12 Second N/A Slant 6?

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You could be in the 13's and be fully streetable with 3.55 or 3.73 gears if you could get the rear wheel HP in the 200 to 230 range and a weight around 2600 lbs.That's about the same as a ,let's say,a stock 340 Duster.So many variables have to be delt with to get the right combo.
One of your questions was off set crank grinding.I have a 225 bored .020 over with a offset ground crank that yields 234 cubes.Maybe money not well spent for 9 more cubes.But just wanted to try something different.My engine guy wasn't used to doing any slants,Hemi's are his thing thus only a .020 overbore forgetting that a 225 block is easy to find and not worth very much. I wanted to go with a .100 over bore. for more cubes.That was 10 years ago.Now there is so much more info out there using lite weight metric pistons, rods, and rings that will yield more power.It's all about finding that right combination.(one of the reasons your '06 car runs the way it does)There is a guy that is running 12oh's in Pa N/A. He is using a fairly easy engine combo but the car's secret is he got the weight down to about 2000 lbs. With enough though any goal can be reached. Just a thought.

I'm looking at 2.2L pistons W/a .100 overbore on 7" rods. Maybe shave the head decks to get to 10.5:1. Offset grinding the crank a little would up the CR in lieu of shaving the heads & get me in the 240 Cu. In range.

I would like to run 3.90s to keep revs down on the street.

I think that 2600# is a reasonable weight target.

That's about what it weighs now & adding disc brakes & an 8 3/4" diff, 5 X 4 1/2 wheels 28" drag radials on the back will add weight.

I can gain some back W/skinnies on the front, aluminum manifold/headers, etc.

I want some thing that will run W/the stock Mustangs & Cameros on the motor & then have a 125 shot of juice in the trunk to really blow them away.
 
How about starting here for induction/exhaust?

Long, equal length intake manifold runners

small diameter, long primary tubes on the headers for maximum torque. Should work well W/410 gears on 28" drag radials.

I look at this engine as a trio of stroker Harley engines so 5000 RPM shift points (40 & 70 MPH) would be ideal W/the ability to wring out the top gear to 5500. Should hit about 112 MPH.

That always worked well with my 86 inch Panhead W/a 4.520" stroke & 3.465" bore.

That ain't far off from what the slant 6 would be W/a slight offset grind on the crank & 89mm 2.2L pistons.

3.5" bore X 4.175" stroke.
 
Is it feasible to run high 12s W/a natuaraly aspirated slant 6?

Not talking trailer queen here, but something that could be driven on the street.

10:1 CR 245, 4 barrlel, headers ported heads, drag radials, skinnies, good stal in the convertor, correct gearing, 2600# car.

Not looking to spend big $$$ on the motor, just a well balanced combo working together.

I ran 12 flat N/A in my 4300# '06 Charger that got 26 MPG on the hi-way.

11.3 on a 125 shot.

I wonder if a carefully thought out slant 6 powered '65 Valiant could run low 13/high 12s?

Uncle did it with a 62 lancer. There's no cheap way to go about it though
 
And I've been there live and in person and watched um. Charlie's stuff will haul butt and he does it on a reasonable budget. You oughtta write a book, Charlie.

It can be done, but not easily or cheaply. The hardest part is keeping it "street driver". I know you said N/A, but N2o would be the best way in my opinion. My 66 Cuda has a totally stock short block 170 , with a mild cam (.434 lift, 264 dur, 232 dur@.050) Milled head (39cc chambers) stock valves and 340 springs. Clifford headers, stock 1 bbl intake, modified to mount a 500 cfm 2bbl Holley carb, and nitrous fogger nozzles, MSD 6A ignition. 3,000 rpm converter, 3.91 SG 8 3/4 rear, and 8x23x13 slicks. Car weighs 3250 with driver, and runs low 13's in the quarter at about 100 mph.

My 66 Valiant is similar but has a 225 but with Offie intake and 390 Holley 4 bbl and 125 hp plate system (actually two 125 plates, but have never used the second stage, yet). This car has run low 13's also, and is capable of 12's but we have had some other issues, that have prevented a 12 sec run. This car was built for about $2,000 including buying the car, and it weighs just under 2700 lbs with driver, but does not have street equipment.
 
Uncle did it with a 62 lancer. There's no cheap way to go about it though

Cheap is a relative term

After modding Gen II Hemis, this has to be "cheap"

A set of heads for a Gen III Hemi = $2500, headers = $1000, cams = $400.

I swapped in an 8.8 Ford diff to be able to change gear ratios, that was $4000.

Carefull selection of parts & not falling victim to "builders" that are selling snake oil combos will save a lot.

I know how to make HP. I had my ow cam ground for my '06 Charger.

I can spend $500 on forged Weisco pistons for a slant 6 & spend $500 or I can buy 89mm 2.2L Hyperuetectic psitons for $300.

Rods will run about $500

My father in law can offset grind a crank for me to bring compression hieght into spec.

Intake manifold $565, headers $739.

Valves & such won't cost any more than a run of the mill rebuild job & I will do all the hand work my self.

