360 or 318

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cooooledart

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I've been looking for an engine to swap into my 1969 slant 6 dart. I wanted a 340, but as a high schooler I'd have a hard time affording one. I started looking for a running 360 donor car that I could pull everything out of, swap it in with some Schumacher mounts, and go. I'd bolt on a carb, manifold, and headers and maybe do a cam swap, figuring I'll do the heads later. Finding a 360 has been harder than I thought, but I keep stumbling across 318s. How much power could I get from simple bolt ons? Would it be a Worthwhile upgrade over the slant 6? Thanks in advance for all your opinions.
 
A couple of things....

You do not need shumacher mounts to put a 360 in your 69 dart, just a set of old 340 engine mounts or at least the left side 340 mount (driver's side).

Mancini racing also sells nice repo's of the old 340 mounts that look stronger than the originals.

http://www.manciniracing.com/19abv8to34re.html


Now if you want to build a 360, then I would recommend using one from 88-91. That's just before the magnum engine, but still has roller cam. You can use the old style LA engine intake and exhaust, and keep the original heads and have a good valve job, maybe some porting.

That series engine can also run a roller cam with the longer snout so you can use a mechanical fuel pump. Don't get fooled by Hughes to get the cam without the snout and use their half-assed engineered "snout extension kit", like they did to us...

Get the proper cam with the nose or send it back.

**************************************************************************

Go to this web site and do a search for a 88-91 360 near you. It lists inventory for many salvage yards across North America....

Some yards may also have a short warranty, I would recommend searching for a low mileage engine near you...

www.car-parts.com

Then go with a Wiand Stealth intake and holley 80457 carb (600 vac secondary with electric choke) and a 4 bbl gasket with a split in the middle for the dual plane intake:

Wiand Stealth Power band Idle - 6800 RPM

https://www.holley.com/products/intakes/dual_plane_manifolds/parts/8022


Holley 80457:

http://www.manciniracing.com/homo41noflca.html


A nice gasket with the split and thick for heat insulation to reduce heat getting to fuel:

http://www.manciniracing.com/hein4sqboe.html


Start there and we can give you more direction on the way...
 
What part of CA are you in? How far are you willing to drive? There's a fella in lake havasu city with a truck 360 and trans for sale for a decent price:
http://mohave.craigslist.org/pts/5149243085.html

It's a '90 roller LA 360. Pretty much perfect as far as an as-is swap depending on miles and condition and will make a great core for a decent build in the future. If I was ready to tackle it, I'd be all over this deal myself.
 
krazykuda said:
A couple of things....

You do not need shumacher mounts to put a 360 in your 69 dart, just a set of old 340 engine mounts or at least the left side 340 mount (driver's side).

Mancini racing also sells nice repo's of the old 340 mounts that look stronger than the originals.

http://www.manciniracing.com/19abv8to34re.html


Now if you want to build a 360, then I would recommend using one from 88-91. That's just before the magnum engine, but still has roller cam. You can use the old style LA engine intake and exhaust, and keep the original heads and have a good valve job, maybe some porting.

That series engine can also run a roller cam with the longer snout so you can use a mechanical fuel pump. Don't get fooled by Hughes to get the cam without the snout and use their half-assed engineered "snout extension kit", like they did to us...

Get the proper cam with the nose or send it back.

**************************************************************************

Go to this web site and do a search for a 88-91 360 near you. It lists inventory for many salvage yards across North America....

Some yards may also have a short warranty, I would recommend searching for a low mileage engine near you...

www.car-parts.com

Then go with a Wiand Stealth intake and holley 80457 carb (600 vac secondary with electric choke) and a 4 bbl gasket with a split in the middle for the dual plane intake:

Wiand Stealth Power band Idle - 6800 RPM

https://www.holley.com/products/intakes/dual_plane_manifolds/parts/8022


Holley 80457:

http://www.manciniracing.com/homo41noflca.html


A nice gasket with the split and thick for heat insulation to reduce heat getting to fuel:

http://www.manciniracing.com/hein4sqboe.html


Start there and we can give you more direction on the way...
Click to expand...

