360-1 Indy 245 cnc heads

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. pittsburghracer

    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    F000BB17-6F0F-456A-9BB1-AA176FE61AFB.jpeg 7B8FB784-87BF-4063-B090-21F12D17B0C5.jpeg 9AB72FC7-3ACC-4E71-80DA-AD2C458FF3BF.jpeg 8B301B76-992B-453B-B811-BCFE4E2E96EB.jpeg 42CA7D9C-74FC-4DFD-9255-4FB5EC350955.jpeg E58CAFDE-47FA-4A94-B0C6-AFDD96C7A2E0.jpeg 5AF6C0BA-2F0F-4808-84D4-2700865301B2.jpeg well I thought I lost my opportunity to flow test my buddies Indy heads but he dropped it off Thursday for my son to put on his engine. He called me over the weekend and said he would pay me to flow the unmodified 345 cnc’d head. Well after Church today I spent hours flowing not only that head but also the one that was leaking water in an exhaust port and unsuccessfully I tried to have it welded. I also did some air speed testing. I will post the numbers tomorrow but here are some pictures.
     
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    • pittsburghracer

      pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      • Jadaharabi

        Jadaharabi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Are those marks around the valve seats inside the chamber there some kind of speed Secret?
         
      • famous bob

        famous bob mopar misfit

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        LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY CNC`D-------
         
      • pittsburghracer

        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Yes this is a stock 245 cnc’d head. The marks you are looking at are probably the few that weren’t touched during the process. I was kinda shocked at how well these things flowed. Would I do more work to it if they were mine? Yes. Would I buy a set? Yes, if I could get heads with untouched exhaust ports. In my eyes the amount of metal they took out I couldn’t “fix” what I feel is done wrong and the airspeed and flow shows me that.
         
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        • Krooser

          Krooser Reform School Graduate

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          Today's approach to porting does not include smooth ports and chambers. The flow is better when the material is dimpled or otherwise textured... think of a golf ball that flies farther with dimples.
           
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          • gregcon

            gregcon Well-Known Member

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            Probably true, but you also gotta figure those ridges cost money to hand-polish out. Plus, when you hand work them you lose the same-ness of them.

            Especially in the chambers...those ridges must be prone to holding carbon and creating hot spots.
             
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            • jazak5

              jazak5 Well-Known Member

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              cnc was programed for rough/fast speed rate//plus a smoother finish would require more material removal//trade off? hard to do with inconsistencies of a previously cast item being "fine tuned" verses machining a billet block
               
            • rumblefish360

              rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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              Looking forward to the numbers Pittsburghracer
               
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              • gregcon

                gregcon Well-Known Member

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                The single reason 'technically' the program would leave a rougher finish is machine time. A smoother finish generally will take longer to produce; you're taking more, smaller passes.
                 
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                • Wyrmrider

                  Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  intake port ok
                  ex and chamber no
                  IMHO prove me wrong
                  I'd be checking
                   
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                  • PRH

                    PRH Well-Known Member

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                    I can’t really tell how those are from the pics, but on their BB CNC heads, sometimes the transition from the valve job into the exhaust bowl can leave a lot to be desired....... and improving it can sometimes result in pretty big increases in flow.

                    One set of SR’s I had here picked up over 30cfm on the exhaust side by recutting the seat and blending it in to the bowl.
                     
                  • rumblefish360

                    rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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                    So, you have owned a set then?
                     
