1972 Dodge Dart Swinger Stance

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PawnCenter72 said:
I ordered these thank you for the link
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So you wanted a street cruiser you could put groceries in, and bought Super Stock springs. Interesting.
Well, I guess you can put all your groceries on the right side. Lol
 
Ddaddy said:
I never said anything about how they look, just the stance they give and how they perform. The 3000 lb SS springs are nearly identical to the HD springs that came on my '69 GTS. The extra leaf on the one side is an advantage when running a performance set up to provide the best overall performance balanced between launch traction and cornering...even if it's all on the street. The extra 20 lbs/in spring rate isn't enough to matter for normal street driving when the front end is tight and adjusted to the correct ride height. HP gas shocks help too.

My GTS was sagging an inch lower on the rear passenger side than the driver's side after 46 years of pressure from just the stock 340 drive train. Now with a Mopar performance Magnum 360 crate motor putting out 390 HP and 422 lb-ft torque, a 2500 rpm stall torque converter and 3.91 sure-grip rear...I want the extra leaf on the passenger side.
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No sir. The extra 20 lb/in rate is a 16% increase in spring rate compared to a 120 lb/in spring. 16%. If you compare to the XHD's I recommended it's a 27% increase. That is not a small difference, it and absolutely is more than enough to matter even for normal street driving. I run front torsion bars that are 300 lb/in, a front sway bar, and everything in the front end is brand new polyurethane or better. And 140 lb/in springs in the back are still TOO STIFF to have a balanced car with my setup. I run my rear sway bar at the minimum setting already with 120 lb/in springs. I also run 295's out back with modern compound tires, so, if anyone needs stiffer springs out back its me. And I don't. Not even with a 400+ hp 340.

As far as a performance set up, yes, SS springs are. For the strip. Period. They are designed for launch traction, and launch traction alone. If you run unbalanced springs you are not running a set up that is compatible with performance cornering unless all your corners are left turns. Everything you pointed to for suspension set up is for a strip car. Not a street car, and certainly NOT a car set up for corners.
 
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Sorry, but I disagree with your opinion. 16% in the rear is not enough to matter if the rest of the suspension matches. It's not a road course car, it's a street driver HP Mopar. It has to be a blend of track and streetability in order for it to be fun to drive. And no, the SS springs don't make one side of the rear higher than the other while sitting when the front torsion bars are adjusted properly. They just have an extra leaf on one side to keep that side from compressing under torque.

When I want full performance cornering and HP straight line power, I drive my 425 HP 2006 Charger SRT. When I want Vintage Mopar Muscle feel, my GTS is it.

SRT and GTS 1.jpg
 
72bluNblu said:
That's your opinion, I already posted mine. I ran Super Stock springs for awhile on my Challenger when it was a daily driver. Even with 1.12" torsion bars up front the Super Stocks were too stiff out back for the car to be balanced. 1.12" bars are pretty stiff, but the SS springs still created a harsher ride compared to those bars up front. They also raised the back of the car far too high for any kind of serious handling. I switched to XHD's, problem solved.

Plus, they do give the car an uneven ride height side to side, and don't have the same spring rate side to side. That compromises handling, the car does not react the same way turning left vs turning right. No, using SS springs isn't horrible, but there's no real reason to use them on a street car that never, or even occasionally sees the track. They're for street/strip cars that see equal usage on both in my opinion, and they absolutely have their place on the strip.
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E-body SS springs are different than the a-body ones... apples and oranges...
 
Johnny Dart said:
So you wanted a street cruiser you could put groceries in, and bought Super Stock springs. Interesting.
Well, I guess you can put all your groceries on the right side. Lol
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the person who suggested them said it will sit correctly once they get broke in so might as well upgrade to the next best thing was my idea
 
Ddaddy said:
Sorry, but I disagree with your opinion. 16% in the rear is not enough to matter if the rest of the suspension matches. It's not a road course car, it's a street driver HP Mopar. It has to be a blend of track and streetability in order for it to be fun to drive. And no, the SS springs don't make one side of the rear higher than the other while sitting when the front torsion bars are adjusted properly. They just have an extra leaf on one side to keep that side from compressing under torque.

When I want full performance cornering and HP straight line power, I drive my 425 HP 2006 Charger SRT. When I want Vintage Mopar Muscle feel, my GTS is it.
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Well, disagree all you like. The handling performance of my Challenger, which is a street car that I've put over 60k miles on using as a daily driver, improved significantly when I switched from the SS springs that were correct for it's chassis weight to XHD's. No other changes were made when I swapped those springs. It stopped riding like a buckboard, and was no longer a tail happy, oversteering mess like it was with the Super Stock springs. Now, you can say that is my opinion, but as a former engineer that has designed suspension systems, and as someone that has autoX'd, attended quite a few track days, and received professional EVOC training, I will say it is my informed opinion. But no, I did not put a stopwatch to the car before and after so I suppose it is still technically my opinion.

I think we can stop this discussion, because based on the picture of your car your opinion of what it means to have a car that handles well is completely different than mine. I've driven cars set up as yours is, because that's how some of mine were set up when I bought them. And they handle exactly like an old musclecar- undersprung in the front, oversprung in the back, with rock hard tires and more body roll than you can shake a stick at. They handle like the Queen Mary, but with less predictability.

krazykuda said:
E-body SS springs are different than the a-body ones... apples and oranges...
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Super Stock springs are not unique to A,B, or E bodies. They are designated by chassis weight only. All Super Stock springs are the same length and have the same length front/rear segments, all have the same number of leafs and are staggered left and right except for the 3,800 lb chassis springs, they have an extra leaf on each side (7,8 instead of 6,7) . So, if you have properly matched your SS springs to the weight of your chassis, it's not an apples to oranges comparison, it's apples to apples. They should perform exactly the same if they are loaded as designed.

