360 build recommendations please...

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danmc77

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Ok guys, I've searched and read several different engine build threads and would like to get some of your thoughts on what I'm looking to do. Here's my story:

A couple years ago, I rebuilt a '77 block 360 for my '89 Ramcharger truck and went more of a low-end torque build. Forgive me, but I don't remember EXACTLY every component I used but this was the build:
.30 over, line honed,new bearings all around, don't know the part number or brand pistons but final CR is between 9:1 and 9.5:1 for pump gas (sorry -can't remember). Stock crank, engine balanced, hi-flow oil pump, stock 4bbl iron speadbore intake, MP electronic ignition, CompCam XE262h-10 grind, windage tray, non-smog thermoquad (larger primary bore version) rebuilt by DemonSizzler to the specs of my engine build, J heads w/ 2.02 valves and 3 angle vavle job, stock valve train, performance springs. Hardened seats, new guides, seals, etc. Stock connecting rods.

The engine has less than 10,000 miles on it, and in my 6000lb Ramcharger w/ 33" tires and 3.91 gears, it moved pretty well. Anyway, I'm going to part out the truck and want to keep the engine for my 73 Duster. I have a Performer RPM intake, so I was planning to use that and dump the stock intake. Other than that, I guess I'll be looking for a different cam too. The Duster will be in stock trim with a stock rebuild 904, 8 3/4 rear, 2 1/2 exhaust and headers.

My goal: Nice street car that runs low 12's to high 11's

So, here are my questions:

1.) Is my goal realistic? if not - what should I expect with this build? What do I need to do to get these times?
2.) What cam should I use - all street/no track time
3.) what rear gears - again street only car
4.) I am considering a home port job on the heads - are templates available or is it not necessary?
5.) What torque converter stall?

Sorry for the long post and thanks.
 
Well the cam is to small for that kind of performance and the valves are big for thr street. So I would suggest a 1.88 valve set of heads and a XE284 cam with a 3800 stall converter and 3.91 gears, and if you can stand more gear then use more as this will help the cam and heads work better. Then if your going to stay with the heads that you have then a 4.10 or 4.30 will be in order IMO.
 
I agree with the heads and gears. A tire about 26 - 27 inch will do. The cam, is good, someone will allways say theres is better, There alot like underwear.

Some older builds (Like the MP tips section) use stock heads with 2.02 to get the job done, but also use a bigger cam as well. I think that 12sec. tip section was a 292 purple cam. It's kind of ruff for the street. Doable, but ruff idle and will not wake up until 3000 rpm's.

A split duration cam is something you'll want with the set up you describe.
There are no template for that style/year head. I don't think you'll need to port the heads for a mid to low(ish) 12 second run. If you fall short, then I'd bet just a pocket porting and good valve work will do the trick.
Get that car to hook up well and most of the battle is done.
 
Thanks for the replies!

so I should go with 1.88 valve heads to go faster? Don't they have tiny ports? Should I port match or do any work to the heads? I actually have a set of 1.88 J's, and a set of "swirl port" heads off an '89 318. As I said, the 2.02 valve heads are rebuilt, but the others would need some work.

Ok, so if I make the following changes:

1.88 valve stock J heads
Performer RPM intake
XE284 cam
3800 stall
3.91's
27" tires

Where am I at? Should I do ANY work to those heads?
 
Oh yes do work to the heads, and unless your ports have been hogged out you'll be way ahead, as port velocity and flow will be better in low lifts with the 1.88's and on the street they are pretty much unmatched, velocity is king. As for the ports they are similar on all sbd heads, just gasket match and bowl blend them and your done, with a good VJ. All the rest looks very good for street.
 
If you have 1.88 J heads, some basic prep work and valve work, job etc....should be all you'll need. The idea of it all is superior torque and velocity from a smaller valve.
I can't see a bowl porting hurting performance.

I would not use a 318 head on a 360 when a 360 head is on the shelf next to it.
 
Sometimes you just beat me to the punch, but thats ok........................Damn..................lol
 
WHO ME !??! LOL. Well....what can I say.
 
Great. You guys have been a BIG help - thanks!

One last question - I've never used anything other than a stock converter before - how street friendly is a 3800 stall? How does it affect weekend trips to the store or just cruising around?
 
This guy wants to run the Q in the low 12's or high 11's and you are telling him to use a 1.88 intake valve??

No way, the only way hes going to run that fast is to rev that motor up and use a 4.10 gear in back.

I say keep your heads you have, sounds like a nice build. In fact you might just want to run it as is and see how you like it. 13 seconds in the Q is pretty fun, your Duster is a light weight car, you might be surprise how good it goes. Sure it could use more cam with the car so light but compare to that truck its going to be way faster.

I would work on getting rid of weight, a glass hood, alum. wheels. You are going to have a hard time hooking it up too, not much weight back there.
 
danmc77 said:
Great. You guys have been a BIG help - thanks!

One last question - I've never used anything other than a stock converter before - how street friendly is a 3800 stall? How does it affect weekend trips to the store or just cruising around?
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The motors going to scream---oh you can drive it everyday it just going to rev alot.

3800 stall speed, keep your 2.02 valves, theres nothing wrong with it. Mopar knew what they were doing using it in all 1968-1970 340 motors, even the ones with 3.55 gears.

It run better-maybe not much but better-than the 1.88. And you already have it, why change it ? Spend your money else where.

I am using that on my 318, haven't notice no power loss at lower speeds. In fact it seems to make more power everywhere compare to my 318 heads.

