Charrlie_S
Well-Known Member
You should look at the photos of slant6racer's car, also. Top quality work. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=4802
225 turbo headers
- Thread starter 67valiant225
- Start date
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CCPcoatings.com
Member
Hows that bright coating look after being run on a turbo?
It hasn't changed, appreciably.
To be honest, our car hasn't had much time under boost (that will change, soon) so ours isn't a good example to look at right now.
We hope to get this engine to start making significant boost soon, though, and that may cause some cosmetic changes; we'll see.
I'll keep you apprised of any new developmnts in that area.
Thanks for your interest!
CCPcoatings.com
Member
That would be great. I'd be curious to see how it looks after a bit of use. Unfortunately, most Bright Ceramic doesn't hold up very well in hot side turbo apps. It's unfortunate your coater didn't warn you about that. If its strictly race you may get away with it a bit longer though.
Bill! I cant wait to see what your monster-of-a-slant runs. You should defiantly strap it to a dyno too! ..With video of course.. 8)
Well, this is basically a race-only car and not in any way, a show car, so the cosmetics are secondary. I willl surely keep you in mind as to any appearance changes due to excessive heat, so watch this thread in the future for reports of any changes.
I appreciate your interest and comments!!
A best-case-scenario would entail it running pretty much like Ryan Peterson's car IF we did everything right and could emulate his performance.
He obviously did everything right because his car runs 127mph in the quarter-mile with a 727 transmission (which eats power to the extent that his car might run 130 mph with a 904.)
We haven't done MUCH right so far, but we're stubborn and will keep at it 'til we get it right... or, as right as we are capable of. Time will tell...
Tom Wolfe (Shaker223) helped us a lot with this build, and the smartest thing we did was to build a copy-cat engine that is as much like his and Ryan's (they are very close to identical,) as we could, so we are just trying to do the best job we can to duplicate the horsepower-producing capabilities of those two engines.
Getting it (that power) down on the track is another problem altogether, but I, at least, have some experience with that facet of this operation; none with turbos or slants.
We appreciate the kind words and interest in our car! Most folks just look at it and shake their heads. saying, "Why didn't you just put a 360 in it???"
Well, both my racing partner and I already HAVE V8 cars (mine, a '72 Valiant with a Vortech supercharged 360 Magnum, and his, a '69 Dart GT with a 390hp 360 Magnum Mopar crate motor sporting Holley Electronic fuel injection, TTI headers and more... and we just wanted something "different."
We got it... LOL!
Now, we have to try to make it work.
Talk's cheap; we'll see!:banghead:
67valiant225
Member
Hey what is the diff between valiant and a valint 100 ?
robertob
Well-Known Member
No but I am basing my opinion on the theoretical advantage of EFI. Two identical motors, the EFI one will make more power, be more reliable and be easier to tune. No jets, no making the carb do things it was never designed to do, just change a few points on a chart and instant power. In addition, an EFI engine making that kind of power could be daily driven, it would be very difficult to set up a blow-through carb engine that would have good off-boost performance.
slant6racer
Well-Known Member
Bill & Charrlie, Thanks form the kind words. It has taken along time, the offical start of the turbo project was in 2006 when I got my ecu. Finally got the efi on in 2010 and now the turbo. I cant wait to get this combo working. Thanks again.
srixon4406
TURBO TOAD
Keep at it Will I've been watching your progress and its impressive also I didn't realize you were running methanol that's pretty cool.
I'm looking forward to the 2013 racer season.
I'm looking forward to the 2013 racer season.
Double post; sorry...
Just trim levels.
The V100 is the base, no frills model.
Thw V200 is a middle-of-the-road model with SOME upgrades (more chrome, better upholtery,and more equipment standard)
The Signet is the top-of-the-line model with all the bells and whistles.
That's all... just cosmetics, I think.
Tell me about it; I have a racing partner who does most of the work on the car because it's located at HIS shop (next-door to his house) and I am 35 miles away; my truck gets 18-mpg, so it's at least a $14.00 round trip, anytime I want to work on it. And, I'm on a "fixed" income... and, it's not fixed to well, believe me!:shock:
We got the carin 2009 (a junker, which had been abandoned in a field some 18 years ago) and it was a mess. Everything that moves (with the exception of the steering box) hade to be either been rebuilt or replaced. New windshield, interior (for the most part) and ALL the mechanical stuff...
Health issues have taken their toll on the time available for work, and lots of body work was necessary to make it somewhat presentable.
There are two FABO members who have motors that we bald-face copied beause they both seemed do-able for us, and both made a lot of power (somewhere around 500 HP, I think.) That would be Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson... we owe them for the "recipe" for this engine.
We have gotten the weight down to 2,680 pounds (without driver) with the original glass in it, but can only dream about a car as light as I'm sure yours must be. That car is awesome!
