no use for this info...but still...

i have a motor up my sleeve that if built will be the first 9 second NA slant in a door slammer. so there is alot of stuff i have already nailed down, the 1" lifter was before i spec'd out a roller...:eek:ops:
 
no problem! i like getting more guys into slants! they are fun and the look on SBC guys in 80-90's bowties and the like cry when they get beat by a slant...
Say it again :cheers:
 
I'm just not gonna get all caught up in the technicalities. I'm gonna measure what I got, get the chambers where they need to be...deck height and sling her together. I just wanna have fun.
 
Kind of off topic but this has been the best thread in the slant six section in a long time. I have been kind of staying away from the slant six section due to the lack of people pushing the limits. Wagon, thanks for starting this thread and to everyone commenting, thanks for the information. I have looked forward to logging on everyday to see what has been going on in this thread
 
Kind of off topic but this has been the best thread in the slant six section in a long time. I have been kind of staying away from the slant six section due to the lack of people pushing the limits. Wagon, thanks for starting this thread and to everyone commenting, thanks for the information. I have looked forward to logging on everyday to see what has been going on in this thread

im out of money or we would be out limits!!
 
im out of money or we would be out limits!!

YEAH! Me too! But now you and Matt have me redesigning my build in my head!...hi comp, hi lift, H20 injected...NO!...gotta stay focused...aww, what the hell....No I don't!...it's about having fun, right!
 
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