340 Oil Priming Question First Start

[340inabbody]

Hey guys I am in the process of starting up the old 340 that’s been sitting for 5 years after body restoration.

1. 5 quarts of 20-50 added to the full line on the dipstick
2. All plugs removed.
3. Dizzy pulled
4. Manual drill with hex priming stick
5. 2000 RPM right angle drill
6. Oil pressure measured at block using only brass solid connections.
7. 60 PSI measured @2000 drill RPM which I believe equates to 4000 RPM motor speed.?.

Not seeing any oil up at the driver valves (valve covers removed). See a small amount of pooling of oil on the passenger side. Was expecting to see flow but I don’t see anything let alone a river @60psi.

What gives? Thoughts?

Thanks,
Ron

 

[Locomotion]

Rotate the engine bit-by-bit and reprime. Gotta line up the passage holes. Ideally, prime it while somebody else rotates it manually.

 

[340inabbody]

Rotate the engine bit-by-bit and reprime. Gotta line up the passage holes. Ideally, prime it while somebody else rotates it manually.

Does this mean that in this crank position the oil galleys are blocked AND the 60psi pressure reading is not accurate ie bogus?

 

[GTX JOHN]

No Oil pressure reading is fine.
Oil only goes to rockers in a few certain positions of
the engine rotation. Rotate it a bit at a time as Myron
said in post #2. He knows these engines as well as
anyone I know!

 

[4spdragtop]

Yep, like loco said rotate engine slowly at crank bolt while running drill. There are at least 2 if not 3 DIFFERENT positions the engine will oil. My 340 was different than most on here.
Good luck!

 

[340inabbody]

Yep, like loco said rotate engine slowly at crank bolt while running drill. There are at least 2 if not 3 DIFFERENT positions the engine will oil. My 340 was different than most on here.
Good luck!

I don’t know if my reach is that long lol. Seriously I unfortunately work alone. Looks like it will be crank spin crank spin crank spin crank spin crank spin lol

 

[Dan the man]

I'll probably get on this one. Once you know that you have oil pressure ( which you have already established ). I would install the distributor and remove the spark plugs and spin the engine over with the starter till you see the valve train oiling. Since you have already primed the oil pump and have oil pressure this is the best way to oil the top end. I've done this several times over the years

 

[340inabbody]

I'll probably get on this one. Once you know that you have oil pressure ( which you have already established ). I would install the distributor and remove the spark plugs and spin the engine over with the starter till you see the valve train oiling. Since you have already primed the oil pump and have oil pressure this is the best way to oil the top end. I've done this several times over the years

This sounds a lot easier as well! I can even have my wife turn the key while I wait and watch for the fountains of youth to spill out!
Thanks this will taste great and less filling!

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I'll probably get on this one. Once you know that you have oil pressure ( which you have already established ). I would install the distributor and remove the spark plugs and spin the engine over with the starter till you see the valve train oiling. Since you have already primed the oil pump and have oil pressure this is the best way to oil the top end. I've done this several times over the year

Best way I can think of to kill a cam. Or the bearings or bushings in roller lifters.

It’s pretty simple to turn the engine by hand to get oil up top.

Laying on the starter to do it is asking for cam failure.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

This sounds a lot easier as well! I can even have my wife turn the key while I wait and watch for the fountains of youth to spill out!
Thanks this will taste great and less filling!

DON’T DO IT. There is no reason to do that unless you want to invite misery into your world.

That’s wrong in so many ways it’s not funny.

Bad internet advice is why guys junk more parts than any other reason.

Don’t do it…

 

[AndyF]

If you have an extra cam on hand you can see where the oil holes are and figure out where the crankshaft needs to be to oil the top end. All cams should be drilled the same way since I'm sure it is part of the spec.

On a big block one side oils when the crank is TDC split overlap. The other side oils after the crankshaft is rotated 450 degrees.

 

[340inabbody]

Best way I can think of to kill a cam. Or the bearings or bushings in roller lifters.

It’s pretty simple to turn the engine by hand to get oil up top.

Laying on the starter to do it is asking for cam failure.

Just trying to learn. Why is this so much worse than hand priming? Is it the initial movement not having oiling? If the oil pump is primed shouldn’t that oil flow right away?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Just trying to learn. Why is this so much worse than hand priming? Is it the initial movement not having oiling? If the oil pump is primed shouldn’t that oil flow right away?

Cranking the engine slowly like that on a new cam will almost always flatten a cam lobe.

Roller lifters don’t like slow RPM either. That’s why I like my idle to be between 950-1000 RPM.

The slow turning cam with almost no oil coming off the rods is a sure fire way to kill your engine.

Somewhere on FABO someone posted where to set the crank to get each side to oil. I’ve seen it but I don’t remember where it was.

Find that. Set the crank where it should be and prime it up. Then rotate it to the other number and do it again.

The other thing is when you are ready, make damn sure you have fuel and spark. Make sure the timing is correct. That means during break in you do NOT want to retard the timing a bunch.

Retarded timing makes heat. Heat is bad when it’s late because of retarded timing. I’ve seen exhaust valves stick that had over .0030 on them. That happens because combustion got started late so the heat generated is late and the valve has to eat up that heat. No amount of clearance will save severely retarded timing.

To that end, I set the crank at 40 degrees BTDC and stick the distributor in. Then I grab the rotor, turn it to full advance and line up the rotor with the number 1 wire. Bolt it down and crack it off.

