1971 Duster 360/727

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Destroying the heads with a larger valve?
Wow! Ummmm, I'm about To recommend you stay away from that guy.
The different rocker ratios change the lift of the cam. More ratio, more lift.
 
Trebor that must be a hard car to drive around with in the city ;)

Rumblefish: Yeah I've read some more about heads, valves and such and you are absolutely right. Can't really "destroy" heads with bigger valves.

What are your thoughts on the 308 heads from late 80's and early 90's 360? I found a couple of van engines and emailed the sellers about selling just their heads.
I think I read something about losing lift with those heads, but can't you just run with the 1.6 ratio rockers then? If you don't run the original rockers that is.
 
Very interesting thread, love reading it. My only thing to you is in reference to the valves on the head. You said you want the car to be a "fun" street car. I'm in a similar situation. High horsepower is great, but if you're driving around town, the old saying "torque is king" rings true. From what I've read keeping your valves ratio closer together (1.8/1.6 vs 2.02/1.6) will keep your port velocity faster which equals torque. Do you plan on driving in high rpms all the time, or do you want a tire shedding, neck snapping torque cruiser? Now this is just my two cents gained from reading alot the topic, don't crucify me if you disagree.
 
I'd never crucify you for an opinion :p

I know too little about this to tell you that you are wrong, but I am sure you are right about the torque on the street.
However I don't think you can go wrong with a set of bigger valves, as long as you up the rest of the components as well to suit the application.

I think that I read somewhere that when you port your exhaust ports, you shouldn't port them all the way out to the outer edge of the headers, because if you leave a little "edge" you will get better backflow or something like that, increasing velocity.

About the 308's btw, which cars came with the 360 with those heads on it? Not getting answers on the engines I found yet so I thought about looking at the scrap yards.
Is it more than the ram van, ram pickup, d pickup series?

Edit:
Parts, parts everywhere
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Okay guys I have another question, again.
Yesterday we took the old engine mounts out and checked how the new ones fit.
It seems like the mounts I bought are just the ones that mount to the engine and not the chassis.
I've also read something about that the k-member differs from s6-v8, is this true and does it look like I have the right one?

New mounts look like this
img-20161119-134121.jpg

K-member?
img-20161119-134139.jpg

These were mounted to the k-member, home made mounts. They were loose in the car and look really weak, no idea how the engine was still in the car. We took them apart without tools.
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Do you have a link to where you bought them, or a part number?
 
Yeah I bought them at Hansen Racing, cannot post a link.
PIO602325 Motorkudde -> Engine Mount Front Right - Complete Unit
PIO602326 Motorkudde -> Engine Mount Front Left - Complete Unit
 
Well I've just been lurking around, reading other peoples project threads for a while now.
I found some 596 heads which needed work, so I contacted a kinda well known guy who works a lot with heads.
The price to fix them would be more expensive than to buy some "china" aluminum heads from a swedish company.
He said that if it were him, he would buy the aluminum ones and check valves, valve stems and valve seats.
These are the specs for the heads and they cost about $900.
Small%20Block%20Chrysler%20cylinder%20head%20.png


The company who sells them says that they've sold over 300 pairs and got 0 complaints so far, and I've read about someone who bought them needed to switch to longer pushrods, so maybe I'll buy Trebors rods :)

Edit: Oh and by the way. I got the hv oil pump and water pump now so I will be starting to put the engine together soon. Any big nono's for setting the ring gaps?
 
Okay guys I have another question, again.
Yesterday we took the old engine mounts out and checked how the new ones fit.
It seems like the mounts I bought are just the ones that mount to the engine and not the chassis.
I've also read something about that the k-member differs from s6-v8, is this true and does it look like I have the right one?

New mounts look like this
View attachment 1714991154
K-member?
View attachment 1714991155
These were mounted to the k-member, home made mounts. They were loose in the car and look really weak, no idea how the engine was still in the car. We took them apart without tools.
View attachment 1714991156
ooppps - (the new ones) those are 73 and up "spool" mount engine mounts - you need the 72 and earlier "biscuit" type - like this
$_57.JPG

MA4697.JPG

as for those home made pieces - toss 'em and do it right - but it sounds like you already knew that...
 
ooppps - (the new ones) those are 73 and up "spool" mount engine mounts - you need the 72 and earlier "biscuit" type - like this
View attachment 1714999745
View attachment 1714999746
as for those home made pieces - toss 'em and do it right - but it sounds like you already knew that...

Thanks for your answer.
I sure won't use them but its nice to have scrap metal around :)

I checked their website for 318 engine mounts and found these http://www.hansenkatalogen.se/admin...er/ecom/bilder/PIO602266.jpg&Width=290&Crop=5
But with those I cant mount them to the engine, so I've emailed them and asked if they have anything like the ones you mentioned.
 
