360 is still running hot

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autoxcuda said:
You need to use shorty the jaguar Hayden pn 2765 fan clutch.

I did that with my aluminum water pump and Champion 4 row radiator. Works fine.
Click to expand...


Tried that before I decided on the electrics. It only gave me a 1/4" more room which was about a half inch away from the fins at that point. Still made me nervous to run it. Especially if the fan flexed.
 
straightlinespeed said:
Tried that before I decided on the electrics. It only gave me a 1/4" more room which was about a half inch away from the fins at that point. Still made me nervous to run it. Especially if the fan flexed.
Click to expand...

Not sure I mentioned this in the other thread,, but if your engine moves 1/2 inch forward,, you've got more than rad damage to worry about,, you've got serious body/suspension damage as well ..

IIRC the rear trans mount is "captured", meaning the steel attached to the trans will stop when it hits the steel of the crossmember.. You bend/break that,, you've hit something HARD, and the rad will be likely be the least of your worries..

As to the elec fan mounts,, how about some nice shiny aerodynamic tubing across the opening with the fan mounted to them or similar.. Just open it up,, any flat surface not directing air INTO to rad is effectively a dam,, a big dam,, blowing air sideways across the small round areas avail, causing turbulence to the air trying to enter ... the faster you go, more deflection of flow..

As a side note,, my kid drives the snot outta his Dart, and at 1/4 in clearance, the fan hasn't touched the rad yet.. if it does,, I'll buy a new rad, and prob some body/suspension parts too.. lol

And really,, when you stated the clutch fan gave 1/2" clearance,, so it'd cost you a rad if you got that 7 blade to hit the fan,, choice seems straight-forward.. jmo

hope it helps
 
You need to unblock your airflow you bought a nice big radiator then blocked 60% of it.

You need at least a 180 stat. Ignore people that tell you to run without one. Ignore the myth that a 160 stat will make your car run cooler.

The stat regulates minimum temperature. Or, look at it this way. A 160 is open at 160+ right? A 180 is open at 180+ right? At 200+ they are both open. At 200+ the engine doesn't know or care if you have a 160 or 180.

You need to be sure your lower hose is not collapsing. Bend up a coat hanger with tight coils, about 1" spacing (this is harder than it sounds and getting it in the hose can be a pain in the *** too).
You can get springs here for about $8. This is where I got mine.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/lower-radiator-hose-spring-stainless-steel-small-block-1965-1973/p/HW769/

Are you running coolant or water? Straight water will boil over at a lower temp.

Question your radiator cap. You need a good quality cap that works and is holding the correct pressure.
 
inertia said:
Not sure I mentioned this in the other thread,, but if your engine moves 1/2 inch forward,, you've got more than rad damage to worry about,, you've got serious body/suspension damage as well ..

IIRC the rear trans mount is "captured", meaning the steel attached to the trans will stop when it hits the steel of the crossmember.. You bend/break that,, you've hit something HARD, and the rad will be likely be the least of your worries..

As to the elec fan mounts,, how about some nice shiny aerodynamic tubing across the opening with the fan mounted to them or similar.. Just open it up,, any flat surface not directing air INTO to rad is effectively a dam,, a big dam,, blowing air sideways across the small round areas avail, causing turbulence to the air trying to enter ... the faster you go, more deflection of flow..

As a side note,, my kid drives the snot outta his Dart, and at 1/4 in clearance, the fan hasn't touched the rad yet.. if it does,, I'll buy a new rad, and prob some body/suspension parts too.. lol

And really,, when you stated the clutch fan gave 1/2" clearance,, so it'd cost you a rad if you got that 7 blade to hit the fan,, choice seems straight-forward.. jmo

hope it helps
Click to expand...

You have some very valid points! I swapped out the aluminum water pump pulley that was about a 1/4" thick to a stock steel one. I may be able to get away with the mechanical fan again. When I pull my shroud to cut slots Im going to try to fit that back in there, just to satisfiy my curiousity

1968FormulaS340 said:
You need to unblock your airflow you bought a nice big radiator then blocked 60% of it.