Clearancing the block is not a big deal, been there done that on harley strokers back in the late '70s when stroker "kits" were not widely available.

$3000 ought to cover a big chunk of it. Some guys spend more than that on wheels/tires.

That's less than my heads & header cost for the 5.7.

Exotic crank lightening & such really won't gain that much when the engine will never see anything over 5500 RPM.

Make lots of torque that will pull up to 5000 RPM set up the gearing, stal convertor.

I'm not looking to do a $500 mod job here, but I'm not going to spend $10,000 either.

The engine has blow by anyway. I think the rings are stuck from sitting.

As long as I have ot opened up, I want to make some HP.
 
Cheap is a relative term

After modding Gen II Hemis, this has to be "cheap"

A set of heads for a Gen III Hemi = $2500, headers = $1000, cams = $400.

I swapped in an 8.8 Ford diff to be able to change gear ratios, that was $4000.

Carefull selection of parts & not falling victim to "builders" that are selling snake oil combos will save a lot.

I know how to make HP. I had my ow cam ground for my '06 Charger.

I can spend $500 on forged Weisco pistons for a slant 6 & spend $500 or I can buy 89mm 2.2L Hyperuetectic psitons for $300.

Rods will run about $500

My father in law can offset grind a crank for me to bring compression hieght into spec.

Intake manifold $565, headers $739.

Valves & such won't cost any more than a run of the mill rebuild job & I will do all the hand work my self.

Clearancing the block is not a big deal, been there done that on harley strokers back in the late '70s when stroker "kits" were not widely available.

$3000 ought to cover a big chunk of it. Some guys spend more than that on wheels/tires.

That's less than my heads & header cost for the 5.7.

Exotic crank lightening & such really won't gain that much when the engine will never see anything over 5500 RPM.

Make lots of torque that will pull up to 5000 RPM set up the gearing, stal convertor.

I'm not looking to do a $500 mod job here, but I'm not going to spend $10,000 either.

The engine has blow by anyway. I think the rings are stuck from sitting.

As long as I have ot opened up, I want to make some HP.

There's nothing inexpensive about that if you ask my wallet! Lol
 
"There's nothing inexpensive about that if you ask my wallet! Lol"


that is exactly why it took me 10 years to get my car going. lol having to save up the money.
 
There's nothing inexpensive about that if you ask my wallet! Lol

I didn't say inexpensive, I said I didn't want to spend "big bucks" on an engine.

This build needs to get started so we can see some results


This is a project that will take me some time.

1st I have to upgrade to front disc brake & an 8 3/4 SG diff in the back. One has no business going fast if you can't stop fast!

After that I can start socking away parts for the engine rebuild.

I'm wondering though. Would I be better off going for a large 2 bbl carb over a 4 bbl? Would the trade off in HP be too much to gain some drivability?

I did once have a Carter WCFB 4 bbl that worked really well on my 301 '57 Chevy SB.

It was simple, trouble free & got decent fuel millage.

I see the WCFB recommended in some articles. I would feel pretty comfortable working W/one of those.
 
The main problem I see building a /6 is head flow the ported numbers I've seen are disappointing, a six cylinder engine has to flow 33% higher than an 8 to be able to make the same power, So the rule of thumb for an V8 is 2hp for a each CFM a six would be 1.5hp, and best number I've seen is a 180cfm which would put you about 270hp that's probably 10-11:1 with a 286-296ish cam.
 
The main problem I see building a /6 is head flow the ported numbers I've seen are disappointing, a six cylinder engine has to flow 33% higher than an 8 to be able to make the same power, So the rule of thumb for an V8 is 2hp for a each CFM a six would be 1.5hp, and best number I've seen is a 180cfm which would put you about 270hp that's probably 10-11:1 with a 286-296ish cam.

270 (crank) HP pushing 2600" woule about be like 450 (crank) HP shoving my 4300# redneck Mercedes pig down the track.

It was making just over 500 crank HP when that video was shot & & it was hitting solid 12.0s @ 114 MPH.

270 HP should be a solid high-mid 12s performer in a 2600 car if it's set up right.
 
One thing for sure it is fun.Your comment about blowing away the stang's and camo's. Back in 96 I did up a 4 door Dart slant, nothing special or much to look at and took it on the Hot Rod Power Tour as a long hauler.I had myself a good ol' time running with the big boys at speeds 90 to 115 mph for long distances and hanging on to the back bumper of a then new SS Impala. When we stopped at the next venue several guys came over and asked to see under the hood."See I told ya it was a six" the guy said to his buddys."Damn,Do me a favor and don't tell anybody that you could hang with us.I couldn't shake you.You were on me like flies on S*#T."(Impala driver).The thing was about done at 118mph but I wasn't gonna tell them.
 
OOps, Forgot to mention that several slanters tested the Aussie intake and felt that the Clifford made more power.Now these were dedicated drag cars so.....I sure like the looks of them though.
I like your thought about building for "Torque" I approched Jack Clifford at the SEMA show in the 90's and told him that I wanted to build a short stroke 170 to rev high.He sat me down and said "Son what you want is Torque,these engines weren't designed to rev.Head won't do it".Same as said in several posts above.
Sorry for getting carried away........
 