They are nice castings, # 4772576 MP, maybe thats why. Muscle Motors thought they are better than the J or X heads. I got E-bay lucky with a buy it now and seen it after it was on for only 2 hours. There really is good buys on E-bay still.
 
danmc77 said:
Great. You guys have been a BIG help - thanks!

One last question - I've never used anything other than a stock converter before - how street friendly is a 3800 stall? How does it affect weekend trips to the store or just cruising around?
Click to expand...

It all depends on what you are willing to live with,their are plenty of guys driving 9 second "streetcars" all over town and plenty of guys who cant stand anything more than 3.23s and a cam with more duration than your basic 270 comp.You can get a custom stall that will give you 3800 flash and still have some drivability but the car will be on the edge of truly streetable with 4.10s and a xe284,long cruises will not be so enjoyable.If your only looking to run in the mid to upper 12s you can do it with a milder combo and not give up so much streetability.
 
lead69 said:
It all depends on what you are willing to live with,their are plenty of guys driving 9 second "streetcars" all over town and plenty of guys who cant stand anything more than 3.23s and a cam with more duration than your basic 270 comp.You can get a custom stall that will give you 3800 flash and still have some drivability but the car will be on the edge of truly streetable with 4.10s and a xe284,long cruises will not be so enjoyable.If your only looking to run in the mid to upper 12s you can do it with a milder combo and not give up so much streetability.
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Yeah, I'm not really looking for "barely streetable." I'd like be able to take it on the weekends and drive it for the day - doesn't need to drive like a BMW, but I'd like to enjoy the cruise. I guess the 3.55's might be better for the longer drives too
 
Well I probaly sound like a broken record but you cant go wrong with 3.55s,a xe274 or close (voodoo or comp xehl),and a good bowl port on your 360 heads.This will definitely get you running in the upper 12s and with tuning/tweaking mid 12s arent far off,you will still need a good convertor,exhaust,manifold but theyre things you were looking at anyhow.My brother runs a 73 challenger (full weight) with 3.55s and a 360 with a little more compression but slightly less cam and the car runs 12.50s at 107 no problem and is a blast to drive.
 
No way I'd ditch the heads. K>I>S>S... Toss a bigger cam in it and run it. The XE274 will need dual springs, new retainers, and locks. Going to smaller valve heads simply isnt worth it, and in a light car with a decent stall and gearing (I'd go 3.55 and kep the tires stock diameter) the car will run way into the 12s. With some traction aids and careful suspension tuning, low 12s. I dont think 11s are realistic without some bigger mods. But in any case, now way I'd run a 2.02 valve with that package. Different strokes for different folks...lol
 
Eveything you guys are saying sounds great to me but one thing... he wants to run a 904 ? Get yourself a SB 727. It will be more friendly.
 
Thanks again for the help guys - I have a lot of things to think about. I guess the easiest thing is to run what I've got and tweak it from there. Definetly getting a bigger cam, using the RPM intake, and I'll try both heads to see what runs better.

hemihead said:
Eveything you guys are saying sounds great to me but one thing... he wants to run a 904 ? Get yourself a SB 727. It will be more friendly.
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I have a 727 I can use, but he 904 has already been rebuilt. I figure it's lighter and can probably take what this engine can put out, right?
 
This hobby is all about trial and error. Nothing is correct for everybody everytime. I have two teens with two mopars. We built both cars from the junk yard. The engines, trans, body ect. were all rebuilt by my sons and I. Both cars have 360s. 74 duster has .480 cam, air gap intake, 670 holley, 1.88 intake, j head, 9.1 heper pistons, 2800 stall, 727. The other is 72 dart, .440 cam, stock cast intake, 600 holley, 2.02 j head, 8.5 cast rebuilder pistons, stock conv, 500 od. Both had the same head work besides valve size and port matched intakes. The 72 dart is .3 tenths quicker with the same axle ratio. Looking the numbers I have to think the 2.02 valves in the dart are a huge advantage over the bigger cam, better intake and stall in the duster. The dart is easier to drive because of the mild cam and overdrive and they both get about the same mpg. The dart gets alittle better milage but not much.
 
1.88 for mid to low 12's...it is possible, sure, however, now were throwing in 3.55's, ?????
Procharge it and forget it.
 
Now that you mention light, what is the weight of this car? That will have alot to do with overall time.
 
rumblefish360 said:
1.88 for mid to low 12's...it is possible, sure, however, now were throwing in 3.55's, ?????
Procharge it and forget it.
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I'm not against 3.91's, but this car won't see any track time so I would like it to be somewhat comfortable to drive. I'm just a little weary of 3.91's and a 3800 stall for the street. If low 12's aren't within reach using this block and rotating assembly, that's what I'm trying to find out. I would like a nice comprimise of acceptable street manners and low 12 ETs.

I know it sounds like I have no clue, but I've rebuilt several engines and have a passion for working on cars. The thing is, I've never tracked a car so I'm not really sure what a 12 sec car feels like. I have no clue how fast any of my cars have actually run. I've never driven a high stall converter or 4.10's. I just don't want to invest $ into something that I can't drive to a local show or around town.
 
OH, if you want a 11 sec combo, try this out;

10-1 min. (Zero deck piston) pocket ported gasket match 2.02/1.60 360 head (Slightly milled) on a single plane intake, (A TorkerII would do, but....)750 min. cfm with 1-3/4 headers into a "X" piped 3 inch exhaust.
Cam, a MoPar 296/.557 or equal would do it. (Comp cams solid 294 for example, he he he)
That'll give ya solid 11's.
 
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