360 heads on a 318 of any benefit?

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The latest 5.7L Hemis also have VVT (more like a system that just advances and retards the cam timing a few degrees) and an active intake manifold. What's funny is that the new Hemis are cam-in-block engines with 2 valves per cylinder and they're still more efficient than the Ford OHC engines and V8's made by a lot of other manufacturers.
 
That high tech intake was on GMs in the early 90s. The Vortec series all used them. Nissan and Honda use a seperate oil feed for the lifters. When the engine hits a certain rpm, a solenoid opens and the additional oil pumps the lifters up. That is how they do it. I own a DOHC Neon and I love it. But, the power is made by a 2.0L. Hondas did it with 1.8L... In terms of size, that's about the difference between a 360" and a 400" V8. Ford's DOHC 4.6L in 2003 put out 305hp from 281" or about 1.1hp/inch with 320 pound feet of torque. In 2003. The '03 Hemi was 345hp from 345" or 1hp/inch, with 375 pound feet. The hemi IMO was almost obsolete when it was released. It's cool, but nothing special.
 
I'd like to get back to this guy's original issue. The 360 heads were used on 318 cop car engines in the Diplomat. It had a dual plane manifold and was topped by a Rochester Quadrajet. The engine supposedly used the 360 HP cam, but I can't find anything to back this up.

The 318 in my Demon has a Performer, 625 cfm AFB, 302 heads, and the wild Summit cam (aka Crane Fireball). Throttle response on the engine is good. The engine has not been on a dyno. I think I'm looking for the same thing you are. To make up for a little softness on the bottom end, I'm sticking an 8.75 rear with 3.55:1 gears in it.
 
72 Demon said:
I'd like to get back to this guy's original issue. The 360 heads were used on 318 cop car engines in the Diplomat. It had a dual plane manifold and was topped by a Rochester Quadrajet. The engine supposedly used the 360 HP cam, but I can't find anything to back this up.
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Not as far as I know. I'm still thinking, (Not super sure on this) it was a standard 2bbl 318 cam that was used.
 
moper said:
That high tech intake was on GMs in the early 90s. The Vortec series all used them. Nissan and Honda use a seperate oil feed for the lifters. When the engine hits a certain rpm, a solenoid opens and the additional oil pumps the lifters up. That is how they do it. I own a DOHC Neon and I love it. But, the power is made by a 2.0L. Hondas did it with 1.8L... In terms of size, that's about the difference between a 360" and a 400" V8. Ford's DOHC 4.6L in 2003 put out 305hp from 281" or about 1.1hp/inch with 320 pound feet of torque. In 2003. The '03 Hemi was 345hp from 345" or 1hp/inch, with 375 pound feet. The hemi IMO was almost obsolete when it was released. It's cool, but nothing special.
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That's nice that GM was using them in the early 90's, I'll take your word for it. This is the first I've heard of GM using that same tech. Ford started doing it in 93, so it makes sense that they would have been....Chrysler was.
Here's a link: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us110422.htm
You can do the math for this engine , too. Mine is 225 hp and 255 lb.ft. of torque at a whopping 3.2L...thats 197 CI's. That's a SOHC!
That brings me to my next point.....

Soooo, your assertion that a late model Hemi is "cool, but nothing special", is based on the example you gave? A smaller engine that uses twice as many valves and four times as many cams to make 10% more power per cubic inch, while being 64 CI smaller? That's great. You do realize that, generally speaking, smaller engines are inherently more efficient, right?
It also should be noted that you are comparing the first year 5.7 Hemi to the 11th year Ford engine and that that engine was the top-of-the-line N/A 4.6L. Great comparison.:-D

If you seriously believe that the Hemi was "obsolete when it was released", you should really read more.:read2:
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/chrysler-hemi.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0410_daimlerchrysler_new_hemi/index.html
 
If you were to stroke the 318 with a 360 crank, wouldn't the 360 heads work out better? I know there's other work involved besides just slapping in the crank and heads, such as turning the crank to fit the 318 mains and probably the pushrods to fit the crank. Am I way off base here? I'm still learning about the internal operation, but from what little I do know, it seems like it would work because the velocity would be increased from the longer stroke.
 
64, If you add stroke, it's not a 318 anymore. In my opinion, stroke is THE single most important detail of picking a head package for an engine.

Dave - I read plenty, and yes, I'm aware of what you noted. I'm also aware that virtually nothing on the new hemi is new design, only new to Mopar. The smaller engines are much further advanced that the Hemi is. In fact, even the idea for the multi-cylinder dropping for mileage was out in the late 70s and 80s with GM's Caddy 4-6-8 engines. A few advanced parts arre used. The chamber is great. But nothing state of the art for the industry. Just state of the art for Mopar. Which was my original point. It's only an opinion. I'd give your advice back... try doing more reading. And not just magazines and advertising mopar hype.
 
Stroked, it should be around 345-353 CID, depending on the bore if it was stroked with a 360 crank, right?
 
moper said:
64, If you add stroke, it's not a 318 anymore. In my opinion, stroke is THE single most important detail of picking a head package for an engine.

Dave - I read plenty, and yes, I'm aware of what you noted. I'm also aware that virtually nothing on the new hemi is new design, only new to Mopar. The smaller engines are much further advanced that the Hemi is. In fact, even the idea for the multi-cylinder dropping for mileage was out in the late 70s and 80s with GM's Caddy 4-6-8 engines. A few advanced parts arre used. The chamber is great. But nothing state of the art for the industry. Just state of the art for Mopar. Which was my original point. It's only an opinion. I'd give your advice back... try doing more reading. And not just magazines and advertising mopar hype.
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The caddy's did not work worth a crap. The MDS on the Hemi is the first one that works and it works well. Maybe you can explain why the Hemi makes more power than other engines with the same displacement? Could you do that for us?
Show me some typical everyday use production V-8's of similar displacement that match or beat the Hemi.
I'm not talking about high end engines, I'm taking the latest standard Hemi against anything of similar displacement....good luck with that....put your head back in the sand.:bootysha:

P.S. While you are at ti, show me some info on a GM "active intake". I could not find any.
thatiscorrectsmiley.gif
 
What's also important about the new Hemi (and Chrysler engineering in general) is that what makes them innovative is usually very subtle. You may look at a new Hemi and say, "Well, it's just another pushrod V8 with a little modern tech added in to pass emissions." But look at the port design, the chamber design, the simple yet very effective VCT and MDS systems. What I love about Chrysler is that they don't engineer their products to just look good or have all the hot new technology for no reason; they engineer their products to work, and they do a damn good job with the limited resources that they have. It's awesome that Chrysler makes a 2-valve pushrod V8 that is just as good as a DOHC 4-valve V8 that should be light-years ahead in efficiency. I'm sure that if Chrysler made a DOHC V-8 it would be revolutionary in its capabilities.
 
64physhy said:
If you were to stroke the 318 with a 360 crank, wouldn't the 360 heads work out better? I know there's other work involved besides just slapping in the crank and heads, such as turning the crank to fit the 318 mains and probably the pushrods to fit the crank. Am I way off base here? I'm still learning about the internal operation, but from what little I do know, it seems like it would work because the velocity would be increased from the longer stroke.
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Your on track, a 340/360 head on a stroked 318 combo will work very well. MoPar sells a 360 stroke crank with 318 mains. You can pop this 3.58 stroke crank into a 273/318 or a 340, no problem. Pistons are the issue and it becomes a cost VS. want issue.

64physhy said:
Stroked, it should be around 345-353 CID, depending on the bore if it was stroked with a 360 crank, right?
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Correct, overbore dependent, the size increases like you stated.
 
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