Better read it again...he has a slant 6 in it...with slant 6 K member....stock V8 mounts are not going to work.......
 
70aarcuda said:
Better read it again...he has a slant 6 in it...with slant 6 K member....stock V8 mounts are not going to work.......
Click to expand...

Oh crap, I forgot that point....

I was just referencing 273/318 vs 340/360 mounts...

Yes, then get the schumacher or find a 68-71 k-frame for a v-8...
 
Yes, a good running 318 with a 4bbl and mild cam will be thunderous compared to the slant
 
318willrun said:
Yes, a good running 318 with a 4bbl and mild cam will be thunderous compared to the slant
Click to expand...
Right , everybody overlooks the 318 , they are very good building blocks . Nothing wrong with the 318 .
 
318

Durable beyond belief. There was a reason Mopar put them in everything.

Not a version of a High Performance Engine by any stretch, though you can
make them run.

Personally, we won't build a Performance 318.
 
personally, if I was going to rebuild a motor, it would look for a 360. I f I stumbled across a good running 318, i would snag it! I know mopar guys that rather have the 318.
years back I had the local Ford mechanic build a fresh 318 for a 1 ton dodge truck, he added an RV came. he raced on the local short Nascar track. we went for a ride in it and he could not believe how that thing ran!! like a stripped *** ape!!
 
if it were me, I would look for a 360
if it were for my highschool ages son, I think I would prefer the 318

but at this point, the difference in price between a 318 and a 360 is negligible

also, keep in mind the style of most C/L adds is not always the most honest or obvious way, but the way that draws the most attention
so...some sellers might refer to a 318 LA as a 5.2 and a 360 LA as a 5.9
 
With the OP being in high school with perhaps limited experience, and wanting to do just bolt-on mods, getting either engine would work; IMO getting one in good running condition is the most important thing. Being able to get one that is actually running in a car before being pulled would be ideal; testing compression and looking for exhaust valve leaks would be great to do before buying.

With a battery and some jumper cables, the one on CL looks like it could be tested if it has the starter on it (and oil in the pan). Doesn't hurt to make a reasonable offer and sell the 727 or the 904 that is in the OP's car to recover some $$.

Long term: the 360 is nicer to have for the extra cubes. The only very minor thing is the external balance crank and the flexplate/flywheel and damper external parts but that is more something to keep in mind and not so much a barrier to performance.
 
I would also try and find the 360.
A 318 with bolt on parts and a mild cam can make a easy 275 HO to propel your car into the mid 14's with a 3.55 gear set, high 14's with 3.23/3.21's.

The biggest problem will be a decent compression ratio, so look for a later (newer) engine. Or mill your heads. A Magnum engine is an excellent candidate. Just give it the treatment you out lined and a cam to suite.
 
General Rule

Rule #1 > You can't beat Cubic Inches on the 'Street'.

Rule #2 > If you don't have Compression, your Engine will be a 'Bone'.

Oh. By the way.

I'm in the Machine Shop today, assembling a 318 for a 'Truck',
where they belong.
 
Note to all rookies.

Reguarding compression......


The increase is used to help compensate for the loss when performance cams are used that normally decrease the ratio due to the overlap of the valves being opened at the same time. Increasing the ratio helps compensate for this loss. There is no need to go crazy on getting it back or going beyond what the cam company says is required.

You will gainers power from better flowing heads, exhaust & a good intake than you will from a compression increase. In general terms a 1 point increase is worth approx. 3% on an street, street strip engine.

