367 vs 410 Engines Masters

[aaronk785]

Rpm intake, 750dp, Howard’s solid 254 260 at .050 with about .570 .575 lift with 1.6 rockers. Home ported speedmaster heads, Doug’s 1 5/8 headers with 2.5 exhaust. These parts were on both engines. 8 inch 4000 converter, 3.91 gears, low gear 904. 26 inch slicks. 408 has 9.8 comp. 340 had 10.2 comp. My combo is a better fit for the 408. I know that. 340 would have been better with 4.56 gears and more converter. Best et for the 340 was 12.84 at 106 mph. Best for 408 11.80 at 110 and I lifted right before the line.

 

[Mean416]

I thought people be interested in the video, but mentioned how I don't like how they compared these engine, then of course debate followed

True

This debate I didn't even see coming, I basically get what people mean the 410 needs better heads, but really don't makes sense to me the 367 ran out of air too and only a few hundred rpms higher and pretty much made same power so got the same out of them, but both could use better heads, but if your looking to make 425 hp this is basically what's need even the 425 hp 318 I posted wasn't too different.

Seem like everyone missed the post where they did put better heads on the 410 and gained 92 hp and 900 rpm's. I'll repost below.

This what I've been trying tell 92b.

By modern standards, all stock layout heads (edelbrocks, SM, TF, etc, ported or not) are undersized for all displacements 318+.

Compare a modern LS/Hemi/Coyote head to any stock layout Mopar head. Big difference.

 

[a-bodyguy]

This is getting silly
Unless you are full drag maybe 5% of cars
The other 95% are better off with the 410 more torque less gear and stall
A full drag 410 would not run those heads or cam maybe even that intake if you did you dont have a clue

 

[273]

This is getting silly
Unless you are full drag maybe 5% of cars

It's got nothing to do with pure drag racing, it's about accurately reading the information, then making your decision's based off that information.

The other 95% are better off with the 410 more torque less gear and stall

and yes that decision may lead you to pick 410 for the very reasons you stated, but the guy might not care about using deeper gears and higher stall or getting everything out of the 367 or 318 or 383 or whatever engine the majority doesn't like others to build.

A full drag 410 would not run those heads or cam maybe even that intake if you did you dont have a clue

People race all kinds of speeds, you don't have to race to want the performance of a 14 or 13 or 12 etc.. car.

All I'm saying if you wanted to be on a more level playfield as the 410 you need a little more stall and gears than you or what the average guy would run, say for eg. 367 & 3.91 vs 410 & 3.55, why I say optimal cause there's no further you can go. If I say 3.91 vs 3.55 then the other poster is gonna start a one up gear war until you get to optimal anyways. I'm not expecting people to run 4.30, 4.56, 4.88 or whatever squeezes the last bit of performance out of these combos.

Just when you compared these engines dyno results just include what the driveline can bring to the table especially in this case where there is no application to worry about.

 

[fishmens67]

The 367 and 410 lack bore to make any real power. lol

 

[92b]

It's got nothing to do with pure drag racing, it's about accurately reading the information, then making your decision's based off that information.

Frieburger came right out and said it was a bad decision to build the 367 after they saw how much more power the 410 made. Are you saying the 367 was a better choice for his street vehicle?

 

[92b]

and yes that decision may lead you to pick 410 for the very reasons you stated, but the guy might not care about using deeper gears and higher stall or getting everything out of the 367 or 318 or 383 or whatever engine the majority doesn't like others to build.

Sounds like you making decisions with your heart instead of your head. Bless you for sticking up for the little guy.

 

[92b]

especially in this case where there is no application to worry about.

What do you mean there is no application to worry about?

 

[273]

What do you mean there is no application to worry about?

These engines are dyno mules and not ours so there no specific application, no requirements they need to full fill. We should be able to judge there abilities/potential without bias. But seem like you need the 410 to win.

 

[92b]

These engines are dyno mules and not ours so there no specific application, no requirements they need to full fill. We should be able to judge there abilities/potential without bias. But seem like you need the 410 to win.

Watch the video. The 367 is going in Freiburger's challenger street car. At the end of the video he goes on and on about regretting building the 367 and that they should have stroked it instead. Not my opinion his opinion. And everyone else on the show.