You need at least a 180 stat. Ignore people that tell you to run without one. Ignore the myth that a 160 stat will make your car run cooler.

The stat regulates minimum temperature. Or, look at it this way. A 160 is open at 160+ right? A 180 is open at 180+ right? At 200+ they are both open. At 200+ the engine doesn't know or care if you have a 160 or 180.

You need to be sure your lower hose is not collapsing. Bend up a coat hanger with tight coils, about 1" spacing (this is harder than it sounds and getting it in the hose can be a pain in the *** too).
You can get springs here for about $8. This is where I got mine.
http://www.cjponyparts.com/lower-radiator-hose-spring-stainless-steel-small-block-1965-1973/p/HW769/

Are you running coolant or water? Straight water will boil over at a lower temp.

Question your radiator cap. You need a good quality cap that works and is holding the correct pressure.
Click to expand...

Yes, Im running distilled water and coolant at a 50/50 mix. As for the cap it came with the radiator, I could try a different cap, but I dont believe that is my issue. I will open up that shroud more and see what it does when I do that.

Thanks for the link on that spring. I will pick one up just to try it.
 
plumkrazee70 said:
Just to be clear, do not cut the fan openings larger, but rather take a hole saw and cut some openings around the fans.


http://www.autopartsdb.net/images/productimg/4/40006.jpg

Similar to this but with round holes. This way you can let air pass through your radiator at high speeds.

How does it cool in traffic or at idle?
Click to expand...

Your thinking something like this?

View attachment shroud.jpg

I was actually planning on cutting long slots and then using a thin rubber to cover them, so you dont see the jagged or funky cuts LOL. Kind of like a relief vent, similar to this pic.

View attachment shroud 2.jpg

It seems to maintain the temp, and possibly drop it a tiny bit.
 
Your engine is "designed" to run at 195* so use the 195* thermostat. If you use a 160* stat the hotter water will not sit out in the airflow long enough to transfer heat from the fins to the air passing through.

A good rule of thumb for antifreeze is 1 liter for every cylinder plus one in the overflow. It works the best in -51* and somewhere up to 125* outside temp. ie winter and summer.

and yes you need a proper shroud that will not divert air flow but rather funnel it or let it pass through. The flex fan is not a good idea, use the factory type that do not flex.

Also do a reverse system power flush every 2 years and change out your anti freeze, thermostat and rad cap for preventative maintainence.
 
I think I would eliminate that plate completely and mount the fans directly to the radiator.
 
Dorian said:
Your engine is "designed" to run at 195* so use the 195* thermostat. If you use a 160* stat the hotter water will not sit out in the airflow long enough to transfer heat from the fins to the air passing through.
Click to expand...

I should have thought about this being that I install balancing valves in heating systems. I guess it essentially it is the same thing. Hmmm something to think about.


RustyRatRod said:
I think I would eliminate that plate completely and mount the fans directly to the radiator.
Click to expand...

Ohhhh but I like my restrictive plate! I put a lot of time into it!!! LOL
 
The more I think about this the more that shroud is a issue. Here I thought I was doing the right thing with making that, and perhaps I was on the right track with it. I think it needs some fine tuning if I choose to keep it. Its suppose to be nice the rest of this week so I think I will try different options with the current shroud modified a little. Then put the mechanical fan back on and run it. I dont have a shroud for that fan so it is what it is. I guess I have to play around a bit. Would be nice if I could get both of my 10" fans to fit on the radiator but its not big enough for both of them on the fins. DOH!!!! Thank you everyone for the input!
 
Straightline - Did you confirm the gauge was correct? I chased something like this and found out my gauge was showing about 13-15 degrees hotter than the truth.

Also - agree with two other points on here. The 195* tstat and the spring. That is a nice set up, I run generally the same thing on my BB Dart (Champion setup), it keeps it cool.
 
Cazbah362 said:
Straightline - Did you confirm the gauge was correct? I chased something like this and found out my gauge was showing about 13-15 degrees hotter than the truth.