B/E bodies need 2" longer spring hangers to run SS springs because SS springs were designed around A-body spring lengths. In fact, when I removed the Super Stock springs from my Challenger, I installed them on my '71 EL5 GT, where they are still. Same exact spring dimensions. Obviously I have no intention of running the GT on the street like that because those springs are intended for a 3,400 lb chassis and would be even more unbearable on my Dart than they were on my Challenger, but I needed a set of springs to put the rear end back in the car to make it a roller again because the OE springs ended up on my other GT which came to me without a rear axle.

PawnCenter72 said:
the person who suggested them said it will sit correctly once they get broke in so might as well upgrade to the next best thing was my idea
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So, rather than running the correct springs for your usage and application, you went to ones that are designed specifically for drag racing and are going to be too stiff for your grocery getter application. Well, I tried.
 
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PawnCenter72 said:
I am wanting to change the stance of my dart so that the front sits lower then the back what size rim and tire can I go with and not have it rub or tub from stock here is my dart currently in the flat black and how I would like for it to look..... thank you in advance for your assistance

Another picture of stance for your thinking

Front tire BFG 155\80-15
Rear tire BFG 235\70-15
Stock rear leafs (original) with caltracs

no rubbing or clearance issues
20151126_131256 resized.jpg
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72bluNblu said:
So, rather than running the correct springs for your usage and application, you went to ones that are designed specifically for drag racing and are going to be too stiff for your grocery getter application. Well, I tried.
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If the SS springs are too stiff, then you're too old... :steering:
 
Factory 5 leaf with a extra leaf added. ( done by the previous owner) It has a firm ride but not harsh.
001.jpg
 
Damn,some whiners here..S/S 002/003 springs on my Scamp,add good shocks,torque the spring perches correctly (Thanks,Rusty Rat Rod!),they work just fine. This isn't a Cadillac,it's a Mopar...
 
PawnCenter72 said:
the person who suggested them said it will sit correctly once they get broke in so might as well upgrade to the next best thing was my idea
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Well, what youve done is let that person improve your car to a failure. You dont even know what a K frame is, and yet you rush in without any real knowledge of what you are doing, and order SS springs.
Youve already told us what you wanted to do with the car, and the STRIP WASNT one of them. That IS what these springs are designed for. You even gave us a picture of the stance you wanted. Wait until you put these SS springs on your car. It will look nothing like the stance you wanted. The *** end will be up in the air, and YES the right side will be higher. They are designed that way, so when the car squats on take off, the car goes level.

We all had to start somewhere, live and learn. I think this will be your first learn. Actually, 2nd after learning your car has a K frame.
 
Are you unhappy,because he made a decision,on his own? Let it be,and let live.....
 
Abodybomber said:
Damn,some whiners here..S/S 002/003 springs on my Scamp,add good shocks,torque the spring perches correctly (Thanks,Rusty Rat Rod!),they work just fine. This isn't a Cadillac,it's a Mopar...
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Read the thread from the beginning. Read what he wanted to do with the car.
Look at how he wanted the car to sit.
Theres no whining going on here. Most are just trying to help him achieve what he was asking for.

I suppose when he asks whats a good radial tire for my car, you will suggest some M/T slicks ?

This is some funny shat.:)
 
Johnny Dart said:
Read the thread from the beginning. Read what he wanted to do with the car.
Look at how he wanted the car to sit.
Theres no whining going on here. Most are just trying to help him achieve what he was asking for.

I suppose when he asks whats a good radial tire for my car, you will suggest some M/T slicks ?

This is some funny shat.:)
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You are obviously entitled,to your own opine. I would simply recommend some Gabriel /Monroe budget 70-71 Imperial 50/50 stock gas shocks,and a simple set of 245/60 series Cooper Cobra radials... This isn't rocket science......
 
Abodybomber said:
You are obviously entitled,to your own opine. I would simply recommend some Gabriel /Monroe budget 70-71 Imperial 50/50 stock gas shocks,and a simple set of 245/60 series Cooper Cobra radials... This isn't rocket science......
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I chose the heavier better ones because it has the power and ability to its going to be a weekend cruiser but if i'm going to change it I might as well upgrade and raise the value
 
I have to ask - this seems to be your first Dart - do you have previous automotive experience? a garage? tools? I am asking because changing out leaf springs can be difficult if you're not "ready"...
 
ScampMike said:
I have to ask - this seems to be your first Dart - do you have previous automotive experience? a garage? tools? I am asking because changing out leaf springs can be difficult if you're not "ready"...
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Been around hot rods, drag cars, etc my whole life just my first mopar I own a pawnshop so I am having them installed from a local guy just thought i'd check this thread out and has been helpful so far...... she just needs seat belts, a lug on one of the wheels and the dimmer switch and ill have it licensed get the look I'm wanting and then off to paint
 
PawnCenter72 said:
Been around hot rods, drag cars, etc my whole life just my first mopar I own a pawnshop so I am having them installed from a local guy just thought i'd check this thread out and has been helpful so far...... she just needs seat belts, a lug on one of the wheels and the dimmer switch and ill have it licensed get the look I'm wanting and then off to paint
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cool - lookin' forward to seeing what you come up with!
 
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