OOps, Forgot to mention that several slanters tested the Aussie intake and felt that the Clifford made more power.Now these were dedicated drag cars so.....I sure like the looks of them though.

I would like to see the TQ curves.

I'd bet the Aussie made a nice FAT TQ curve. Long port runners make for lots of right off throttle torque. It's all about the larger mass of air rushing into the ports as the valve closes. It will be denser when the valve opens.

I would be willing to give up 15 HP on top to gain 10 in the midrange. Right about where the RPM would be after a 5000 RPM shift.

Not wanting a drag car, just something I can drive around that goes like $hit & still posts decent times on the track.

It's all bracket racing anyway.
 
why don't you try to cut down the weight even more? Are you running a full interior, original gas tank, and all original sheetmetal?
 
why don't you try to cut down the weight even more? Are you running a full interior, original gas tank, and all original sheetmetal?

I might set it up where I could pull the street seats & bolt in a racing bucket, but it will have door panels, stereo, headliner, etc.

We strip out all but the drivers seat in the LXs right at the track. The front passenger (6-way power/heated) weoghs 70 & taking out the rear saves maybe5-10#.

Some guys set up a drivers bucket, bolt it into the passenger side @ home.

With the rear seat out, they remove the comfortable driver's throne (another 70#) *& swap in the racing bucket. That bdrops over 100#.

W/O pullingb the door panels the cars weigh in about 4100-4500 depending on the bells & whistles.

One guy has an '09 Chalenger W/a Gen III aluminum block 426. The aluminum blocks can be bored about 4.86 while the 6.1/6.4 blocks are done @ 4.08". He's turning a 3.27 axle ratio in an b.8 Ford IRS diff.

I had an 8.8 W/3.23s in mine when I made those passes in the clips. Gives a 4.55:1 FDR in 3rd gear.

He runs full interior, pulls 10.80s W/1.40 60" times. He typically drives from E Ohio to SE New Jersey to compete in the LX Forums series.

The car pulls the wheels up on the launch.

4300-4500# car running 1.41 60'.
 
I might be more excited about this build than you powerwagon. I am going with a turbo setup but have been thinking about building a slant powered altered here soon and would like to do it without boost and maybe a small shot of spray.
 
I might be more excited about this build than you powerwagon. I am going with a turbo setup but have been thinking about building a slant powered altered here soon and would like to do it without boost and maybe a small shot of spray.

I don't have a lot of experience W/the juice, but what I did was pretty simple. Just follow the instructions.

Of course EFI is a lot easier than carbuteted spraying. I would want to ave an A/F gauge hooked up on a dyno to check out the spray.

I want someting that runs good on motor all by itself. A good breathing engine will injest more nitrous/fuel/air.

It's just nice to have an extra 125HP in the trunk.
 
The main problem I see building a /6 is head flow the ported numbers I've seen are disappointing, a six cylinder engine has to flow 33% higher than an 8 to be able to make the same power, So the rule of thumb for an V8 is 2hp for a each CFM a six would be 1.5hp, and best number I've seen is a 180cfm which would put you about 270hp that's probably 10-11:1 with a 286-296ish cam.

Mine came out pretty good, I thought.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1831974&postcount=111
 
I'm wondering though. Would I be better off going for a large 2 bbl carb over a 4 bbl? Would the trade off in HP be too much to gain some drivability?

I did once have a Carter WCFB 4 bbl that worked really well on my 301 '57 Chevy SB.

It was simple, trouble free & got decent fuel millage.

I see the WCFB recommended in some articles. I would feel pretty comfortable working W/one of those.

To get a 2 bbl to flow enough,the barrels would have to be pretty large, and that hurts throttle response. A WCFB is an "obsolete" carb (a little hard to get "tune up" parts). A mild slant works well with a 390 Holly, but that is small for what you want to do. 500 Edlebrock is viable. as is a 500-600 Holley. I have never tried one but I really think a small "Q" Jet or Thermoquad would be the ticket. Especially if your willing to tinker with it.
 
OOps, Forgot to mention that several slanters tested the Aussie intake and felt that the Clifford made more power.Now these were dedicated drag cars so.....I sure like the looks of them though.
I like your thought about building for "Torque" I approched Jack Clifford at the SEMA show in the 90's and told him that I wanted to build a short stroke 170 to rev high.He sat me down and said "Son what you want is Torque,these engines weren't designed to rev.Head won't do it".Same as said in several posts above.
Sorry for getting carried away........

Jack did a lot for six clyinder engines but "I" think he is wrong about the 170. If you look at what they were trying to do in 60 with the slant you will see a different picture. "I" think the 170 was the engine they designed the hyper pak for. The valve sizes and port sizes if used on a 170 vs a 225 would be much larger just based on cubic inches. I was told by my mentor who ran all kinds of slants that the 170 would zing. At Daytona the 170's were running 120+ miles an hour. Marvin changed a rear gear for the last race, started after everyone else and won the race going away. That is why I am building a 170 to see just what it will do. Remember Jack was in love with a Hudson Super Six.
 
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