 

[273]

Frieburger came right out and said it was a bad decision to build the 367 after they saw how much more power the 410 made.

That's their opinion.

Are you saying the 367 was a better choice for his street vehicle?

I said it like a million times, I'm not talking about streetability, which one makes more sense etc.., all I've been saying is the way they (in the video) compare these engines performance potential is wrong and if you factor in the driveline I bet there performance potential is vary similar or at least more similar than they lead you to believe.

Which one is fastest if everything was done right IDK and we won't cause I doubt anyone gonna put them to the test. All I can say they both have similar power curves therefor I bet at least capable of similar performance.

 

[Dan the man]

Frieburger came right out and said it was a bad decision to build the 367 after they saw how much more power the 410 made. Are you saying the 367 was a better choice for his street vehicle?

The 410 has 43 more cubic inches so it's natural that it should make more power. It's common sense

 

[273]

Watch the video. The 367 is going in Freiburger's challenger street car. At the end of the video he goes on and on about regretting building the 367 and that they should have stroked it instead. Not my opinion his opinion. And everyone else on the show.

And ?

 

[92b]

All I'm saying if you wanted to be on a more level playfield as the 410 you need a little more stall and gears than you or what the average guy would run, say for eg. 367 & 3.91 vs 410 & 3.55, why I say optimal cause there's no further you can go. If I say 3.91 vs 3.55 then the other poster is gonna start a one up gear war until you get to optimal anyways. I'm not expecting people to run 4.30, 4.56, 4.88 or whatever squeezes the last bit of performance out of these combos.

What ever street gear (not drag race gear) you pick for the 367 probably won't be too deep for the 410. Would you agree?

 

[92b]

I said it like a million times, I'm not talking about streetability,

You also said it's not about drag racing. So which is it?

 

[273]

The 410 has 43 more cubic inches so it's natural that it should make more power. It's common sense

Based on what logic ?

Why does a mid 70's 500 cid 8.2l Cadillac engine make less then some NA 4 cyl it's basically 4 x bigger shouldn't automatically make 4 x more power ?

 

[92b]

And ?

You said it was a dyno mules with no specific application. They say right in the video that the 367 is going in Freiburger's challenger street car.

 

[Dan the man]

Based on what logic ?

Why does a mid 70's 500 cid 8.2l Cadillac engine make less then some NA 4 cyl it's basically 4 x bigger shouldn't automatically make 4 x more power ?

I haven't seen any NA 4 cylinder make more power than the 500 Cid Cadillac

 

[273]

What ever street gear (not drag race gear) you pick for the 367 probably won't be too deep for the 410. Would you agree?

Yes, but that's an application problem not a potential one.

You said it was a dyno mules with no specific application. They say right in the video that the 367 is going in Freiburger's challenger street car.

It's not an application we got to worry about it's not our car, if the discussion was what engine makes more sense for Freiburger then fine but it hasn't been.

 

[Dan the man]

Based on what logic ?

Why does a mid 70's 500 cid 8.2l Cadillac engine make less then some NA 4 cyl it's basically 4 x bigger shouldn't automatically make 4 x more power ?

A decent built small block mopar ( and any other one for that matter) should make one horsepower per cubic inch without breaking the bank.

 

[273]

I haven't seen any NA 4 cylinder make more power than the 500 Cid Cadillac

"The 1976 Cadillac 500 cubic inch (8.2 liter) V8 engine produced 190 horsepower"

 

[Dan the man]

Based on what logic ?

Why does a mid 70's 500 cid 8.2l Cadillac engine make less then some NA 4 cyl it's basically 4 x bigger shouldn't automatically make 4 x more power ?

A 1971 500 cid Cadillac engine made 365 horsepower and 535 foot pounds of torque at 2800 rpm's

 

[fishmens67]

"The 1976 Cadillac 500 cubic inch (8.2 liter) V8 engine produced 190 horsepower"

Now that was a square engine. lol

 

[Dan the man]

"The 1976 Cadillac 500 cubic inch (8.2 liter) V8 engine produced 190 horsepower"

What did a 1976 4 banger make??

 

[273]

A decent built small block mopar ( and any other one for that matter) should make one horsepower per cubic inch without breaking the bank.

Without putting a top end on top capable of 1 hp per cid it won't.