For iron headed guys, 9-1 is fine for most builds and 10-1 is pushing it.
1 point more for aluminum heads. This is a good general rule to follow. A little less is better than a a tad more. It is a safe zone that will keep other woes at bay. Like a bad tank of gas!
 
rumblefish360 said:
The biggest problem will be a decent compression ratio, so look for a later (newer) engine. Or mill your heads. A Magnum engine is an excellent candidate. Just give it the treatment you out lined and a cam to suite.
Click to expand...
A 318 Mag would be a good candidate. Good cam, good heads, tend to be in good condition for low price.
 
Depends what you ultimately want a 318 can be built to be just as fast as a 360 up in till a point like say 400 plus horsepower. But it's just gonna be less street friendly doing it needs more stall and gear. I'd try to find a low mileage 5.9 magnum or even a 5.2 they both make about the same hp but obviously the 360 has more torque.There both just a cam, header 4bbl upgrade away from making mid 300 horsepower.
 
318 magnum. Great engine and very cheap. Also very easy to get over 300hp. Carb/Intake/Headers and a small cam and you are there.
 
For cheap and mild, I've gone 14.40's at 96 mph with a 318 (stock bottom end), used 340 cam (free), 30 dollar set of 360 heads smog heads (worn valve guides) that we milled .040 (60 bucks), cast intake and thermoquad from a maxi van (40 bucks combo), and a cheap set of headers. Tranny was a stock 727 with stock converter, and it had 3.21 gears (open). Couldn't brake-torq the stall past 1800 rpm's. I think a 2500 stall and 3.55's the car would have gone easily into the 13's.
 
318willrun said:
For cheap and mild, I've gone 14.40's at 96 mph with a 318 (stock bottom end), used 340 cam (free), 30 dollar set of 360 heads smog heads (worn valve guides) that we milled .040 (60 bucks), cast intake and thermoquad from a maxi van (40 bucks combo), and a cheap set of headers. Tranny was a stock 727 with stock converter, and it had 3.21 gears (open). Couldn't brake-torq the stall past 1800 rpm's. I think a 2500 stall and 3.55's the car would have gone easily into the 13's.
Click to expand...

What car was that in ? ...... Car weight too ?
 
rumblefish360 said:
Note to all rookies.

Reguarding compression......


The increase is used to help compensate for the loss when performance cams are used that normally decrease the ratio due to the overlap of the valves being opened at the same time. Increasing the ratio helps compensate for this loss. There is no need to go crazy on getting it back or going beyond what the cam company says is required.

You will gainers power from better flowing heads, exhaust & a good intake than you will from a compression increase. In general terms a 1 point increase is worth approx. 3% on an street, street strip engine.

For iron headed guys, 9-1 is fine for most builds and 10-1 is pushing it.
1 point more for aluminum heads. This is a good general rule to follow. A little less is better than a a tad more. It is a safe zone that will keep other woes at bay. Like a bad tank of gas!
Click to expand...

Infecteddog said:
A 318 Mag would be a good candidate. Good cam, good heads, tend to be in good condition for low price.
Click to expand...

Yes it would be.
 
Don't forget to look for that 360 in an old Dodge van, camper, or trucks. You would need to change the oil pan and oil pickup tube. In 2011 I found an old camper with a 360 and built a budget engine. It had roughly 50k miles. I cleaned, painted, and added a cam, alum intake, holly carb. I also bought a double roller, HP oil pump, and a car pickup tube and oil pan from Summit Racing. Its a great cruise-in engine. It would smoke just a little at start up only due to the old valve seals, so a year later I bought a set of 2.02 reman heads from Indy Cylinder heads. Minus the cost of heads, I had around $500 in it. the heads were another $400 if I recall correctly.

Mine is also an original /6 car, I'm using a radiator from an air conditioned /6 car, I would suggest buying one for a V8. Check summit for the engine mounts made by Trans dapt. Half the price of others and work very well. You might also try and find a set of A body exhaust manifolds from a 318 if cost is an issue.

Here is a link about the trans dapt mounts I posted here on FABO. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=156115
 

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