                  • pittsburghracer

                    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    After my 2.2 mile walk today I made three stops for my son trying to find some starter wire anchors for a car he is working on for a Friend with the heads I flow tested. Couldn’t find any so I grabbed my Harbor Freight list I always have nearby and set off on the 45 mile round trip and they had them. 170.00 later I set off for home. I didn’t get a chance to organize the flow sheets so hopefully tomorrow. I will say I love my flowbench and digital electronics but where a fluid manometer can’t react fast enough to catch “jumpy” numbers a digital bench will. I don’t have or use a button to set my number so I usually list the high and low at a given lift. To guys that play with flowbenches they will understand easier what I’m trying to say. When I port heads I always try to calm that jumpiness and the used head shows that somewhat. The bolt bulge is pushed over “not enough” and the cnc Ridge was removed from the shortside. Not worth the 1400.00 charges but that’s another story. Hope that included porting the intake. I didn’t even really look at it or I would have probably had it on my porting bench. I didn’t reread all of this so I hope it makes sense. Lol
                     
                  • mini

                    mini Small Bore Long Stroke

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                    Busy weekend but don't forget flow numbers ;-)
                     
                  • pittsburghracer

                    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Ok now some flow numbers. To help stop confusion the head listed as NEW is a 360-1 Indy 245 CNC'd head. The one listed as old is ALSO a 360-1 Indy 345 CNC'd head but reworked by Ryan (Shadydale) and another head porter in Pa. This is the one that has a hole in the exhaust port that I tried getting welded for him with little success so he is putting the one NEW head on.


                    New head Intake
                    .100-----55 cfm
                    .200----138
                    .300----191
                    .400----248
                    .450----273
                    .500----295----380-400--- fast but not to fast
                    .550----312-320--jumpy---air speed pegged at 401 PLUS across short-turn
                    .600----345-350
                    .650----351-358
                    .700----325-330----noisy----air jumping short-side. You can hear this with your ears with muffs on.
                    .750----328-334
                    .800----332-342
                    .850----322-338

                    New head Exhaust
                    .200---103
                    .300----135
                    .400----162
                    .500----185
                    .600----197
                    .700----210
                    .800----223

                    I totally HATE the way they went about doing this exhaust port and as much as I like what the intake side could be with very little work there is to much metal removed on the exhaust side to do what I would want to do. Airspeed on the exhaust should be at least 325 FPS. I had to really search to find 275 FPS. Old head numbers coming.
                     
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                    • PRH

                      PRH Well-Known Member

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                      350 on the intake...... that’s a pretty nice number.

                      210@.700, 223@.800 on the exhaust...... not great.
                      How does the exhaust “sound”?

                      2.10 and 1.65 valves?
                      45* seats?
                       
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                      • mini

                        mini Small Bore Long Stroke

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                        Those exhaust numbers are good but worse then my Edelbrock heads..
                         
                      • pittsburghracer

                        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        The exhaust wasn’t really noisy but believe it or not the Speedmaster Head was much quieter. Not sure what valve angles but since they were out of the box I’m betting you are right. The seats were lightly rusted and I cleaned them up with transmission fluid and gray fiber cloth. The other shop north of me assembled the heads, blued them, and lapped them in. To me the exhaust were pathetic and even the intake ports were to jumpy and wouldn’t go on my engine that way.
                         
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                        • pittsburghracer

                          pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          The heads will have him in the low 10’s easily in his Duster on his 408 pump gas engine.
                           
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                          • yellow rose

                            yellow rose Master Of Insanity

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                            Pay attention readers...PBR is giving free lessons on why flow numbers are NOT the do all, be all everything to die for numbers.

                            THANKS PBR.
                             
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                            • pittsburghracer

                              pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              Thank you. Sir
                               
                            • ValiantRacing

                              ValiantRacing Well-Known Member

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                              :thumbsup:
                               
                            • Krooser

                              Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                              They are designed to be that way...a smooth finish is going backwards.
                               
                            • pittsburghracer

                              pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                              BDEF05CA-0BF3-4E27-8539-F8DEDD647C33.jpeg 3AFF9FB7-0753-4962-B790-F9F0120E4443.jpeg 2841D7B4-0084-4BA8-9303-F77A979327B9.jpeg 972D84C4-E858-4242-ADD4-D113736DBE81.jpeg I will be pouring a port with mold compound for future knowledge like I did on my B1 heads. Intake side only of course
                               
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