I have a no key cranking policy. I just don’t do it.

FWIW, I have a buddy that just couldn’t stand cold starting his engine. So he would lay on the starter to build pressure.

Only took a couple of races and he started shitting lifters. That’s because at cranking speeds the roller wheel skids and slides and it beats up the needles. Bushing lifters don’t like laying on the starter either.

There isn’t a single good reason I can think of to ever lay on the starter to get oil pressure. Ever.

 

[340inabbody]

Cranking the engine slowly like that on a new cam will almost always flatten a cam lobe.

Roller lifters don’t like slow RPM either. That’s why I like my idle to be between 950-1000 RPM.

The slow turning cam with almost no oil coming off the rods is a sure fire way to kill your engine.

Somewhere on FABO someone posted where to set the crank to get each side to oil. I’ve seen it but I don’t remember where it was.

Find that. Set the crank where it should be and prime it up. Then rotate it to the other number and do it again.

The other thing is when you are ready, make damn sure you have fuel and spark. Make sure the timing is correct. That means during break in you do NOT want to retard the timing a bunch.

Retarded timing makes heat. Heat is bad when it’s late because of retarded timing. I’ve seen exhaust valves stick that had over .0030 on them. That happens because combustion got started late so the heat generated is late and the valve has to eat up that heat. No amount of clearance will save severely retarded timing.

To that end, I set the crank at 40 degrees BTDC and stick the distributor in. Then I grab the rotor, turn it to full advance and line up the rotor with the number 1 wire. Bolt it down and crack it off.

I have a no key cranking policy. I just don’t do it.

FWIW, I have a buddy that just couldn’t stand cold starting his engine. So he would lay on the starter to build pressure.

Only took a couple of races and he started shitting lifters. That’s because at cranking speeds the roller wheel skids and slides and it beats up the needles. Bushing lifters don’t like laying on the starter either.

There isn’t a single good reason I can think of to ever lay on the starter to get oil pressure. Ever.

Good advice thank you. I’ve read some of what you’re describing here. BTW this is a flat tapet motor and was running 5 years ago. So there is no cam break in needed. I’ll do it by hand and get both sides oiled up. Will make sure I have plenty of initial advance to light her up as well.

 

[Dan the man]

Best way I can think of to kill a cam. Or the bearings or bushings in roller lifters.

It’s pretty simple to turn the engine by hand to get oil up top.

Laying on the starter to do it is asking for cam failure.

I don't think that you could turn the engine over by hand fast enough to get the oil to the top end of the engine

 

[Dan the man]

This sounds a lot easier as well! I can even have my wife turn the key while I wait and watch for the fountains of youth to spill out!
Thanks this will taste great and less filling!

Is this a new engine or one that's already been ran?

 

[340inabbody]

Is this a new engine or one that's already been ran?

This is not a new engine. This engine was running but sitting for four or five years while the body was getting done in the car with oil. Fresh oil was added fresh coolant as I said in the first post all the plugs are out as well as the distributor, I fogged the cylinders, drained all the fuel, removed the carburetor. I figured since it’s so long that I should be smart and not lazy and prime it.

 

[CFD244]

I don't think that you could turn the engine over by hand fast enough to get the oil to the top end of the engine

Bad advice @Dan the man .....The engine doesn't have to spin to get oil to the top end. You only have to find the sweet spots and run the drill. Oil will pour out of the rockers.

@340inabbody ....Hang on, I'll look up the crank positions I used.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I don't think that you could turn the engine over by hand fast enough to get the oil to the top end of the engine

You turn it over by hand until the holes in the cam line up with the holes in the block. It will oil the rockers with the crank sitting still. It doesn't need to turn over to oil them.

 

[Inertia]

There was gonna be a "sticky" about it, but . . .

 

[CFD244]

@340inabbody ........

The passenger side rockers get oil when the balancer mark is 90* BTDC on the #1 compression stroke.

Now, rotate the crank past the TDC mark all the way around and stop when the mark is 20* ATDC. This location will oil the Drivers side.(Technically this would be 20* ATDC on the #1 exhaust stroke.

Make sense

 

[340inabbody]

@340inabbody ........

The passenger side rockers get oil when the balancer mark is 90* BTDC on the #1 compression stroke.

Now, rotate the crank past the TDC mark all the way around and stop when the mark is 20* ATDC. This location will oil the Drivers side.(Technically this would be 20* ATDC on the #1 exhaust stroke.

Make sense

Yup and the good thing is I will be able to confirm this with that bubbling crude! Oil that is…black gold Texas tea.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Does this mean that in this crank position the oil galleys are blocked AND the 60psi pressure reading is not accurate ie bogus?

No it means what he said. It means the engine must be rotated bit by bit to align the oil passages in the camshaft with those in the cam bearings and block before the top gets any oil. So you need to rotate the engine slowly while you prime.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Just keep in mind that not everyone has found oil to the top using the methods described. Sometimes it's at those points and sometimes not. Just word to the wise.

 

[340inabbody]

No it means what he said. It means the engine must be rotated bit by bit to align the oil passages in the camshaft with those in the cam bearings and block before the top gets any oil. So you need to rotate the engine slowly while you prime.

I’ll be training the wife on manning the drill whilst I crank the crank and checking for flow and be mindful of the crank position CFD described above.

Geeze sounds like a cheesy **** script…

Thanks!