Also - agree with two other points on here. The 195* tstat and the spring, that is a nice set up. I run generally the same thing on my BB Dart (Champion setup), it keeps it cool.
Click to expand...

I have not verified the gauge was correct. I believe that's why it was suggested I use a capillary style gauge, but I have no place to install it. I do have a thermal imaging gun at work I could potentially borrow to check. I would imagine that would be a exact temp.

I could also install the stock t-stat, but I'm curious how that will work along with the electric fans if they come on at 185 and off at 165. They will always run won't they? As for that spring I'm ordering one tomorrow.
 
Straightline - I used two gauges and a thermal gun. Gun was touchy.

Reason I say about the gauge, if the fans are coming on and going off at odd times, seems there's a bit of discrepancy.

Assumption is yes, the fan will always run cause realistically you wont see 165* on a cruise except for initial warm-up or cool down. May be a good idea to test 2 or 3 tstats to find a good medium, they are cheap and seems you may have a few on hand. 160 is too low in my opinion, I would start with 180 and go to 195.

I think you have a good combination from the pictures, so it should work.

Also, some issues I have had are leaning out and timing. Both help contribute to heat creep in my BB. Are you tuned up well?

I am just trying to throw ideas out which are low cost.

Are these set up as pushers or pullers? have you tested both?

Other issue I have had are:
What kind of headers? are they coated? is there good under hood airflow.

My early exhaust/headers where restrictive and contributed to heat soaking the engine and bay. Once I changed to a better system - I had a lot of cooling improvements. Cracking my hood helped a lot during this time also, so I figured airflow is a huge issue for me. These are just my ramblings and thoughts.
 
straightlinespeed said:
Tried that before I decided on the electrics. It only gave me a 1/4" more room which was about a half inch away from the fins at that point. Still made me nervous to run it. Especially if the fan flexed.
Click to expand...

Like Inertia said if the engine is moving that much you have another serious problem. I'm running a Hayden clutch fan on my 408 and it only has 3/8" gap between it and the radiator. Been on there 3 yrs. (5000 + miles) with no issues and I run the crap out of it. Even race it at the track on occasion.

I also agree with the guys on the radiator shroud restriction. If you want to stay with electric fans I question your idea of cutting rectangular holes then covering them up with rubber flaps that can possibly restrict air flow some. I'm sure it'd be better than no holes but doubt it'd work as good as open holes. Why not get a good quality (no harbor freight junk) 1" to 1-1/4" hole saw and drill several nice neat holes in it. It'll look clean and work fine. Lot less work too.

Oh yeah, 38* total timing is probably considerably more than you need. I rarely have to run more than 34* total on a LA. That might also be contributing to the overheating issue. If your running 38* just so you can get the initial up to 15* that's not the proper way to do things.
 
Just wanted to give a update on this. I pulled the electric fan shroud and picked up the Jag fan clutch. I also swapped back to the 180* tstat. Decided to head down the road and see how it does. Runs much cooler now although I get temp creep while sitting at a stop light. I picked up a shroud this past weekend at Mopars in the park and have yet to install it, but I think that will help with the temp creeping up.

Sucks that I have those electric fans and all that but I suppose I can turn around and sell them now. Looks like that huge aluminum sheet was the whole problem.
 
Well at least it was that simple and you are not chasing ghosts.
 
Take fishy68's advice and get the total timing backed down a little. That will help more than you think. Sounds like you are getting closer. Good luck.
 
duster360 said:
Take fishy68's advice and get the total timing backed down a little. That will help more than you think. Sounds like you are getting closer. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Yep, been working on the timing issue already. Curved the dizzy, changed springs etc.. Got about 22* initial and 35 total now.
 
my 360 loves 38 deg.timing, runs 180 all day ,or stopped in traffic at 95 deg.but i do have a good radiator and shroud,with a stock clutch from 1973
 
I still need to play around a little bit with the timing to try to find that sweet spot but I think Im close. I had it at 38* total before but only had about 15* initial.
 
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