318 tuning question

[cherokeechief79]

my sons 67 coronet wagon is just about done.
its got a 318 in it,a 4bbl holley and an old mallory box going to the distributer which doesnt have points anymore.
we didnt do any of this work and only putted around his bldg when we bought a few yrs back.
we took it for a maiden voyage yesterday.
it idles fine but has no power at all.
there is no smoke ,and doesnt appear to be any blowby.
i have the kickdown for the trans hooked up right and it didnt even kick down.
it feels like its got about 100 hp.
i tried advancing the timing by turning the distributer a bit and it didnt help.
the distributer is in strange too because the vac canister is pointing right at the manifold(forward).
could the distributer be in wrong?
im used to chevies which can go in on any tooth but these only go 2 ways right?

 

[RedFish]

I would suspect cam position. Seen it b4.

 

[toolmanmike]

my sons 67 coronet wagon is just about done.
its got a 318 in it,a 4bbl holley and an old mallory box going to the distributer which doesnt have points anymore.
we didnt do any of this work and only putted around his bldg when we bought a few yrs back.
we took it for a maiden voyage yesterday.
it idles fine but has no power at all.
there is no smoke ,and doesnt appear to be any blowby.
i have the kickdown for the trans hooked up right and it didnt even kick down.
it feels like its got about 100 hp.
i tried advancing the timing by turning the distributer a bit and it didnt help.
the distributer is in strange too because the vac canister is pointing right at the manifold(forward).
could the distributer be in wrong?
im used to chevies which can go in on any tooth but these only go 2 ways right?

Put a timing light on it and set it to 10° before as a start. If it doesn't run better with that, you need to look elsewhere.

 

[Dartswinger70]

Make sure the timing advance works, vacuum and that the dist counter weights aren't siezed and springs broke etc. also I had a 69 LA 318 they had nylon timing gears on them... if its stock that nylon cam gear may be very sloppy about now it may be time for a timing set. vacuum canister on dist is usually pointed off to passenger side maybe toward cyl 4 or 6 ish? but thats not the indicator you want the rotor pointed at cyl1 at TDC compression on an LA engine ...similar to small block chevy really...

 

[cherokeechief79]

thanks ill check all of these..........what do you mean by cam position?
im going to get it to tdc #1 ,line up the timing mark and pull the distributer.
for some reason the case of the distributer is way out of position because the vac nipple is pointing forward and hitting the manifold.
if i wanted to spin the drive gear a bit to get things lined up a bit better is it easy to do?
just lift it up somehow and spin it a bit?

 

[Dartswinger70]

on an LA engine turn engine to TDC take off dist cap see if rotor is pointing to number 1 (like small block chevy) if it isn't the timing chain may have jumped time, also turn crank both directions to check chain slop while watching the rotor... like said if its a stock nylon cam gear its toast its almost 60 year sold... nylon cam gears were toast in the 80s at 18-20 years old. So anyway if the rotor isnt pointing at #1 at TDC your cam position has moved. etc.

 

[cherokeechief79]

but cant the starting order of the wires start anywhere?
if i rotate the engine forward and backwards, how much of a delay should i see in the rotor movement?

 

[67Dart273]

1....There's a procedure in some of the service manuals to help determine if the cam has jumped time, AKA, worn timing components, especially the old nylon timing sprockets

2....Other than "convenient" positioning of the distributor advance, and "factory book" position of the plug wires, the position of the intermediate gear has nothing to do with timing. You can throw it in with no1 ready to fire, in any position, and wherever the rotor points, toss the no1 plug wire in that dist tower.

As said above, I would check that the mechanical advance is not stuck, rusted, damage, and that the vacuum advance works. I would attempt to verify cam timing. You also might want to get/ build a piston stop and be certain that the timing mark is actually correct

3...Carb. It's possible the power circuit of the carb is not working, and it's just not rich enough under acceleration. Verify that when the pedal is to the mat, that the carb throttles is actually fully opened

4.. A waggin is a heavy dog, and likely has high highway gears. Is it possible you expect more than it can deliver?