Please keep us apprised of your progress; that is an exciting project, for sure!!!
And, it's gorgeous!!!:cheers:
It looks like it's going about 200 mph, just sitting there!!!!
I am no engineer,and so I can't say with any authority, but I have read on several occasions, that there doesn't seem to be any significant total horsepower advantage. from a FI setup over a carb.
I would agree that the fuel curve under varying circumstances would no doubt, be more advantageous, so driveability would probably be better, overall, and full-throttle torque might well be improved in the lower rpms, so yes, if one has the expertise to dial-in a fuelie system that has the requisite tuneability, street driving and even mid-range torque would probably be better than with carburetion.
But, total power output (maximum horsepower) might not be superior.
That's just my two-cents worth and probably overpriced, at that!!
MJF
Well-Known Member
There is not much difference in max power with efi. More important is computer controlled ignition. That is what make much more difference, locked ignition is something from 80s.
How do you go about acquiring a computer controlled ignition setup (or, the information about how to build one) that has a correct spark advance curve for a boosted slant six that has 28 pounds of boost?
Who has done the research on such an engine to determine what it "likes"???
I'd love to have one to repace this "locked plate," but to be honest, the locked plate is a hedge against detonation *locked at 18 degrees, total) and I am really apprehensive about going beyond that number (18.)
Hi-boost slant sixes are so rare, it's really hard to find much information about what they like, in terms of spark advance.
Right now, with what information I can find, a locked plate seems like the safest way to go.
But, I'd switch to a computerized advance curve in a heartbeat, if I could find a tried-and-proven setup that had been well-researched, in terms of anti-detonation properties, and made more power at lower rpms.
Where am I going to find that? I don't know where to begin looking...
Thanks for any information.
robertob
Well-Known Member
One doesn't exist, you'll have to figure out your own advance curve. But you already have one - a flat 18 degree curve. Use something like Megajolt: EDIS, wasted spark, onboard MAP sensor. You can keep your 18 degrees total advance, just put 18 degrees at the top right side of the table (RPM vs. MAP). A NA slant with reasonable intake/exhaust likes 32-34 degrees total timing, stock timing is 30 degrees, all in by 1500 rpm or less. Most like 10 degrees at idle and for cruise you add in 10 degrees in the high vacuum rows. So there you have the atmospheric line of the timing chart, the cruise and high vac areas, and the high boost line of the timing chart. Then you can smooth it in from there to get a starting point.
If you have access to a load dyno (NOT a dynojet inertial dyno) it's pretty straightforward to set up an ignition map. Use det cans to listen for knock on the dyno, each run you can advance timing a couple of degrees and watch power output. Start out with your boost controller turned way down and creep up the chart. I've always had the luxury of tuning engines with a knock sensor but it can be done without one. EGT is a great timing tuning tool - EGT will increase as timing gets later. Power will also level off before you hit the detonation limit. So if you are at 18 degrees at full boost, and adding 2 degrees shows no power increase, go back to 18 or 19 and leave it there.
Anyway this is way OT, really it's not as hard as you think.
If you have access to a load dyno (NOT a dynojet inertial dyno) it's pretty straightforward to set up an ignition map. Use det cans to listen for knock on the dyno, each run you can advance timing a couple of degrees and watch power output. Start out with your boost controller turned way down and creep up the chart. I've always had the luxury of tuning engines with a knock sensor but it can be done without one. EGT is a great timing tuning tool - EGT will increase as timing gets later. Power will also level off before you hit the detonation limit. So if you are at 18 degrees at full boost, and adding 2 degrees shows no power increase, go back to 18 or 19 and leave it there.
Anyway this is way OT, really it's not as hard as you think.
It sounds like something that is going to require way more time than I would be willing or able to spend on it, for a variety of reasons; main one being I am 73, about to turn 74 next month, and whatwver time I have left on this planet, I can think of about a million things I would rather spend it doing than researching the vagaries of an optimum spark advance curve of a boosted slant six motor. The second reason is, this car is never going to need stock-type driveability, and since it is a race-only application, and 18 degrees is the maximum advance these engines like to "see" under full boost (and, who drag races with less?,) how would a "curve" benefit me?
I appreciate the time you took to write that great explanation; it was very well-written! But, in the final analysis, it's just not for me. If I had more time (I probably don't,) or if this was a street-driven project with driveability requirements, I'd probably go after it, but given the circumstances, I think my somewhat-limited time will be better spent working on hooking up what I've got, power-wise.
Thanks a lot for that detailed explanation; it was very interesting.:cheers:
Maybe one of the younger guys on FABO who's turbocharging a slant six can use this good information... There are a few out there.
robertob
Well-Known Member
I totally understand. Me, I'm not really interested in drag racing so I tend to think of things in terms of road-rally, which I am into.
That stuff will make you fat... ask me how I know...
Lol
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