Hello again.
I've started to put the engine together and I am going to order pushrods and rockers.
I found these rockers on ebay Mopar Chrysler SB 318 340 360 1.5 Ratio Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms & Shafts | eBay
They seem nice and I wonder if they will fit with ball or cup style pushrods?
Because i found these hardened pushrods New Hardened Pushrods Chrysler 318 360 340 273 Small Block Dodge sb Push Rods | eBay

The dollar to SEK rate is pretty good right now and I don't know if it will keep at this rate for a long time.

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Just a heads-up
That 230/236 cam is a great cam. I have a similar one. But I gotta warn you, it's pretty hard on gas.
The next size down is more torquey, easier on gas, and on the street, you will hardly notice the power difference up top. A cam around 224* is waaaay more fun,IMO.
In fact, if you set your engine up just right, that 224 can make some pretty good fuel economy, in point to point hiway mileage.
Also, just a heads up
The 224* cam does not absolutely require 2.02s. Again,the engine will not make quite the power with the smaller valve, but in the rpm range that you will be in 85% to 95% of the time, the power loss will not be noticed. Especially with 3.55s or better, and at least a 2800TC.
 
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As well as considering that when your in cruise mode, you'll never know.
 
Aj thanks for your input, I actually want to be able to usel it as a daily driver sometime.
I was recommended this cam with lifters and springs by PPM Racing in Sweden. I told him that I wanted a mild cam for use on the street. It will be hard for me to sell it.

Amy input input on the rockers and rods?
 
IMO, the recommended cam, you wil like and it'll be a great street strip cam.

Rockers? I am currently using Comp Pro Magnums. Good and inexpensive by compare to the rest pretty much.

I also just recently picked up a set from Hughes engines. These are really nice as well and priced well to boot. If you go with Hughes, they can also at the same time send you a tool to measure for a pushrod. You send it back to them at the proper length and they will have pushrods made For you.
 
That 224* cam, peaked around 5200 in my 367 with aluminum heads.I installed it with 1.6 arms. It pulled hard to well into the mid 6xxxs, and with the right springs revved to 7000 no problem.(don't forget the oiling mods if you want to go there). The early power peak, means an early torque peak,probably a little shy of 4000, I'm guessing. Well guess what; 34mph with 3.55s is right around that rpm with the 2.45 low of the automatic. That means when you nail it from cruising in Second or Drive, and it drops into First,then you are right on or near the torque peak,and are blasting off.
This next part may not help you much but;
I installed an overdrive behind this cam, and with a 2.02 final drive, I was able to achieve 32 mpgUS @ 65=1650rpm(M/T). With straight 3.55s I cannot recall the fuel-mileage, except to say that it was waaaay better than the 230* I now have.
>The 230* pulls a bit harder and a bit longer, and is happy to be shifted as high as 7200. I think it power peaks around 5400, it's hard to say cuz the 110LSA stretches it out, and flattens the power curve to I can't be real sure exactly where it is; so I just rev the snot out of it. Most of the time the tires are spinning to past the speed limit anyway. With an automatic, the shift rpm might be around 6200.
Yeah and that's another reason to go with a 224*ish cam.That cam,with 3.55s,puts the torque peak right where you need it at about 34mph. And with the 2.45 low, it will power-peak right around 46mph, and carry that power almost flat to 51mph@5800, and there about,the power begins to slowly,fall off. BUT, properly springed, it will still carry you to around 56mph@6350. Furthermore, This cam makes gobs of torque below it's torque peak. I would not be scared to try it with the factory convertor which might stall between 2200 and 2400.And Here's why;
If you are running anything less than 275s out back, that cam is just gonna light them up from a dead stop, as the TC slingshots you off the line. If you can then get the revs up to 2800 or better, you will smoke those little wieners all the way through First. So then; If you woulda had a 2800 or better TC, it wouldn't have helped you one tiny bit, cuz the limit was traction.
>But if you solve the traction issues, and then the engine cannot generate enough torque at 2200 to 2400 to break traction, this is where a higher stall comes in.
>Another place a higher stall TC comes in, is when attempting to rocket away from a speed that is well under the torque peak, bur not standing still. 2200/2400rpm is about 20/22mph. If your engine is a little shy of torque there,then the acceleration will not be as brisk as it could be with a looser TC. Remember the torque peak may be up as high a 3900/34mph, so you will need to power from 20/22 to around 30mph, before RapidTransit begins. So this is where a 2800TC comes in.
Cruising will be about 65=2870with zero TC slip. So you kindof want to stay above that to keep the tranny fluid cool, and also, if you care about fuel economy.
>So with a 2800TC,lock-up in first occurs at about 26mph, a good 2 to 4 mph later, and the engine is making more torque up at that rpm; and so,the car rockets ahead a lot harder than when it had the 2200/2400.
>If you think I really like this cam, you would be right. Of the 3 cams I have tried, this 224*, was my favorite, most versatile cam. I would still be driving it, except that in 2004, it dropped two lobes. I then moved up one size,to the 230*, and for the rest of the summer, and part of the next, I was scrambling ,looking for the torque I had lost.For a while I was kindof sorry,that I had chosen the 230*. The cure for me was a deeper low gear,(manual trans) and a sharper tune.
>If you are gonna run 27 or 28 inch tires with the 3.55s and the 230* cam, you are for sure IMO,gonna need a looser TC than stock.
In my experience, the 230* gives up quite a bit of low-rpm torque to get a few more hp at 5400 and beyond.So much so that I needed a 3.09 low, over a 2.66, to get similar off-idle performance. That is a 16% increase in ratio. I won't say it took all of that 16%, but I think it would be fair to say at least half of that. I would estimate the loss of torque therefor to be in excess of 20 ftlbs, to perhaps as much a 24ftlbs, in the range from 1200 to 2400 rpm, where I like to dump the clutch and go;most of the time,lol.
I guess what I'm saying is, that the 230* with a factory TC,needs more gear than 3.55s, to be peppy in the range that most street-driving is done.IMO, the loss of torque below 2200, would require 3.83 gears to compensate. Well they don't make 3.83s do they? So your poison is 3.91s or 3.73s. Or instead of gears, you can up the stall.
But the 3.55s are just right for a 224* cam, especially with a 2800 or a bit more, and a traction aider of some kind, if you want to convert some of the tire smoke into forward motion.
All calculations were based on a 27"tire, and a 2.45 low.