 

[Dartswinger70]

it will run with the wires any where but that means the distributor isnt set in correctly. for example if the wires are moved one tower over on the distributor that means the distributor is a tooth off. you also would run out of timing ajustment as the vacuum advance pot would possibly hit the intake etc. as for how far the rotor moves that is a loose measurement what that shows is timing chain slop. i would say a half inch is good if more more id suspect timing chain wear.

 

[cherokeechief79]

thank you guys!

 

[318willrun]

thank you guys!

• Fast and Free - Check to make sure the exhaust heat "flap" in the passenger exhaust manifold isn't froze shut. Seen it more than once. Then the heat eats up the exhaust valves.
• I'd do a quick compression check. That would tell a bit about the engine
• valve timing is separate from ignition timing. If the valve timing jumped, nothing you can do with the distributor will correct it.

 

[Slantsix64]

Before anything, check timing as Mike suggested, also double check that kickdown, and verify the acceleration pedal cable has no slack.

For the kick down I usually adjust it at WOT then I drive the car and extend it a little at a time to get it to kickdown when needed.

 

[318willrun]

i have the kickdown for the trans hooked up right and it didnt even kick down.
it feels like its got about 100 hp.

I re-read this ^^ is the throttle coming all the way open? With the car off, have somebody floor the gas pedal and see if the carb is coming open all the way. Many times when an aftermarket carb is installed, they dont' get the kickdown or the throttle adjusted right. Kickdown not doing it's job will fry your transmission and quickly!

 

[cherokeechief79]

yes its adjusted so wide open it pulls it to max

 

[AJ/FormS]

If the engine has a 4bbl (check), but is still using the 2bbl throttle bracket, and 2bbl throttle cable, then from inside the car, the gas pedal will not open the Secondaries properly. If someone has clamped the cable NOT at the ferrule, this is a dangerous situation. The Secondaries will work, but the KD will not, and it is very possible that the Throttle cable can stick at WOT, which is gunna scare the crap out of you. Find your ignition switch and practice shutting it off.
The 4bbl bracket, brings the cable anchor further forward, but the 2bbl cable is still too short to open the throttle 100% from the drivers seat.
And, the proper throttle linkage on the Holley, needs a LONGER top KD link to actually push the TV lever fully to the back. The 2bbl rod cannot physically do it. |Each part has to be individually inspected for correct operation, beginning with the bracket on the Holley.

A couple of pictures would make short work of this.

 

[Bewy]

Check that the timing is advancing with rpm, using a timing light, revving the engine & make sure the timing mark moves. Standing in front of the car, with timing light hooked up, the mark on the dampener should move CCW when the engine is revved to 3-4k rpm. No change suggests a problem with the centri weights inside the dist.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I was thinking I mis spoke the timing chain slack isnt so much about how far the rotor moves but how far the harmonic balancer moves untill the rotor moves if that makes sense what you are doing is checking the chain slack which is why you go one direction to take up the slack then go back watch the rotor while taking note of how far the crank moves untill the rotor starts moving. its more of a feel thing than a measurement

 

[cherokeechief79]

thanks all great things to look for......i just ordered a jegs distributer for it just to rule it out.
it should work with our setup and later on with the 360magnum we are building right?
its going to be carbed so the vac advance should be fine with the magnum i guess.
the current setup has an old mallory ignition box in it.
we would like to keep it.
when trying to twist the distributer i got shocked by the coil.
its definately getting a lot of spark!

 

[Dartswinger70]

Spark is good but timiming is critical. correct timing makes all the difference plus the advance curve once you get rolling from a stop etc. with the old points systems tuning was set points, set timing, set carb recheck timing etc each carb ajustment had an effect etc. electronic is same procedure, but youll find once timing is set it stays fairly consistent on electronic.