Yeah I know, another stinking novel. I just don't know how it happens! I just type, and before you know it, Bam! there it is. Tell you what, hit Ctrl and minus, about 3 times, and then it might fit onto one screen,lol
 
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Rumblefish: I think so too. About the rods it's not an option for me to measure with that tool because it would take at least 2 months to send it back and forth :p Pushrods should be fairly easy to sell if they are wrong so I think I will take a chance and buy the ones I linked, I just wonder if the rockers need ball or cup rods?

Aj: Holy s... that's a lot of information, how do you keep track of it? :p I have no idea what the stall is on my turbine, I guess I will see when I run the car for the first time. I also have no clue what gears is in the rear but I think I can calculate it with the car in one piece and on the road. I dont think my engine will ever see 7000 rpm either :)
About the tires, I will run with the ones currently on it, at least for this summer if I even get the car ready. The rears are not big or wide at all but they should smoke haha.

Anywho, a guy who used to dragrace back in the days came by and bought the slant six today and he looked at my engine and stuff. He thought it will be a fun engine and he advised me to change the freeze plugs and buy a larger driveshaft. Really nice guy.
Tomorrow we will put in the rest of the pistons and maybe clean/paint the oil pan, block and intake. Sure takes some time putting the pistons back in again.

And again, I appreciate all answers and feedback from you guys, so much knowledge.

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Yea, WAY to much info and math. I don't even read it. I feel like the dog. Bla bla bla bla bla, "treat" bla bla bla, "sit", bla bla bla bla "good dog!"

Pushrods an easy sell? If that length is right for the next guy it is.
 
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Freezeplugs? Yeah, change especially the two at the back on the sides. Those back two always seem to be the first ones to rot; I guess cuz that is where the sludge tends to accumulate.I also recommend the ones in the bellhouse, cuz when they go, whether; two months later,or two weeks later,or two days later, I guarantee you won't be pleased,lol. Oh, and the two hidden behind the mounts, too,lol. The center two? Well they are easy enough to get out, but trying to install them straight,in the chassis,without hammer-swinging room, is very frustrating even on a warm summer's day,never mind when it's freezing out!lol.
I have reused good ones, on my own stuff. I glue them back in.
But I only run a 7psi cap too. Still, I pressure test them to 15psi.I don't want any surprises.
 
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Rumblefish: Yes ofcourse :)
Aj: Yeah I'll buy a set of freeze plugs and change them.
 
Got the pistons in and painted the engine today, not a serious paintjob but sure looks better than before.

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Haven't updated in a while but now I have a question.
Fitted the oil pump today and the oil pan you see on the last pictures doesn't fit over the pump and someone mentioned that the pan that was on the engine won't fit in the car, can someone give me a little bit of clarity on this? Is there a third pan available to these engines?
I've since the last post got the rocker arms and cylinder heads delivered, gonna clean the rockers and swap springs in the heads before putting them in :)

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I do not recognize that pan. The front is off from normal pans. At the rear of the pan, a high volume oil pump is thicker than a standard pump. You'll need a hammer to dent the pan.
 
What intake is that sitting quietly on the side?
 
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